Upsizing my Inverter to Xantrex Freedom FS 3012

[Alex AVI]

Upsizing my Inverter to Xantrex Freedom FS 3012

I have this new inverter sitting in my garage. It was not meant for my AI but that's a different story for a different time. Now, I am seriously thinking of removing my smokin-hottie (pun intended) Magnum 1000w inverter and replace with this. Some of it's basic features are:
-Pure sine-wave
-3000 W with 150 A multi-stage charger
-Dual input / Dual output AC interface for 3000 W model
-Ability to charge batteries drained to extremely low voltage
-Built-in transfer switch
-Ignition lockout feature helps prevent unnecessary battery drain when the alternator is not providing power
-Wide operating temperature range: -4°F to 140°F (-20°C to 60°C)
-Conformal coated circuit boards for humid environments

Because the XANTREX is a Dual input / Dual output AC interface, I am also going to use the opportunity to upgrade my service to 50A.

I am not looking to discuss/debate which inverter is worse, good, better or best. I won't engage in that for this thread. My original Magnum burned up 3 months after delivery. So some of you already know how I feel about my existing inverter and it's manufacturer.

This thread is to ask opinions on how an upsize like this worked out for them. Did it work out well or not type discussion is what I am looking for. Not asking for a deep-dive technical discussion. I can deal with that on my own, if need be, I am in my comfort zone here.
1. Has anyone upgraded their AI inverter to a similar sized one?
2. Has anyone upgraded their AI service to 50A?
3. Obviously I have some ideas of the advantages to this - but what advantages have others seen by doing both #1 & #2 above?
4. Inverter didn't cost me anything & cost to upgrade my cords & breakers & adding possibly a 2nd sub-panel is going to be minimal. I already reserved C/S space under couch opposite h20 heater (see pic below) for this with proper ventilation & metal enclosure will be fabricated. So putting aside the cost/price & much bigger size/space allocation issue & wasting some good existing parts - what other disadvantage or pitfalls did you encounter converting to #1 & #2 ?

[amirm]

I upgraded ours to 2000 watt unit which allows us to use the microwave. That has been hugely useful. It was as part of a total re-wire to convert to Lithium. Upsizing the cables and making them is fair bit of work. Voltage loss and heat is an issue at every junction. You have to eliminate as many of those as you can. With yours being one size larger will make this task more complex.

Worst thing is finding space for it that fits and is optimal for wiring. I put our lithium cells right next to it so wasn't as bad.

If you have not converted to Lithium, this may be a good time to do that.

[Alex AVI]

AMIRM - Thanks for the tip(s). Glad to hear you did it for same reason as I thought. I hate stopping at a rest stop and fire up gen just to microwave food. Just doesn't seem right. I can understand running gen for a/c, but for 2-3 min to microwave stuff? And besides, ONAN says running it in short bursts like that is not good for gen. Has to warm up for 45min, according to them.

Yes, I expect a fair amount of work. I am ready for it with attitude that I will only do once, so it has to be done right. Good suggestion on Lithium. The space on the pic C/S has already been allocated for both the XANTREX and future Lithium. I probably will try to do at same time even with high cost of Lithium. BUT if not, will allocate the infrastructure now for the swap i.e. cable conduit, routing, and trays, etc. So when I buy the batts, all is set to swap from the external underchassis tray to inside. But now seriously considering it all once, based on your suggestion.

[pdavitt]

Hi Alex,


Thought I would provide some interesting reading. Below is the install guide for the SW 3012. Should be quite a project. Pay close attention to the Neutral/Ground bond automatic transfer switch and the fact that the AC inputs are limited to 30A each. Your 50A shore power will give you 50A on each leg (L1/Neutral and L2/Neutral).


Pat

[Boxster1971]

I upgraded to a 2000 watt Magnum inverter/charger when I expanded my AGM battery bank to 440AH with four 6V Lifeline batteries. This works well for running the microwave off batteries. I also have 400 Watts of solar panels.

I did this about four years ago and it has worked great. But, if I did it now would go with large lithium battery pack and a 3000+ watt inverter so you could run A/C off batteries for a short while to cool down coach before sunset.

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by pdavitt

Hi Alex,

Thought I would provide some interesting reading. Below is the install guide for the SW 3012. Should be quite a project. Pay close attention to the Neutral/Ground bond automatic transfer switch and the fact that the AC inputs are limited to 30A each. Your 50A shore power will give you 50A on each leg (L1/Neutral and L2/Neutral).

Pat

PAT - Yes, last night when I was diagramming the project, I quickly realized combining the 2 mini-projects (upsizing inverter & going to 50A service) was not a smart idea. I am still upsizing the inverter. But I will can the 50A service conversion. I don't mind the expense of new power cords, extensions, new breakers, additional panel, giving up more space. But the diagram helped show some of the things I forgot to add (cost wise) - new transfer switch, Progressive EMS surge, getting the PCS enabled for 50A. Even if I was ok with more expense, the fact was I was not going to get much in return for it. Only have 1-a/c and 1-120v gen, and the inverter limitations of 30 per leg, 60 total on N. Easy decision to scrap that idea.

But, onward to upsize the inverter and use it's dual input capacity to be able to use microwave without firing up gen. The one thing I just realized is the XANTREX has 3-stage charging while the MAGNUM has 4-stage charging. Not sure how big an issue is to not have the 4th stage "Full Charge". Will do a bit more thinking on that part. But boy, I would really like the 3000w vs. my current 1000w

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

I upgraded to a 2000 watt Magnum inverter/charger when I expanded my AGM battery bank to 440AH with four 6V Lifeline batteries. This works well for running the microwave off batteries. I also have 400 Watts of solar panels.

I did this about four years ago and it has worked great. But, if I did it now would go with large lithium battery pack and a 3000+ watt inverter so you could run A/C off batteries for a short while to cool down coach before sunset.

MIKE - You the 2nd one now (AMIRM) who suggested going Lithium at same time. For an inverter that did not cost me hardly anything, it may end up to be still an expensive proposition. Was not ready for it, but you guys are right, since it is part of future plans, it would be the smart move to do both now. I have canned the 50A service idea (see above post to PAT, which was really just an add-on to the upsizing inverter project anyway). So, the Lithium is just taking it's place. Yikes, the projects just keep on keeping on This is great though, it's the kind of stuff I prefer to do. It keeps me away from destroying any more interior furniture. And I do like the idea of having a little headroom to run a/c a few mins. Was not a big want but nice to have that ability here in the desert.

[JohnTF]

If you go lithium , forget the charging system in the inverter - you need a BMS - BatteryManagementSystem that is specific to the type of lithium !!!

[pdavitt]

Originally Posted by Alex AVI

PAT - Yes, last night when I was diagramming the project, I quickly realized combining the 2 mini-projects (upsizing inverter & going to 50A service) was not a smart idea. I am still upsizing the inverter. But I will can the 50A service conversion. I don't mind the expense of new power cords, extensions, new breakers, additional panel, giving up more space. But the diagram helped show some of the things I forgot to add (cost wise) - new transfer switch, Progressive EMS surge, getting the PCS enabled for 50A. Even if I was ok with more expense, the fact was I was not going to get much in return for it. Only have 1-a/c and 1-120v gen, and the inverter limitations of 30 per leg, 60 total on N. Easy decision to scrap that idea.

But, onward to upsize the inverter and use it's dual input capacity to be able to use microwave without firing up gen. The one thing I just realized is the XANTREX has 3-stage charging while the MAGNUM has 4-stage charging. Not sure how big an issue is to not have the 4th stage "Full Charge". Will do a bit more thinking on that part. But boy, I would really like the 3000w vs. my current 1000w

Alex,


I would look at the Victron Multiplus 12/3000/70 120V they are well thought of here. Below is the Datasheet.


Pat

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by JohnTF

If you go lithium , forget the charging system in the inverter - you need a BMS - BatteryManagementSystem that is specific to the type of lithium !!!

JOHNTF - Yep, understood. What I like about the Freedom 3012X is I can integrate all that from XANTREX kit. Had t add the solar MPPT since the stock Atkinson is pos. Gosh the price tag keeps going up. I just requested from my wife and advance on birthday, father's day, anniversary, & Christmas gifts :lol

My shopping list so far from XANTREX:

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by pdavitt

Alex,

I would look at the Victron Multiplus 12/3000/70 120V they are well thought of here. Below is the Datasheet.

Pat

PAT - Thanks. I did and would normally consider all options. Except I already have the brand spankin' new XANTREX here and it was free. So I am building around the XANTREX lithium system, of which I would be able to further get (not free this time) but at substantial cost reduction.

[LB_3]

Just a reminder: 50A outlets are 240v systems. Or more precisely, they have two 120v lines out of phase with each other. To take full advantage of the full 50As, you may need to split your circuit breaker box so that you can balance some loads on each circuit. This may be why your inverter has two outlets.

Edit: Oops, I jumped the gun and posted before seeing that you were scrapping the 50A upgrade. Probably a smart idea.

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by LB_3

Just a reminder: 50A outlets are 240v systems. Or more precisely, they have two 120v lines out of phase with each other. To take full advantage of the full 50As, you may need to split your circuit breaker box so that you can balance some loads on each circuit. This may be why your inverter has two outlets.

Edit: Oops, I jumped the gun and posted before seeing that you were scrapping the 50A upgrade. Probably a smart idea.

LB_3 - No worries, I always appreciate the reminder from anyone, especially when it involves safety & dangerous electricals. The thought of upsizing to 50A came about since I would be making a major re-route anyways to upsize my inverter. And I don't need to list the benefits of going to 100A total. But the limitations of the XANTREX DIDO (dual in, dual out) and all the extra costs incurred just to throw away some very expensive existing parts made it easy decision to stay 30A.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by Alex AVI

LB_3 - No worries, I always appreciate the reminder from anyone, especially when it involves safety & dangerous electricals. The thought of upsizing to 50A came about since I would be making a major re-route anyways to upsize my inverter. And I don't need to list the benefits of going to 100A total. But the limitations of the XANTREX DIDO (dual in, dual out) and all the extra costs incurred just to throw away some very expensive existing parts made it easy decision to stay 30A.

ALEX - glad to hear you dropped the 50A plan. I meant to add that to my earlier post.

[Pahaska]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

ALEX - glad to hear you dropped the 50A plan. I meant to add that to my earlier post.

IMHO, a 50 amp cable and an Interstate go together like oil and water. Most Airstream trailer owners with 2 ACs that I know carry a 30a cable and an adapter except in high summer, even with much more storage space. That 50 amp cable is a beast.

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

ALEX - glad to hear you dropped the 50A plan. I meant to add that to my earlier post.

Originally Posted by Pahaska

IMHO, a 50 amp cable and an Interstate go together like oil and water. Most Airstream trailer owners with 2 ACs that I know carry a 30a cable and an adapter except in high summer, even with much more storage space. That 50 amp cable is a beast.

MIKE, JOHN - I won't go into all the details of why the 50A plan got hatched in 1st place - ok, I will just a little - I want to buy/convert a bare trailer primarily as sleeping quarters for daughter, son-in-law (Nest size) to slave with the AI. Already got approval from wife & daughter to start the build. And of course you guys know enough of the other reasons I stated prior. So if the Xantrex 3012 DIDO supported 50 each leg, and it's output was at least 60 (even if I didn't get to full 100), I would've pushed on. But the output limited to 30 and then a lot more added cost to what I thought was just wiring, receptacle, cords, breaker, & 2nd panel - i.e. need to get new Progressive 50 surge EMS, new transfer switch, possibly new PCS EMS (coz the AS version is not 50 enabled) - it fast became a stupid idea when I only have 1 a/c anyway And yeah, carrying 50 cables, extension - no way I want that unless I can get the full benefits of the 50 service. Seen my friend's Monaco & his 50A/50ft is heavier than me

[guskmg]

The Magnum 2000 and 3000 units are programable for all lithiums if you put in the right data. BTW, I believe the Magnum is the only US factory serviceable unit. I'm not sure about Vitron. I just talked to a friend that changed out his 1000 for a 2000 magnum in his AI. He says everything works as advertised.
guskmg

[blkmagikca]

I just swapped out my Xantrex FS3012 for a Magnum MS2012. The Xantrex communication between the inverter/charger and its control panel is unreliable. It freezes and stops functioning at random inopportune times requiring you to remove the control panel and disconnect the network cable and terminator to effect a hard reset. After 5 years of putting up with this nonsense which was not resolved by a firmware update, I ditched the Xantrex.

[wachuko]

Alex, did you go through with this?