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Old 01-20-2005, 11:01 PM   #1
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airstream math doesn't add up- 2005 Classic!!

hello folks

i'm enjoying reading the post here. the collective knowledge can make us all more informed consumers. i've learned alot about batteries, solar and all things electric (i'll stick with a genset for now) while just sorting throught the hitch related issues.....lots of passion on this topic.

had i known all of these things 25 years ago, i might never have made it to the purchase stage of that first airstream mh....

so i have 2 questions

first the sort one:
1. are there plans for a 75th anv. model and if so when? seems this would be far along now and gets some pr before it's actually the 76th year. hard to imagine they'd miss this milestone but the airstream site has nothing about this. any info or details would be great.

now the long one:

2. as i work through the process to order a classic 05, the issues related to length and mass are really confused. it shouldn't be as complicated as einstein's theory of relativity but it sure seems so.....

first all of the 30s and all of the 31s are in fact exactly the same length, with the same chassis and shell....right? i realize they have different floor plans...like split baths in the 30s and 34like baths in the 31s; wardrobe sizes vary as do galley placements and dinettes.... but THEY ARE ALL EXACTLY THE SAME SIZE...right? and do they have the same weight rating for axels? i do realize the slide adds another demension to the 30s but leave that out of the issue.
now for mass:

according to the as website:

model............... 30.......... 31....... 30/s
gvwr...................... ??....... ??....... ??
ubw........................ 7,2-- 7,8-- 7,8--
ncc ........................ 2,8-- 2,7-- 2,4--

now i find it hard to believe the 31 weights 600lbs more than the same size 30, and that the 30 slide weights exactly the same as the 31. also it would seem that the ncc would be the same for the 2 that have the same ubw and greater for the 30 that weighs the least.....i do realize options affect dry weight, but according to the order form most options are 5-20lbs except the ltd package which is 713lbs.

i decided to consult the airstream booklet for 05 models:

model............. 30 .............31 .........30/s
gvwr.............. 10,000...... 10,000..... 10,300
ubw .............. 7,200 ..........7,100...... 7,800
ncc ............... 2,7--...... 2,8--...... 2,4--

ok, now this makes a little more sense and the numbers actually add up!!
ncc seems like a workable number too.
i assume the 30/slide has higher load rated axels but don't know this.

however i'm now looking at the retail sales order spec sheet for a 05 31:

gvwr 8,700
ubw 7,880
ncc 820

here the numbers add up, but there is no way 800lbs is gonna fly for load...counting fluids. and this is the order form from airstream that the dealers use. has all options listed and weights for each too.


called dealer to ask about this....all he could say was "hmm" i'll have to call the factory....and now one has followed up with me.


so do any of you more experienced folks know some of these basic numbers?

i do realize it's best to weigh the unit, loaded, with/without tv.....but first i have to order it!!

thanks for any insight on airstream modern math!
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Old 01-20-2005, 11:50 PM   #2
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That was one of my complaints about the website. The data is way different. The last post seems to be the most accurate. Though I only have an '03 and '04 sales catalog, unless it's a slide, none of the 30s or 31s come up to 10k in GVWR if I recall correctly. I was looking at a 31' and it's GVWR was 8700lbs.
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Old 01-21-2005, 06:31 AM   #3
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Based on what I have seen by actual weigh measurement, Airrstream's weight numbers seem to be more of a WAG than SWAG. They certainly don't seem to be based on any real facts, like putting an actual unit on an accurate scale.
I come from a backround in Automobile manufacturing. We knew the weight of every part, including things like screws, sealer and paint to four decimal points! All we had to do was add things up, and we had the total weight. Of course, some parts varied in weight from run to run. Overall, our calculated weights were very close to actual.
The only way to know how much your new trailer weighs is to get it on a certifed scale as soon as it is delivered. You may be surprised.
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Old 01-21-2005, 09:36 AM   #4
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Also

Nowhere do we find the unloaded weight delta for the Limited option. The extra Corean, motorized jacks, etc. have to add to the unloaded weight and subtract from the useful load.
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Old 01-21-2005, 05:10 PM   #5
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a few of the option weights

looking at the sales order sheet i have, here are some of the option weights.
the dealer i spoke with said the way the factory arrives at the printed weight that is attached inside the unit is to add the items from this list to the base.
at no time does the completed trailer touch a scale....

31 classic................................ 7031
15000 ac/heat pump and controller.....19
audio upgrade..........................26
video upgrade............................0, that right zero
corian tops...............................0, that's right zero
corian on ltd.............................0
ext speakers.................22
gen prep remote..............9
ltd upgrade, queen..............713
ltd upgrade, twins................713
microwave/convection with 3 burner top.......11
10cf refrig..............21
sat. radio..........6
skylight galley ...............11
skylight rear...............10
ultra leather soft..........1
solar charge system............16
spare tire/wheel steel...............61

these wts are for a 31 but the 34 wouldn't be much more.

cheers
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Old 01-21-2005, 07:24 PM   #6
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You've certainly raised some good points, and the more I read, the more I'm beginning to think that the significant sway problems we had this past summer with our 2004 20' Classic Ltd might have been that we were over weight without realizing it - I had been trying to keep our personal items within the Net Carrying Capacity posted on the inside of our trailer, without actually weighing our trailer, and without actually studying Airstream's new math, as you have done.

Before our first trip this coming spring, I'm heading to the local scales!

Looking at your numbers for the 2005's though raises another significant question in my mind.

The sales literature for the 2004 models shows the GVWR's for the 30', 31' and 31' S.O, as 8700, 8700 and 9100lbs, respectively, and the UVW's as 7180, 7150 and 7900 lbs (I assume that these UVW's are without the options).

Assuming that the "UVW" published last year means the same thing as the "UBW" does this year (Let's not quibble with Airstream's spelling, just their math ) then IF the GVWR's have actually increased to about 10,000 pounds for these 3 models for 2005, what improvements did Airstream make in these 2005 Classic models that enable them to carry this added weight??????

Better axles? Better tires?? or what???

John
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Old 01-21-2005, 07:43 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfisher
IF the GVWR's have actually increased to about 10,000 pounds for these 3 models for 2005, what improvements did Airstream make in these 2005 Classic models that enable them to carry this added weight??????
10,000 pounds??? Holy Smokes, what an increase!!! The other question that comes to mind is what did AS add to 2005 for that hefty increase? Vista Views don't weigh that much.
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Old 01-21-2005, 10:18 PM   #8
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more numbers

well if these 10k gvwr in the 05 booklet turn out to be correct,
my uninformed guess would be that the axle rating and tires have both been up rated.
also if these numbers are correct the ubw has actually decreased (even with vista views) for the 31ft model (7800 for 04 and 7100 for 05) a good thing if needing to carry much.

flyfisher, your 2004 sales booklet numbers are in line with the 2005 order form and website numbers i referenced, which suggests to me that IF the 05s have been up rated (as in the booklet0 and someone just forgot to change these figures on the website and order form.

a factory rep is supposed to sort these figures over the weekend and then straighten me out....

pahaska, the order form suggests that corrian counters add zero to any trailer, limited or not. 700 lbs must come from hickory and more wood (tables) electric jacks, bigger tanks, the burgundy cloth and that heavy ltd logo!!

to compare the big units in the other lines,

the int/ccd gvwr, ebw and ncc are: 7300, 5460 and 1840 for a 28ftr.

while the "lightwt" safari is: 8400, 6215 and 2185 for a 30ftr...

in fact a 28 safari w/slide weights 650lbs more than a 30 and has a 9100lbs gvwr. safaris are light weights no more.


now do any of you have info on my first question....is there a 75th anv. model coming? seems like this would have to happen soon, before it becomes the 76th year...

cheers
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Old 01-22-2005, 09:13 AM   #9
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Corean

Quote:
pahaska, the order form suggests that corrian counters add zero to any trailer, limited or not. 700 lbs must come from hickory and more wood (tables) electric jacks, bigger tanks, the burgundy cloth and that heavy ltd logo!!
I can only say that the Corean counter extension in my friend's Limited was so heavy that it broke/bent multiple sets of brackets. He finally removed it altogether. They may include that weight under the "Limited" category, but the extra Corean does add some weight.
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Old 01-22-2005, 11:24 AM   #10
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Solid surface is about the same

Once you guys figure the weight of the pressboard and formica it is about the same or less than 1/4" solid surface (2.6lbs/sq. ft). It is just a nicer surface.
One option for the aftermarket upgrade arena is the use of solid surface for a custom look in the bathroom. Amerinite is able to sell direct to the consumer and it is no harder to work (with the right tools and training) than wood.
I know this is no help on the trailer weights but maybe there could be a mass "weigh-in" forum for the spring. This would be prior to loading every piece of junk in for the summer rallying...
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