Help pricing 1990 25' Excella

[nukesul]

This is my third attempt to post. Not sure what I'm doing wrong.

I'm looking at a 1990 25' Excella at a local dealer in Ontario. The asking price is C$27k. (~US$20k I guess). Their original price was $32k. This still seems a bit high but on the other hand you don't see a lot of these units advertised up this way. The trailer looks like it was well cared for and everything is working. It has a new stove and comes with solar panel recharging. The interior is in good condition and even the couch looks pretty good. Is this way out of line? I'd appreciate hearing from some fellow Canadians since I think the prices run higher for all trailers up here.
Thanks

[Happycampers]

Hello , Welcome to this forum.. we are also in Ontario.. Peterborough to be exact. This asking price could be a little lower.. I would be sure and check under the beds and in the bottom of any compartment that you can see in with a flashlite .. checking for moisture of any kind.. we have even seen a 1996 A/s in a dealer's lot in Michigan that had a wet floor in front of the sofa. If this has a front sofa, pull out the bins underneath and have a really good look. Check bottoms of the windows for mold etc. I would start a little lower and go from there.. saw a 1985 for 15,000 up this way last year.. would not have traded our 1976 Tradewind for it.. If you don't mind a little work an older one is great.. all in what you want to put into it.. Good Luck... Annie

[05ModPod]

Not sure if this will help...We were looking at a wrek (literally at the wreckeres had tipped over on a jacknife situation) It was a 1999 28 Excella.

We went about pricing out the repairs from both Airstream Corp and the only Dealer in ONT - well to do the job was going to be $40K+ but the parts would have been around $16K We checked out another RV dealer in the area who has a personal interest in the Airstreams and they let me know the List/Wholesale on a 99/28/E was $20KCND

So in my opinion - it all depends on how "greedy" the dealer wants to be. I am no expert in the RV market but do spend many hours "hunting" and dreaming of the newer ones......From what I have seen in the past year the market is out there for the new models and trade ups as well so prices are holding well at asking give or take 10-12%- at the other end of the market for the older late 60's early 70's the prices have gone up or should I say skyrocketed with those places that are more accessible to sell to a captive crowd - such as E-bay and other individual forum members who might luck out on a poor unsuspecting sole (with money to burn!) However for those who have the time and like to drive around searching barns, and peoples yards and even the arbituaries - yikes!!!!! then there are vintage units out there being sold for incredibly low prices (hmmmm like that 61 Overlander!!!!!)

The market in between such as what you are looking for seems to be flooded - 80-90's units there are a lot out there and most are going in the range of $12-18KUSD

Too much!!! Try and get the base it then add for each of the options, ad in a reasonable commission on the sale and see what FMV you come up with - drop about 10% of that and make your offer - or you could hold out and buy in the states. (It is very easy and if you do your homework and get all the paperwork ahead of time the export/import process is versy simple.)

Try calling Peterborough RV and talke to Christie - see if she can give you the wholesale on that rig.

Good Luck

And welcome to the forums.

[nukesul]

Thanks for the advice so far. Sounds like the two of you agree this may be a little on the high end. Any others done any research on this size? It seems to be hard to find much of anything on the internet right now. Do either of you Ontario folks have any advice on other places I should be looking?

[Richard Vroom]

I am a fellow Canadian from Nova Scotia and have noticed that prices are especially high in Ontario for Airstreams. I would say that they are extremely high at CanAm RV. I recently purchased my 86 25' Sovereign in Alabama for $8900 and thought that was high. I have now done a total renovation and have put in new China toilet, granite countertops, changed the carpets and curtains so it is now like new. I now have about $14,000 CDN invested and would not want anything else. I tow with a Toyota 4 Runner with no problem. To find my Airstream, I spent two months searching the internet and has a ton of photos sent to me before going for this one. I think you will do much better buying in the southern US, particularly in Florida where there seems to be quite a turnover with old folks selling their units. I feel that units from 85 to 96 are more solid than new ones and are at reasonable prices. The 25'ers are always harder to find.
Good luck and come down for a visit when you get one.
Richard

[66Overlander]

Richard,
Sounds like you bought on the low end of the price curve for a 80's 25 footer in the States. But then again, it sounds like your unit needed some work.

We recently bought an '85 25' Sovereign for a little more than you paid, but ours didn't need much (that we're aware of yet, anyway). I'd say the US asking prices for an '85 to '94 25 footer are generally from $10K - $18K US, somewhat independent of year of manufacture, with newer units costing a little more. Certainly the prices published on the NADA web site are way too low, if you've looked at very many actual ads for comparison. Of course, anything at a dealer will cost a little more, but it mainly comes down to condition and options. It seems that things like awnings all around and solar panels usually increase the price a little.

What this means to Canadian prices, I am not quite certain, except that they will be more than in the US. Not sure if this is due to the exchange rate, import duties, or the general scarcity of Airstreams up there.

[Cedars]

Don't forget to check the NADA guides.... they are also good for Canada. Start here:
http://www.nadaguides.com/autohome2....wPr=0&wPg=2111
Along the top directory bar is a tab marked Recreation Vehicles, click on that to get started.
Let us know what the guide has to say about prices in your area!
I was gonna try to put the info using a friends postal code for Manilla, but couldn't get it to work for me! Still a little confused how that works.... is it letter, number, letter, space, number, letter, number? She has two 0's or O's in her code and darned if I can remember which!

Elizabeth in Iowa

[nukesul]

Richard and 66Overlander.
What is the layout of a mid 80's Sovereign? Are they along the same line as a classic or Excella with rear twins, mid bath and front couch? That is essentially the design I want as I need sleeping for four. I agree the NADA guides seem low though and I can't find much our there being advertised right now. When I punch in the 90's trailer NADA it is US$10k and I have never seen one for as little as that up this way. I also worry that if I wait till the spring I will be in with everybody else who is buying which makes finding a deal that much harder. I am willing to travel however Florida may be a little on the far side unless the deal is really good. Gas alone would add $1500 and I'd need 5 days travel time.
Richard, how much could I expect to pay for duty on a used trailer? How are the taxes assessed? That's the worst part of buying from a dealer since the governments grab both taxes.

[Richard Vroom]

The Sovereign and Excella Layouts are similar, but the Excella has solid wood cabinetry and would be much more desirable. I have two singles in the bedroom and the double pull out sofa in the dining area. I do not have a fixed dining table but we would rather have more space to move around in the dining area. Here are photos of my Sovereign - http://www.airforums.com/photo...00&ppuser=2247
The tax on the trailer is calculated on the billing amount. If the bill is for $6000 CDN , you would pay $480. It is 8% of the actual bill. It took me only ten minutes at the border to get throuigh and pay the duty. I was shocked at how low it was. In the US, I paid no tax, but just got a transit permit for about $20 good for 10 days. We then had a holiday in Florida before coming home. This was good as we could go to an Airstream dealer to get little things fixed and everything running smoothly. When buying, I sent $500 to hold the trailer after seeing the photos, and told him I would be there in a week. Most of my friends here with Airstreams have bought them in Florida. There were some good deals when the Melbourne Airstream park closed but many were over 30' long.
Richard

[j54mark]

Originally Posted by nukesul

Richard and 66Overlander.
What is the layout of a mid 80's Sovereign? Are they along the same line as a classic or Excella with rear twins, mid bath and front couch?

It appears to me that there were both side and rear bath coaches produced until sometime in the mid to late 80's, at which time the rear bath disappeared in the 25' and longer units. I believe 1985 was the first year for the side bath 25'.

Size for size, the side bath 80's coaches were essentially the same layout as the current Classic with a choice of rear twins or island full size bed. Six inches narrower, of course. The one exception, of which I am aware, is the 25' side bath with rear corner bed. This comparatively rare floorplan was made into the mid 90's, at least, but is no longer offered. See http://www.airforums.com/photo...cat/500/page/1 for this floorplan.

Mark

[RichardT]

I will sell you a Superb 1988 29' Excella for wayyyyy less and it is in awsome shape and a 1 owner unit. I will even put you up in North Carolina in the mountains for a few nights. it takes me about 12 hours to get to Buffallo NY.
I can also get you a 1989 Squarestream in excellent condition 29' (5800pounds i think)

[armistjb]

Richard:

Did you have any problems bringing a used unit into Canada? I have also been looking and found them to be hard to find except at Can-Am RV .

Any info you could provide would be helpful.

John

[66Overlander]

Here is my take on Airstream floor plans from Mid '80's thru 1994 or so.

21' - Avail '92 - '94 - Rear Corner Bath & Rear Corner Double,
Front could have a Goucho or Dinette

25' - Avail '85 - '94+ - Side Bath - Rear Corner Double or Rear Twins,
changing over to Rear Island Queen or Twins at some point
Earlier 25's (70's) would all be Rear Bath w/ Mid Double or Twins

27' - Avail '80 - '88 - Rear Bath - Mid Double or Twins
Carryover floorplan from the 70's, discontinued in '87 or '88
A few mid '70 models were Side Bath, all others before & after
were Rear Bath

29' - Avail '84 - '93 - Side Bath - Rear Corner Double (?) or Rear Twins,
changing over to Rear Island Queen or Twins at some point
Earlier 29's (70's) could be Side or Rear Bath

31' - Avail '80 - '94+ - Side or Rear Bath - Double or Twins,
changing over to a Queen or Twins at some point,
at some point becoming exclusively Side Bath

32' - Avail '86 - '93 - Side Bath - Rear Corner Double or Rear Twins,
changing over to Rear Island Queen or Twins at some point,
available with or w/o a dinette, have seen a couple with two doors

34' - Avail '82 - 94+ - Triple Axle - Too Big - Haven't Paid Attention

I know I have seen Rear Corner Doubles on 25' & 32' models. Based upon this I am speculating that they were also available on 29' & 31' models, at least in the mid 80's.

I hope this helps. I may may have missed a detail or two, but this should be close.

[Richard Vroom]

It is extremely easy to bring an Airstream trailer into Canada. I bought it in the US with a transit permit, and if it is 15 years old, there is no duty, only Fed Sales tax of 8% on the value of the bill. It took me 10 minutes at the border to clear everything through. Prices and availablility in Canada make it well worthwhile to shop in the US.
Richard

[05ModPod]

Originally Posted by Richard Vroom

It is extremely easy to bring an Airstream trailer into Canada. I bought it in the US with a transit permit,Richard

First not all states will offer transit permits - so a bill of sale notarized and a clear title is required. Also;
Some people forget that if you have a US address things are much easier to obtain transit permits - for those who do not have a US address you can not obtain these documents - unless you are using a false or relatives address.

Originally Posted by Richard Vroom

and if it is 15 years old, there is no duty, only Fed Sales tax of 8% on the value of the bill.Richard

It is not that simple as being exempt from the tax. The age exempts the Vehicle from the Vehicle Import Program which has a price tag of $180.00 plus $100.00 for any Airconditioners installed. It also exempts you from the Vehicle Verification program once in Canada that requires you to take the vehicle for certification within a certain period. So unless you obtain the appropriate VIP form and have it signed correctly by the Customs Officer then you could have some issues on your hands when it comes time to getting it licensed in Canada. (NOT ALL CUSTOM OFFICERS ARE WELL INFORMED!) so it is a good idea to have your papers in order. Thus at the border you will pay the GST 7% (Not 8%) and at the time of registration within your own province you will then pay the Provincial Tax (Ontario 8%) (So if you know the person a lower bill of sale is a good thing to ask for based on the Vintage Airstream pricing schematic that makes the price easily justified)

Originally Posted by Richard Vroom

It took me 10 minutes at the border to clear everything through. Richard

no questions here - it probably did but it helps with what you are starting with in the first place - where you bought it, did you have clear title, did you know what to ask for - did you have a tuned in officer at your gate and so on.



So all you forum members just be wary of what you read - it may have been very simple for Richard but not all cases are the same - and if you do not do your homework you can easily be entering Canada with you new purchase left behind at the border!

Originally Posted by Richard Vroom

Prices and availablility in Canada make it well worthwhile to shop in the US. Richard

Richard is definately on top of it here! there are so many more available in the States and even more in the Southern States. But the best buys are the mid central to western states - no rusty frames - just nice and dry trailers with bad tires.

[nukesul]

Thanks for all the replies. Seems to be a general consensus that the price is too high at least. I think I will have another look anyhow and take one out for a test tow. I'm curious to see just how well these trailers tow as that is a large part of their claim to fame and a big reason for me wanting one. I guess if they won't come down enough I'll just continue my search.

Cheers

[armistjb]

Nukesul:

Keep us posted.

I am considering a trip up to Can-Am in the spring and hope to take a test run as well.

John

[nukesul]

John
Thought I would update on our trip to Can-Am. First of all I felt the folks at Can-Am were very helpfull. I'm sure anyone that chooses to deal throught them will be satisfied. I went down to take a better look at the 1990 and also to look at an 89. I went over the 90 a lot closer than the first time. I started to find a few problems but overall the trailer seemed to be in reasonable condition. There were not a lot of interior upgrades done over the years so things were showing their age. I ruled it out soon after when I found some floor wood rot near the front side. I mentioned this to the salesman and he said that it would be fixed. He often referred to a 200+ point check that would be carried out. I never did find out exactly what points would be checked and to what extent the repairs would be done. In the case of the floor would they change that section and check everywhere else? Would they have fixed it if I didn't find it? I figure that they would have to pull up all the flooring to do a real check and I'm sure they didn't have plans to do that. I did take the 90 out for a test drive which made the trip worthwhile. When we got back i went over the 89 some more. I thought I may get this one for a little less. He then informed me that it would actually be a $1000 more. I think we have decided not to buy either. Thanks to everyone who replied.

[Over59]

Don't give up. Just take your time. The more you look the more you learn. Most of us learned after the fact, some more than once. I knew I was doing the full redo going in with the 59. You don't want to end up there with a trailer you paid for thinking all is well. You are right about not seeing many trailers available in the 10-20 year old range. I guess they're keepers.

[armistjb]

Nuksul:

Thanks for the update and tip about the floor in the 1990. I had communicated by email with a salesman earlier and he indicated that this was one of the better ones and at the time was asking $31,000, and $29k for the 1989.

If I make the trip in the spring and these are still available, I will certainly focus on the 200 point check.

John