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Old 07-13-2007, 10:54 AM   #15
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I'm not saying International should be at a campground. I think a destination location would suit my family better. Just finding a spot that can accommodate 1000 trailers with an indoor facitlity for a group to gather is not enough for us to take a week + vacation and a lot of fuel. We pick and choose rallies and events based on where they are and activities planned or nearby. With our unit, we want to go to all of them because they are held in great locations, the hosts plan fun activities and they are also close to attractions (parks, lake, hike, zoo, ball game). Plus, the meals are well thought out after an awesome happy hour, the members are just a great bunch of regular folks - and everybody gets along, never any whining or complaining, not even from the pets or from the really young or old children. Sounds like utopia. (Sounds like a membership plug)
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Old 07-13-2007, 11:52 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pam
We ran a Region Rally last year for 130 rigs, 300 guests. We arrived on site at a local fairground about 5 days prior to the start of the event. We did work lots to set up and then park. Early workers dry camped at no fee for a couple days until we set up the sites, then charged them a reduced rate to cover the cost until the rally start, when the paid the regular fee.

The idea of using a campground means, relatively little set up time. So, if members arrive a week ahead in the area to set up for activities and meetings, that's fine....they would have to pay the campsite fee then. I don't think it should be rolled into the overhead costs charged to participants. We are ALL volunteers, right?
I agree with this completely, Pam.
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:11 PM   #17
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There is a lot of merit here. Think of the fact that you could eliminate the electrical, water, sewer, security and parking volunteers. That's a pot full of people. If you take it a step further you could even allow folks to reserve their own sites. Folks like VAC could prereserve a block of sites for them. Full hookups for all! Even $50 a night isn't bad when you consider the power overhead that is charged today. The price of the rally could probably be lowered since the rental would only be for the extra facilities like tents or the meeting areas used.

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Old 07-13-2007, 12:14 PM   #18
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i think most of them try to put 1000 sites on about 5 acres.
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:23 PM   #19
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Cut the International Rally to 4 or 5 days.
Rent a convention center. Trailer parking would be off site.
Members can choose an RV park in the area, from top notch to boondocking,they control their costs.
This eliminates almost all of your volunteers, and the month long parking costs.
Offer a day pass and an event pass for members to attend the venders, semilars and any entertainment.
Young families can show up for a day or two, again cutting costs.

It could not hurt to try this approach. I think it would beat spending nine days in a hayfield such as Salem OR.
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:26 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie M
Cut the International Rally to 4 or 5 days.
Rent a convention center. Trailer parking would be off site.
Members can choose an RV park in the area, from top notch to boondocking,they control their costs.
This eliminates almost all of your volunteers, and the month long parking costs.
Offer a day pass and an event pass for members to attend the venders, semilars and any entertainment.
Young families can show up for a day or two, again cutting costs.

It could not hurt to try this approach. I think it would beat spending nine days in a hayfield such as Salem OR.
Great idea! The eight days we attend now is pretty long....actually much longer than my attention span! We don't usually stay in one place more than 3-4 days when we are camping or caravanning.
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:38 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rock60
i think most of them try to put 1000 sites on about 5 acres.
I think you are optomistic on the number of units per acre. RV parking gets 40-50 parking spots per acre and this is with no space between units. Don't forget the driveway take a lot of space.

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Old 07-13-2007, 12:44 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rock60
i think most of them try to put 1000 sites on about 5 acres.
Based on 1000 units on 5 acres, each unit would get 217.8 square feet. That would be about 27 x 8 feet. No room for the TV and you can't open the door of the trailer.

I know that they do squeeze them in, but I think 5 acres might be a little low.
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Old 07-13-2007, 01:02 PM   #23
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I just read where the EAA flyin in Oshkosh is expecting 40,000 campers this year at Camp Scholler.

Now that's big!

My parents are there right now doing Volunteer prep work, they have only missed 1 year since the flyin was in Rockford.
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Old 07-13-2007, 01:03 PM   #24
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It seems to me if the WBCCI used a camping resort like Lakewood, there wouldn't be a need for so many volunteers and there wouldn't be a need for 5 weeks of set up.

I think the cost for a FMCA rally is comparable to a WBCCI rally and they use a professional event planner with professional entertainment. I know they use fairgrounds also, but it seems to me that their organization is much more efficient.

I would be interested in attending an International Rally at Lakewood because there would be plenty of amenities to keep my kids occupied while I did the rally stuff. My wife and I could take turns with the seminars, etc. that interested us and switch off looking after the kids. I bet you would get a lot more families attending a rally at Lakewood than you do in an amenity-less field where only the parents have planned activities. Just MHO.
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Old 07-13-2007, 01:43 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie M
Cut the International Rally to 4 or 5 days.
Rent a convention center. Trailer parking would be off site.
Members can choose an RV park in the area, from top notch to boondocking,they control their costs.
This eliminates almost all of your volunteers, and the month long parking costs.
Offer a day pass and an event pass for members to attend the venders, semilars and any entertainment.
Young families can show up for a day or two, again cutting costs.

It could not hurt to try this approach. I think it would beat spending nine days in a hayfield such as Salem OR.
Charlie, How 'bout a rally in Vegas? Would be worth the drive.
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Old 07-13-2007, 01:55 PM   #26
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redefining the international...

it's hard to understand what the international is...

and how it's run,

without attending at least one for many days.

looking at the official rally booklet helps some. borrow a booklet and read.

the international ISN'T a big camping party.

it's a legislative event with officer installations and unit/region/int ceremony.

social things happen around the principle functions.

---

azf' you ask 'why so many volunteers for so long?'

well, having volunteered for 3 committees (at 1 rally) it's like this....

1-2 hours of "work activity" every 3-4 days or so for the month and sometime much less. honest!

then depending on specific committee function, this may increase or decrease once the general membership starts to arrive.

even then folks usually work less than 3 hours every few days.

tours/day trips/excursions/luncheons are scheduled for the volunteers during the weeks prior...

wine tours, bus tours, visits to local toursist things and so on....

so along with the free camping, volunteers have a slate of activities before the offical event.

it's a group of retirees with days to fill

using a resort/campground might eliminate some committees but i doubt it.

there are 100 or so committees ranging from sign making, to bulletin boards, to morning prayer, to card games, to line dancing, to photography,to board games, to teen queen and so on...

don't forget the temporary 'post office' and wally radio and ribbons and lpgas detector committees and on and on...

most of the event is organized and structured to PERPETUATE it own function and purpose.

try reducing the committee structure for the u.s. congress...

the wb'ers build a little city then take it down....

timing? the bylaws state it must include canada day and independence day.

so july 1 and july 4 must fall during the event.

what i read in this thread is..."lets have a great big rally!"

i'm all for this big campout, it would be fun,

but the wbcci isn't an integral part of any of this.

AND most lifetime/regular wb' international rally go'ers...

are looking for a VERY INEXPENSIVE venue....

it's not a fmc or good sam or oshkosh, or sturgis like event...

attending ONE international is a nice chance to see several 100 silver units in one location...

it's a nice one time visual, for a few days.

i'm all for a great big annual airstream camping event, so lets plan one!!!!!

it isn't the international and really doesn't need to be....

MOST a/s owners don't belong to the wbcci, would you want to exclude ALL of these a/s owners?

cheers
2air'

imo bigger isn't necessarily better, it's just bigger.

beyone 100-200 units this becomes an exercise in 'fema' style living and all that goes with massive gatherings...
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Old 07-13-2007, 03:39 PM   #27
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I'm hesitant to discuss these issues because I'm sure somebody is certain to flame me for "attacking the volunteers", but there are several points 2air' makes that bring up rhetorical questions for me.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that after the '08 International that we should abandon the current format and completely change the way things are done, but a lot is discussed on this forum about how the WBCCI should change and how it must change if it is going to survive. I have never attended and International Rally, this is true. I realize that I speak hypothetically when I review the schedule of events from a previous International and see nothing that my 7 and 10 year old boys would be interested in. There may be other boys their age they could play with at these rallies, but they would be bored out of their skulls if they happened to be on the opposite side of the rally field from where the other kids their age were parked by the volunteers. This is why I am disinclined to attend an International.

I agree that from what I have read, the International is more of a conference or convention than it is a rally, but what was described above for the volunteers leading up to the International sounds a lot like a rally to me. It seems that the volunteers are looking for a free five week rally or free five week vacation in exchange for investing a very few hours of work a couple of times a week during those five weeks. As was said, it is retired folks with days to fill and from what was described, they fill those days with rally activities. It seems to me that for the volunteers it is an annual "great big camping event" for five weeks at the expense of the non-volunteering members.

Now don't get me wrong. I don't begrudge the volunteers. It just seems to me that there could be a more efficient way of running the International perhaps with fewer volunteers and maybe condensing that five weeks to two weeks or something. Perhaps if there was a more family friendly environment to have the International in, there would be more families attending and with more families attending there would be more revenues from International Rally fees to cover the cost of the extra camping fees and using an event planning firm and there would be less need for a bulletin board committee, etc. But as it stands now, there is a lot of dissension among the ranks of the newer members when it comes to the special perks the volunteers get like special parking and special seating at the events during the international.

When it comes to cost, I looked at the cost of a single ocean front camp site at Lakewood as a potential destination for my family. This is one of the more expensive categories of camp sites and the cost during August would be $50/night with an additional $5/night for Friday and Saturday. This includes up to 50 amp service and sewer hook-up. I gleaned somewhere in one of the discussions that the cost per night for a trailer at Perry was $35 as charged by the Fairgrounds. Add to that $135 for 30 am service and you aren't that far off in price for the 9 days or so of the International. Lakewood offers a discount for rallies so you might could even come out cheaper per site and have full hook-ups, in-door and outdoor swimming pools, plus 62 channels of cable! Add the cost of the event planner, professional entertainment, and, say, 50 units for two weeks of volunteers and amortize that over 1,000 camp sites and you might only be $20-$25 per couple more in rally fees for the entire International vs. the $135 for 30 amp service and having to use the "honey wagon" at some fairgrounds.
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Old 07-13-2007, 03:51 PM   #28
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In Canada the Pinery PP has more than 1,000 sites.
The Pinery ABSOLUTELY ROCKS!
A phenomenal campground!
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