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wasagachris · 07-29-2010, 06:38 PM

Well today I decided to dive in and start removing the banana wrap and belly pan. Much to my surprise the floor that I thought was solid was rotten at the rear curbside. From inside the unit it felt solid. I started at the rear because that is where I suspected the most frame or crossmember and outrigger damage. The pink s**t was sopping wet and has wicked up to rot the floor. The trailer is leaking at the back bumper cover inwards. It seemed to flow only to the curbside. I pulled the wrap from the roadside and the floor there is fine. I only pulled the wrap from the bumper to the wheels on the curbside so far. Frame is pretty good. It is rotten around the jack and in between the trailer shell and the bumper. All the outriggers look ok to me. POR-15 will save them.
Question does anyone know if the wrap is riveted under the entry door frame. Can I remove it without having to pull the door and frame. It seems to tuck up under the lower part of the door frame. At the water heater the wrap was also just up under the lower lip of the water heater. I remembered that when I changed the heater the wrap was loose under there so it just slipped out.I need to pull the wrap on the curbside all the way to the front next to inspect the outriggers and frame. I know that the step outriggers are shot (on order) but I have to see how bad the rest are.
Just a few quick shots. Its quite surprising how bad things actually are once you open them up. My floor felt great and strong but was actually rotten.

kx2and2 · 07-29-2010, 08:03 PM

Hi wasagachris,

I feel your pain, I too thought I had a strong floor and the PO (a friend) told me he had beat on them with a hammer and were solid, as the laminate floor had to go I began to peel the glued not floating floor up and low and behold I can see the pink 's**t' also from the hole.

Will follow this thread for tips..

wasagachris · 07-29-2010, 08:31 PM

I had a new friend Doug drop by and apply two part epoxy to the sections that I knew were soft. I thought all was good. This section did not even feel soft from the inside. After I pulled out the insulation the bottom of the wood in this section just fell away in great chunks. As soon as I touched the wood from underneath it just peeled off. I think I have no choice but to replace the back section of the floor.

worksology · 07-29-2010, 09:50 PM

How difficult was it to remove the banana wrap/belly pan and what tools were required?

I just bought a 2007 27' International, and after reading several threads on here about the rear bumper leaking on many similar models, I'm inclined to investigate my trailer's "current situation" as much as possible. I've got two pages of to-dos and this seems like a pretty important one to add to the list, just in case.

Josh

wasagachris · 07-29-2010, 10:52 PM

Worksology: there is a thread from someone with a new airstream that fixed the problem like this. look under bellypans & banana wraps & do a search. I used a drill with one eigth bit to drill out rivets holding on lower trim rail. This will expose rivets holding banana skins and wrap. Drill them out then look underneath and drill out rivets holding skins and wraps to belly pan. Some rivets were larger and still had there pins sticking out. I had to chisel the heads off them. Mine were qiute old and badly corroded as was the skins and wrap. Yours should still be like new- a lot easier. If you have no floor rot just reinstall everything and seal up the gap between the bumper door plate and the rear skin. Seal up the upper edge of the trim rail as well to stop any water from getting down there. You should also use sealant on all rivets to stop water from entering thru there. Your unit will have chipboard floors and will not last long if it gets wet. Good luck I hope you have no damage. Airstream should sell seperation H to seal the rear end and fix this problem LOL.

worksology · 07-30-2010, 01:15 AM

Thanks wasagachris! I don't have any real reason to suspect damage on our trailer, but it sounds like most people, including yourself, are surprised at the extent of the damage once they get inside. As a new Airstream owner, I'm just excited to learn as much as possible about our new home by risking irreparable damage by undertaking as many projects as possible.

Can all these rivets you're drilling out be replaced by Olympics with a manual hand riveter? Will you need to shave any heads, or are they all underbody/under the lower trim? I don't have any of this equipment and would prefer to buy as little as possible, but I still want to tackle it efficiently. Thanks again.

worksology · 07-31-2010, 02:52 AM

After a good deal of research, I have answers to my own questions:

No Olympic-type rivets are necessary for the belly pan/banana wrap, so no head shaving! Also, most of the rivets are the standard 1/8 rivet, but like you mentioned, you'll run across several 3/16" rivets with a larger flange. I wonder if you had bumped your drill bit up to a #11 (or 3/16") if you wouldn't have had to chisel any heads off?

Two little questions if anyone's got answers:

1) Are the 1/8" rivets used on the belly pan the same as the ones used on the interior panels?

2) Everyone says to coat the replacement rivet in Vulkem when reattaching, but will Sikaflex do just as good?

**azflycaster** · 07-31-2010, 07:19 AM

I use these rivets on the belly pan:
Large Flange Rivets

I do not see any reason to seal the belly pan rivets when you install them.

wasagachris · 08-03-2010, 02:46 AM

I got some time today to remove more of the wrap and remove the wet insulation. Pulled all the wrap from the curbside from the door to front and the wrap from the front to the wheels on the roadside. There is extensive damage to the frame rail itself at the door and for a few feet in front of it on the curbside. There is aslo damage to the outriggers there as well. A couple of the outriggers on the roadside has damage as well. The pictures are of the damage to the curbside, by the time I got the wrap off the roadside it was too dark to get any good shots. I hope to get the rest of the wrap on the roadside down tomorrow and try to get the belly pan out also.

wasagachris · 08-03-2010, 10:35 PM

Well I got the rest of the wrap off today. Very dissapointing the main frame rail on the roadside is rotten around the fresh water tank. Looks like I'm going to have to pull the tank to repair the frame. I also dropped the front belly pan or that is to say after removing a few rivets it fell out. What a mess. I think a whole family of chipmunks has been living under there. The rear pan is not going to be as easy. I've chiseled off all the rivets but the pan is only half down and it is wedged under the axles and won't budge. I had to give up and leave the campground in a hurry this afternoon. I got a call from the nursing home informing me that I should come over right away because they think my step father is dying. I spent several hours there and just got back. He is stable for now and my mother is coping. I just can't be away from the business right now. I posted a few pics of the front pan and will post more of the rear pan and the frame damage tomorrow. So much for camping in my a/s this winter.

wasagachris · 08-04-2010, 11:20 AM

Well I got the rear belly pan out today. What a F&^%$#ng mess. The pan was sandwiched between the frame and the axle brackets. I will have to drop the axles in order to reinstall the new pan. One bit of good news the crossmembers are all fine. The ones between the black and the fresh tank above the axles are shiny and black, just like they were when installed 37 yrs ago. QC issue though when they dropped the floor onto the frame the small 2" duct to heat the black tank box was crushed between the frame and the floor. Never did a bit of good except to heat the area between the two tanks. I posted some more pics of the frame ,outriggers and the crushed duct. A/S is now mobile again and has to be moved to make way for a park dinner this weekend. I will be gone for a couple of days to make final arrangements for my step father. Will post more next week after I try to drop the fresh water tank. From what I read this will be no treat as well.

kx2and2 · 08-05-2010, 01:05 PM

Hi wasagachris,

Sorry to hear about your step-dad.

AS seems to be in rough shape - I suspect that I will have the same issues, found that I have a leak that has rotted the plywood along the front window and door frame.

Amazing though how some of the frame is completely rusted out and other parts good as new....

Kx2

wasagachris · 08-10-2010, 06:08 PM

Well it's been a few days since I posted anything new. Friday I was dealing with my stepfather's funeral arrangements.
John Thomas Spence DOB Jan 23 1928 DOD Aug 5 2010 RIP.
In memory of my step father I am naming my A/S Spencer.
The welder was in over the weekend to look at the frame repairs. MUCH MUCH worse than I thought. 20' of main frame rail rotten on road side and 12' rotten on curbside. This minor repair to the frame and renovation has just become a shell off restoration. I ordered new crossmembers and outriggers yesterday. One of my campers is going to make the new frame rails for only $150. The welder thinks about $750 to do the welding so plus parts the new frame should be about $1700. Not a bad price I think. However I now have a heck of a lot more work to do in order to lift the shell off. Anyone have any good links to threads for this. I have been searching but the thread search never pulls up good results. I started pulling apart the rest of the interior today, yesterday we were rained out. I pulled out the pantry and wardrobe on the roadside as well as the kitchen counter, furnace, water pump and convertor. A couple of bathroom walls came out also. All that is left is the shower and water heater. Still have to pull all the lower skins inside and drop the tanks(3) and start drilling out rivets and grind off all the elevator bolts. I've added afew pics of the interior so far.

wasagachris · 08-15-2010, 07:15 PM

Well Since I lasted posted I have finished gutting Spencer. It took two days to remove the kitchen, bathroom, wardrobe and pull the lower skins. I only got the sawhorse built on Friday because of business concerns. I still have to run the campground while I'm doing all this. Saturday was very productive. One of my campers helped me to crib all the shell and we got the outside skins on the roadside freed up. Today I got the curbside skins released and drilled out all the rivets for the front and rear holddown plates. I then released all the bolts holding the shell to the floor. They were either ground off with the grinder or just snapped off with vise grips. The shell is now about 6" off the floor using two bottle jacks and still has to go up another 10 to 12 inches more to rest on the sawhorses and clear the wheelwells. It groaned and bonged a couple of times but all went well. Once the shell is resting securly on the horse I can then pull the frame and floor out from underneath.My nerw frame rails are here. Made by the same camper who helped me on Saturday. I'm just waiting for the crossmembers and outriggers now. Of course I still have to remove all the tanks and the floor and cut the new floor pieces yet. I will do this while I wait for the parts to arrive.

wasagachris · 08-16-2010, 02:29 PM

Well it's official I now have a two piece trailer. It only took a couple of hours to carefully jack and block the shell. The cribbing on the shell is bolted to the 4x4's and the front and rear c channel is also attached to the 4x4's. The 4x4's are attached to the sawhorses with appropriately called hurricane brackets. I plan to add some weight to the 4x4's to make sure it doesn't go anywhere. It's very windy here today and the shell is very secure and not shifting at all in the wind. It is also sheltered by my house and workshop so I don't think it will blow over. I need to wait for the 4x8 sheets of marine grade plywood to arrive before I can cut the new floor. Once the new floor pieces are cut I can remove the old floor and start removing the tanks. I sure hope my frame parts come soon. I thought this would be very hard to do but if you take it one step at a time everything works well. More to follow -lots more.

wasagachris · 08-16-2010, 05:02 PM

I'm itching to keep moving so I crawled under the frame and disconnected the drain valves and piping. I had to grind off the rusty bolts on the angle iron holding the black tank in. I supported it with a bottle jack until all the angle iron was free. Then just gently lowered the tank down and removed it. I finally got some good news from under the trailer. The black tank and it's galvanized box are in good shape. Just a little rust at the valve end of the box. POR-15 will fix that. I found a mouse nest inside the galvanized box. He had quite a home set up in there. Three rooms, a bedroom, a kitchen full of nuts as well as his own bathroom. Given that the tanks are heated as well he had central heating also. Tommorrow I will try to get the other two tanks out and prep the floor for the new one by removing the remaining double C channel still on the floor.

wasagachris · 08-18-2010, 05:47 PM

The frame is now ready to go to the welder. The floor is completely off and the tanks and steps are now out. My new marine grade plywood will arrive in the morning from the local building yard. I will cut the new panels and test fir them before sending out the frame. I have the new main frame rails but am still waiting for crossmembers and outriggers to arrive from the mothership. Inland Andy ordered them two weeks ago but we have not heard word one from them yet.

wasagachris · 08-19-2010, 06:38 PM

The plywood arrived this aftrenoon and after about 3 hrs the new floor is cut. I can't install it yet because I don't have a new frame to mount it to. Stll waiting for parts from the mothership. The other parts and new axles were promised to arrive late this afternoon but didn't show up. I guess that's what you get when you live in the middle of nowhere. United Parcel Smashers freight will not come here. They farm it out to a local courier company. It has taken 10 days for the freight to come from California. I could have driven there myself and been back by now.

The welder is standing by Mig in hand ready to start assemling the frame but I don't have parts.

In the mean time I will paint and seal the new floor boards both top and bottom and the sides too.

kx2and2 · 08-19-2010, 08:20 PM

Hi wasagachris,

Looking good, you make it look sooo easy......

I am afraid to start..

Personally I am hoping I can just patch. Time will tell, I have to seal the leaks first......

Ken

wasagachris · 08-19-2010, 09:04 PM

Hi Ken I sure hope you don't have to replace the entire floor or frame like I have to. I've been at this for 2 months now, most every day and I'm still tearing it apart. The plywood was $126 per sheet x 7 plus HST. Just under $1000 for the floor alone. I thought my floor was solid and had just a little rot in the rear. Once I pulled the shell I found that the rear sheet was completly rotten under the channel. That sheet was the hardest to cut because I had virtually no pattern to trace from. The front curved sheet was also very rotten but I was able to get a good pattern from it. By far the worst was the rear from the leaking in through the rear bumper cover. The rear aluminum panel will have to be replaced aswell as the rear steel holddown plate. The rear c channel is aslo corroded but I am going to try and save it. My fram was very rotten at the rear and also by the steps and beside the water tank on the road side the frame rail has only the top section of the C shaped rail left. I'm going to need to patch it just to pull the frame 3kms to the welding shop. I'm afraid it will fall apart otherwise and snap. Good luck with your leaks. Where is your's leaking from?