Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-05-2005, 11:59 AM   #29
Rivet Master
 
Pahaska's Avatar
 
2014 Interstate Ext. Coach
Hays County , Texas
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,819
Images: 3
Water Pump Pilot Light

Last week's trip brought out a very bad weakness in the trailer that I will fix before our next trip.

There are two 3-way switches that control the water pump; one switch in the bathroom and one on the control panel above the galley sink. Unfortunately, the switch in the bathroom is on the same plate with the bathroom light switch. Sometime during the week, one of us accidentally turned the water pump switch on when turning the bathroom lights on or off. Since we were hooked up to city water all week, the pump being on was not noticed until just as we were leaving the trailer the pump happened to come on and run dry because the fresh tank had been emptied.

Over time, this is almost sure to run down and possibly ruin a set of batteries. My previous 25 had a pilot light on the pump, why not the 28?

Airstream did not include any wiring diagrams in the user's manual for my 2005 trailer, but I downloaded the 2004 manual and printed out a very blurred and hard-to read user's manual. A little time with a magnifying glass to dope out the wiring and I now know how to rig a pilot light.

When I get mine installed and tested, I'll post the info here.
__________________

__________________
John W. Irwin
2014.5 Touring Coach, "Sabre-Dog IV"
WBCCI #9632
Pahaska is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2005, 12:43 PM   #30
Rivet Master
 
flyfisher's Avatar
 
2004 30' Classic
Field and Stream , PA & MT
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 819
John -

We've got the same set-up as you in our 30' Calssic, and my wife has also accidentally turned the pump on in the bathroom by mistake. I can hear our pump running though (she'd can't hear it) and I turn it off after a short time.

I like your idea, but I wonder why you really need that extra bathroom switch anyway? It's not like you have to walk an extra mile to get to the kitchen switch - perhaps 3 steps in our trailer.

John
__________________

__________________
Flyfisher
flyfisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2005, 01:22 PM   #31
Rivet Master
 
Pahaska's Avatar
 
2014 Interstate Ext. Coach
Hays County , Texas
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,819
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfisher
John -
I like your idea, but I wonder why you really need that extra bathroom switch anyway? It's not like you have to walk an extra mile to get to the kitchen switch - perhaps 3 steps in our trailer.
John
You're right, the switch on the control panel is a lot less likely to be accidentally activated than the one in the bathroom, but even that one could very easily be forgotten when putting the trailer away since there is no on/off indication. My wife does the inside chores when getting ready to move the trailer and she most likely won't remember to turn it off.

It's just about as easy for me to add a pilot light as it would be for me to disable the switch in the bathroom. And there have been a few times that I have needed the pump on that it would have been very impractical to open the doors to the rest of the trailer for various reasons.

I have already installed a 12v cigarette-lighter type outlet in the area below the wardrobe door, adjacent to the water pump. I need only to to drill a hole and crimp a couple of inline taps to install a pilot light there.
__________________
John W. Irwin
2014.5 Touring Coach, "Sabre-Dog IV"
WBCCI #9632
Pahaska is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2005, 07:29 PM   #32
Rivet Master
 
davidz71's Avatar
 
1986 25' Sovereign
Southern Middle , Tennessee
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,148
Images: 23
Lighted rocker switch

John,
Why not replace the rocker switch with the pilot light built in? Turn the switch on and the rocker lights up.
__________________
Craig

AIR #0078
'01 2500hd ext. cab, 8.1 litre gas, 5 sp. Allison auto
3.73 rear end
Mag-Hytec rear diff cover
Amsoil Dual by-pass oil filtration system
Amsoil synthetics all around
265 watt AM Solar, Inc. system
davidz71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2005, 10:29 PM   #33
Rivet Master
 
Pahaska's Avatar
 
2014 Interstate Ext. Coach
Hays County , Texas
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,819
Images: 3
Won't work

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidz71
John,
Why not replace the rocker switch with the pilot light built in? Turn the switch on and the rocker lights up.
That won't work. Since it is a 3-way hookup, "on" is not a constant state for either switch. Also, the 2 3-way switches are both parts of larger assemblies and can't be easily replaced without kludgeing things up.

I have the problem mostly solved. I stopped at Pep Boys tonight and picked up a package of 3 green 12v LEDs for $5.95. The resistors are built in and they mount by simply pressing them into a 7/32" hole. Each LED has about 18" of wire already attached, so that they will be very easy to hook up. I'll mount one LED close by the control panel switch and a second LED in the bathroom near the water pump.

There was a wide choice of LED colors available. Green seemed to be most appropriate for a status light and also was $1 cheaper for the package of 3 than any of the other colors (red, purple. blue, yellow, etc.).
__________________
John W. Irwin
2014.5 Touring Coach, "Sabre-Dog IV"
WBCCI #9632
Pahaska is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2005, 08:06 AM   #34
Rivet Master
 
2006 30' Classic
Farmington , New Mexico
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 822
Images: 14
Pahaska--I've been following this thread about you bathroom switches and am a little confused. We have a 25' classic, 2005, with a light switch and water pump switch on the same bath room panel like you discribe but they are 2 way, just on-off. The pump switch in the galley is a 2 way ,on-off switch also. Am I confused on this or what??---Pieman
__________________
Mike Lewis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2005, 09:33 AM   #35
Rivet Master
 
Pahaska's Avatar
 
2014 Interstate Ext. Coach
Hays County , Texas
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,819
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Lewis
Pahaska--I've been following this thread about you bathroom switches and am a little confused. We have a 25' classic, 2005, with a light switch and water pump switch on the same bath room panel like you discribe but they are 2 way, just on-off. The pump switch in the galley is a 2 way ,on-off switch also. Am I confused on this or what??---Pieman
I think if you will play with the switches a bit, you will find that they are actually 3-way switches. Try turning the pump on with one switch and turning it back off with the other. I bet it works.

I have printed 2004 wiring diagrams here on my desk for both the 28 and the 25 and they are identical in water pump wiring. My 2005 matches the 2004 wiring diagram perfectly, so I suspect there have been no changes in the 25' for 2005. Since the change history on both of these wiring diagrams goes right back to June, 1993 (wide body introduction), this is obviously a pretty stable wiring scheme.

The switch in the lavatory has 3 wires shown. #3, the 12v feed, and 3A and 3B which are the two switched poles of the switch. The galley switch also shows 3 wires; 3A, 3B, and 3C. 3A and 3B come from the lavatory switch and 3C goes to the water pump itself. The water pump shows 2 wires; 3C and ground. This is a classic (pun intended) 3-way hookup and even the wire numbers are identical between the trailer models.
__________________
John W. Irwin
2014.5 Touring Coach, "Sabre-Dog IV"
WBCCI #9632
Pahaska is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2005, 08:23 PM   #36
Rivet Master
 
Pahaska's Avatar
 
2014 Interstate Ext. Coach
Hays County , Texas
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,819
Images: 3
I now have a LED pilot light on the water pump

After I winterized the trailer this morning, I took a few minutes to install one of the green LEDs that I bought the other night. Works like a charm, but I need a dropping resistor as it is far too bright as it is.

I reached up behind the control panel and pushed outward. The panel easily popped out and there was plenty of wire to allow me to conveniently work on it. Right above the water pump switch, there was about 1/2" space between the front panel and the circuit board behind it. I drilled the hole, using a piece of wine cork as a spacer on the 7/32" drill bit to make sure I would not accidentally break through and hit the circuit board.

The red (+) wire from the LED went to the wire on the center post of the water pump switch. The black wire went to the white ground wire to the panel. I attached the wires by cutting off the old crimp connectors and crimping the small wires from the LED in with the wires going to the panel.

The result looks "factory" and, except that it is now too bright, works as advertised.

I'll experiment in my shop with a battery and one of the spare LEDs to determine what size resistor I need to get the right light output.

I'll post some photos when I get a chance.
__________________
John W. Irwin
2014.5 Touring Coach, "Sabre-Dog IV"
WBCCI #9632
Pahaska is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2005, 09:16 PM   #37
Rivet Master
 
2006 30' Classic
Farmington , New Mexico
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 822
Images: 14
John ---Maybe I'm confusing the "terms" when I say my25 has a 2 way switch. Yes I knew it operates in a fashion that allows you to turn the pump on from either the bath or the panel. My understanding of these switches is that they are "2 position, 3 pole switches", as the ones in mine only have on -off and nothing in between. I have an idea now that we're taking of the same switch just different terminology??---Pieman
__________________
Mike Lewis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2005, 11:05 PM   #38
Rivet Master
 
Pahaska's Avatar
 
2014 Interstate Ext. Coach
Hays County , Texas
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,819
Images: 3
Sorry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Lewis
John ---Maybe I'm confusing the "terms" when I say my25 has a 2 way switch. Yes I knew it operates in a fashion that allows you to turn the pump on from either the bath or the panel. My understanding of these switches is that they are "2 position, 3 pole switches", as the ones in mine only have on -off and nothing in between. I have an idea now that we're taking of the same switch just different terminology??---Pieman
There is no such thing as a fixed off or on switch position with these switches. Whether the pump is running with a given switch up or down (right or left on the control panel) depends on the current state of the other switch.

The term for that hookup is a 3-way circuit, the same as a residential 3-way circuit. I know the terminology is confusing, but I didn't invent it. A 3-way circuit does not require that the switches have 3 positions. I think that 3-way refers to the boolean state of the switches: match in state A, match in state B, or mismatch.

If you have never happened to turn the pump on with one switch and later turned it off with the other switch, you may not have noticed how it works.
__________________
John W. Irwin
2014.5 Touring Coach, "Sabre-Dog IV"
WBCCI #9632
Pahaska is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2005, 02:37 AM   #39
Site Team
 
azflycaster's Avatar
 
1975 25' Tradewind
Dewey , Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 12,124
Images: 62
Blog Entries: 1
Here is a diagram of a basic 3 way circut.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	3way.jpg
Views:	99
Size:	15.6 KB
ID:	16945  
__________________

Richard

Wally Byam Airstream Club 7513
azflycaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2005, 08:58 AM   #40
Rivet Master
 
Pahaska's Avatar
 
2014 Interstate Ext. Coach
Hays County , Texas
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,819
Images: 3
Thanks for the diagram

Quote:
Originally Posted by azflycaster
Here is a diagram of a basic 3 way circut.
That is exactly the way both the 25 and the 28 water pumps are wired. On the diagram, simply mark in +12v on the top wire at the extreme left. write "lavatory" over the left switch, write "galley" over the right switch, and write "ground" on the bottom wire on the left.

My LED pilot light is tapped into the wire between the galley switch and the pump with theother side of the LED wired to ground..
__________________
John W. Irwin
2014.5 Touring Coach, "Sabre-Dog IV"
WBCCI #9632
Pahaska is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2005, 04:23 PM   #41
Rivet Master
 
warbler5's Avatar
 
2004 30' Classic
Roseville , California
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 679
Send a message via AIM to warbler5
We had the same thing happen to us.....our dealer left it on after replacing the control panel!!!! We have had the trailer out since, and everything seemed to be okay. We will be following this thread to see what you come up with....
__________________
2004 30' Airstream Classic
2011 GMC 3500HD Duramax
Hensley Arrow hitch


Jackson Rancheria, 10-12 Oct 2014
Pinnacles Nat'l Park, 20-22 Feb 2015
Casini Ranch, 10-12 Apr 2015


AIR #6287
TAC #CA-26
WBCCI #3933/4CU
__________________
warbler5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2005, 06:48 PM   #42
Rivet Master
 
flyfisher's Avatar
 
2004 30' Classic
Field and Stream , PA & MT
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 819
If you leave the pump turned on for some length of time without any water in the holding tank will this hurt the pump?

I wonder why Airstream doesn't build them with lighted switches, or have the switches separate?

John
__________________

__________________
Flyfisher
flyfisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
2005 classic


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.