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Old 03-05-2016, 06:35 AM   #15
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I wonder is it possible that the 3-ways got more efficient in recent years but with the rise of the all-electrics, it maybe just wasn't recognized or talked about in the market? Knock wood, but ours is really cold and it doesn't take long to get there. The door is insulated and it still ends up with this kind of condensation:
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Old 03-05-2016, 07:22 AM   #16
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I wonder is it possible that the 3-ways got more efficient in recent years but with the rise of the all-electrics, it maybe just wasn't recognized or talked about in the market? Knock wood, but ours is really cold and it doesn't take long to get there. The door is insulated and it still ends up with this kind of condensation:
Ammonia-cycle refrigeration is the oldest there is except for blocks of ice, going all the way back a century and a half, and that technology peaked in efficiency decades ago. If you're getting condensation on your fridge door, I wouldn't think your fridge is more efficient, I'd think your insulation is less efficient…

I've never seen condensation on my fridge door, even with the air inside the van hovering at 80°F and 80% relative humidity with that big sliding door open, and the air inside the fridge at 34°F. Around the door seals, yes, but not on the door itself.
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Old 03-07-2016, 07:43 AM   #17
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... If you're getting condensation on your fridge door, I wouldn't think your fridge is more efficient, I'd think your insulation is less efficient…
...
LOL I think it's both. The old Dometic 2351 had the same door insulation, but no condensation resulted during operation. Not surprisingly, it didn't get as cold (as suggested by the digital temp sensors we installed on both).
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Old 04-19-2016, 06:15 PM   #18
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Lewster laid it out perfectly. I concur with all he wrote.

I have a Norcold compressor refer in my type B MC. 19 years and still working. Safe and efficient. With only 1 100AH coach battery can power the refer for 48 hours. Now that I have a 45 amp 3 stage converter to use genset power efficiently, that battery never runs out. I also have a 120 watt portable PVC array that can power the refer + recharge the coach battery.

I don't need to buy propane for the refer, nor worry that out of level condition will ruin the refer in 20 minutes.
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Old 04-19-2016, 08:58 PM   #19
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two way refrigerator?

Ages ago, I converted a long GMC van to a camper setup. The fridge ran on 120ac and 12vdc and switched over automagically. I know it was described as a 'swing motor' compressor. It was fairly quiet. Ran a day or two off a cheap marine battery, and did not seem to care if it was even close to level. Was not real cheap at the time, but the only propane appliance we had was a three burner stovetop. Heat was a electric heater in the sidewalk, or a lot of blankets.

It worked, but had no dash air. Had an evaporative cooler on the roof that worked great in the SoCal area, but was useless in Alabama, so we sold the rig and did other camping until we got the AS. And yeah, if the Standard RV fridge dies, is going to be replaced with a Danfoss style one. The solar and batteries I have now can handle it easily.


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Old 04-19-2016, 09:20 PM   #20
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Fully agree with all who said to spend your money on more solar instead of a 3-way(refrigerator that is). I recently went from 50 to 200W and have never since had to run my generator to charge the batteries.
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Old 04-20-2016, 09:58 AM   #21
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Agree, 200w seems to do the trick. Another thing I do sometimes is just turn off the fridge at night when I go to sleep. I've never had a problem with it holding temp through the night given cooler temps and darkness. Of course I don't camp much in the warm-weather south. Maybe this is cheating. Also, we're vegetarians so we never have meat in the box. Maybe that would change my thinking.
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Old 05-31-2017, 07:47 AM   #22
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Norcold was mentioned on this thread (and on others) as one of the replacement brand possibilities for the Airstream-installed fridges. I thought I'd cross reference this thread from IRV2 in which users report potential fire issues with Norcold circuit boards. Add this tidbit of info to your research, in other words, if you are considering a new fridge.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this looks like a trace burn-out, the same issue that destroyed our second electrical converter (back before we did our lithium retrofit - description of that failure here) and almost burned down our Interstate.

What I don't understand is why equipment fails this way, why it can't be made to be more robust. Sooooo... there's an arc or something and it jumps circuit and makes a new path and sets the board on fire in the process, is basically what I think I'm seeing. Great. Obviously this is immediately dangerous to peoples' lives, as the whole rig could catch fire. Where and why is the initial failure happening, and what can be done to prevent it? The same question holds whether it's a refrigerator or an electrical converter or whatever equipment.

Here's a screenshot of one of the pics from that IRV2 thread:

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Old 05-31-2017, 09:56 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InterBlog View Post
Norcold was mentioned on this thread (and on others) as one of the replacement brand possibilities for the Airstream-installed fridges. I thought I'd cross reference this thread from IRV2 in which users report potential fire issues with Norcold circuit boards. Add this tidbit of info to your research, in other words, if you are considering a new fridge.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this looks like a trace burn-out, the same issue that destroyed our second electrical converter (back before we did our lithium retrofit - description of that failure here) and almost burned down our Interstate.

What I don't understand is why equipment fails this way, why it can't be made to be more robust. Sooooo... there's an arc or something and it jumps circuit and makes a new path and sets the board on fire in the process, is basically what I think I'm seeing. Great. Obviously this is immediately dangerous to peoples' lives, as the whole rig could catch fire. Where and why is the initial failure happening, and what can be done to prevent it? The same question holds whether it's a refrigerator or an electrical converter or whatever equipment.

Here's a screenshot of one of the pics from that IRV2 thread:

IB,

Circuit can boards can and ARE built to better standards than what Norcold uses.......by companies like Dinosaur Electronics. All of their products are done to Mil. Spec. and are far more robust and higher quality than the OEMs use. Reason.......PRICE!!!

The burn failure is typical of many Norcold boards and when I was still doing RV repair, that type of failure was the most common for Norcold units that ceased to operate.
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Old 05-31-2017, 12:57 PM   #24
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Allow me to make the understatement of the week and say, "That's good to know!"
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Old 05-31-2017, 03:04 PM   #25
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The materials commonly used on PC-boards will often oxidize in atmosphere and the small circuits which are very close together might "grow" when they oxidize... "tentacles" or "threads" of oxidized material. When these threads make contact with another circuit close-by a "short" is introduced which causes burnout or failure.

Better PC-boards are treated with "environmental-coating" which is a plasticized, clear type of shellac to protect the circuits from oxidation and humidity-damage that leads to this problem. It's a small expense but one that adds-up for mfr's in labor and matl's costs. If you know what you're doing...you can buy the environmental spray in aerosol cans and treat the boards yourself. Don't over-do it...a little is all it takes.

(Yes... it's an irritation mfr's don't do this, but cheap is the word these days.)
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Old 05-31-2017, 08:14 PM   #26
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The materials commonly used on PC-boards will often oxidize in atmosphere and the small circuits which are very close together might "grow" when they oxidize... "tentacles" or "threads" of oxidized material. When these threads make contact with another circuit close-by a "short" is introduced which causes burnout or failure.

Better PC-boards are treated with "environmental-coating" which is a plasticized, clear type of shellac to protect the circuits from oxidation and humidity-damage that leads to this problem. It's a small expense but one that adds-up for mfr's in labor and matl's costs. If you know what you're doing...you can buy the environmental spray in aerosol cans and treat the boards yourself. Don't over-do it...a little is all it takes.

(Yes... it's an irritation mfr's don't do this, but cheap is the word these days.)
With apologies to "The Graduate", "Two words, solder dendrites".

With the demise of lead in solder which led to the increase in dendritic growth, even quality PWAs can exhibit the phenomenon. Closely spaced, small-leadless components only exacerbated the problem.
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Old 05-31-2017, 09:38 PM   #27
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The materials commonly used on PC-boards will often oxidize in atmosphere and the small circuits which are very close together might "grow" when they oxidize... "tentacles" or "threads" of oxidized material. When these threads make contact with another circuit close-by a "short" is introduced which causes burnout or failure.

Better PC-boards are treated with "environmental-coating" which is a plasticized, clear type of shellac to protect the circuits from oxidation and humidity-damage that leads to this problem. It's a small expense but one that adds-up for mfr's in labor and matl's costs. If you know what you're doing...you can buy the environmental spray in aerosol cans and treat the boards yourself. Don't over-do it...a little is all it takes.

(Yes... it's an irritation mfr's don't do this, but cheap is the word these days.)

So what you're saying is that the phenomenon generally known as corrosion, the problem that is already finding brand new ways to kick my Interstate butt here in our subtropical coastal county, can manifest in one MORE way, and even more devastatingly than all the other ways that I have enumerated thus far. This is fabulous news.
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Old 05-31-2017, 09:46 PM   #28
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Similar but not entirely. Process is rampant in presence of moisture (humidity) and voltage.
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