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Old 05-24-2018, 04:21 PM   #1
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Tire Issue

Replaced OEM tires with a set of Michelin Defenders LTX M/S. After some 25,000 miles we still have some 70% of thread left. However, the front tires show feathering on the inside or cupping as some might call it. The noise is awful and despite all the thread left, they are done.

Now, when these were installed, a front-end alignment was performed, which entailed setting the camber to 0.

Question: has anyone noticed feathering on the front tires? If yes, what brand?
Has anybody experienced inside feathering after camber was set to 0?

Michelin makes a great tire, albeit expensive. This issue however would lead me to revert to tires of similar build, though perhaps 60% of the price of LTX's. This especially since I replaced the OEM tires because of feathering.

Or is this perhaps a MB Sprinter issue?
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Old 05-24-2018, 04:36 PM   #2
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With 26,000 miles, all of my original tires practically look like new. Lots of tread and the tread is even.

I did get an alignment at about 20,000 miles and had the front tires road-balanced. The ride is smooth at all speeds.
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Old 05-24-2018, 04:43 PM   #3
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I would....ck f/e for play ie. ball joints, bad...worn shocks, wheel balance.

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Old 05-24-2018, 04:45 PM   #4
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Some posibles: Google search quotes.

When the shocks and/or struts are worn out, the car continues to bounce, causing the tires to momentarily leave the road surface. Besides being really unsafe, this bouncing can cause pieces of rubber to be gouged out of the tires, which is referred to as cupping or scalloping.

Even tire shops sometimes incorrectly identify feathering or heel-toe wear as cupping. A wheel that is out of balance may also cause cupping or bald spots to form, though there will be fewer hills and valleys than you'd see with cupping caused by a failed shock absorber. ... The cause was mainly underinflated tires.

No hands on knowledge here, but it sounds like you may have a vehicle repair needed.
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Old 05-24-2018, 05:08 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by felixkagi View Post
Or is this perhaps a MB Sprinter issue?
Agree with prior suggestions. I doubt tire brand has anything to do with it.

Though I don't have alignment spec's for Sprinter, prior similar experience tells me to start with the basics. balance & alignment. The alignment should expose any issues with the linkages, etc. Anything in front suspension can cause similar issues
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Old 05-24-2018, 05:25 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by felixkagi View Post
Now, when these were installed, a front-end alignment was performed, which entailed setting the camber to 0.
Is the camber at 0 what the specs call for? Did the shop actually know what they were doing? Any more, wheel alignments are a black art.
Out of balance won't cause inside wear, rather it produces cupping or flat spots. I'd check and see if the tow-in is set correctly, since that causes uneven wear.
Uneven wear is more noticeable with older tires because more of the tread is gone. Suddenly an area is bald!
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Old 05-24-2018, 07:11 PM   #7
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I had outside wear on outside front of my Continentals when run for the first 22,000 miles at the recommended 60 psi. Went to the tire shop for an alignment and he said it looked like low pressure was the problem. He said that Continentals liked more pressure so I upped in to 80 psi at his recommendation. I had the tires rotated and the 80 psi seemed to prevent the wear on the tires that were moved to the front.

(Some readers of this forum swear up and down that higher pressure couldn't have eliminated the wear, but all I know is what worked for me.)

Anyway, at 30,000 miles I dropped the pressure down to 75 psi and outside wear did not return. So somewhere between 60 and 75 psi seemed to work for the Continentals.

At 40,000 miles I put on new Michelin LTX Defenders. I have no complaints about them, but would not call them vastly superior to the Continentals. I have been running them at 75 psi for 10,000 miles now and do not see any uneven wear.

Camber was checked when I got the new tires and both sides were at +0.1. This is about what is recommended for heavily-loaded Sprinters.
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Old 05-24-2018, 09:52 PM   #8
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I had outside wear on outside front of my Continentals when run for the first 22,000 miles at the recommended 60 psi. Went to the tire shop for an alignment and he said it looked like low pressure was the problem. He said that Continentals liked more pressure so I upped in to 80 psi at his recommendation. I had the tires rotated and the 80 psi seemed to prevent the wear on the tires that were moved to the front.

(Some readers of this forum swear up and down that higher pressure couldn't have eliminated the wear, but all I know is what worked for me.)

Anyway, at 30,000 miles I dropped the pressure down to 75 psi and outside wear did not return. So somewhere between 60 and 75 psi seemed to work for the Continentals.

At 40,000 miles I put on new Michelin LTX Defenders. I have no complaints about them, but would not call them vastly superior to the Continentals. I have been running them at 75 psi for 10,000 miles now and do not see any uneven wear.

Camber was checked when I got the new tires and both sides were at +0.1. This is about what is recommended for heavily-loaded Sprinters.
I agree with you on running cold inflation pressure a bit higher both from anecdotal personal experience but we are probaly still in the minority. But after reading some very technical tire data I read from TIREMAN9, most notably this and some in his Tire Engineer's blog, I felt very re-assured of my personal choice in cold inflation pressure.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...-179201-4.html

I just put mine at CIP of 61psi +10% = 67 <--- which coincidentally falls in that mid-point of your between 60-75 range. For me, the easy match and TIREMAN9's credentials make me happy camper

TIREMAN9 does a wonderful job at explaining all this for the more techie folks to read.
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Old 05-25-2018, 01:38 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felixkagi View Post
Replaced OEM tires with a set of Michelin Defenders LTX M/S. After some 25,000 miles we still have some 70% of thread left. However, the front tires show feathering on the inside or cupping as some might call it. The noise is awful and despite all the thread left, they are done.



Or is this perhaps a MB Sprinter issue?

Along with other suggestions, you could also have a bent wheel from prior impact, over time it can wreak havoc on the entire front suspension. I was surprised to see the Sprinter van has McPherson struts on the front ends, they are more common in small cars, they must work double duty, as shock absorbers to dampen the ride but more importantly to also serve as upper control linkages of the suspension. An out of balance condition can put a lot of stress and wear on the struts, in turn causing more misalignment and loss of dampening and more bouncing, wheel counterweights flying off, you get the idea. Look for oil leak on the strut, loose tie rod ends, wheel trueness (hard to see if bent on the inside rim), etc. I think your tire showed the effect not the cause.
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Old 06-05-2018, 01:53 PM   #10
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Thanks for the various suggestions, had to be one of these problems.

After getting two new tires for the front, I had an appointment with a reputable, independent shop located out in the country, who has the ability and knowledge to align Sprinter vans. The owner looked at the old tires and pretty well knew what he was looking at.

Once the front wheels were up off the alignment rack, he called me over and had me hold the index finger onto the side of the tire, he then moved the wheel left and right. There it was, ever so light clacking. Tie rods worn, slight but enough to cause premature tire wear.

He said on a rear wheel drive vehicle the front wheels want to go (toe)out upon acceleration, where feathering occurs heavier on the inside than on the outside of the tire.
Front wheel drive is the opposite.

I mentioned that the RV has under 50K miles, upon which he replied "...... I'm gonna
install you lifetime tie rods not OEM". Well, so much for Mercedes quality.
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Old 06-05-2018, 03:23 PM   #11
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Define 'lifetime'. 😳
Make sure there is no time limit for submitting a claim. Read the fine print.👍
Alignment out of specs could cause tie-rod failure as could road hazards.
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Old 06-06-2018, 09:05 AM   #12
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Define 'lifetime'. 😳
Make sure there is no time limit for submitting a claim. Read the fine print.👍
Alignment out of specs could cause tie-rod failure as could road hazards.
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Yes I would nail the cause of failure to road conditions and hazards that anybody experiences driving high miles in any given year. It is sometimes difficult to avoid potholes going at 65 to 70mph down an interstate. It's a Sprinter not a Porsche.

OTOH I drive an American made SUV with which I frequently had work related off-road trips, no such issues, chew up tires yes.

"Lifetime" warranty, that is a tall order and no need to read the fine print. However, one would think that a manufacturer with such claims meant to produce and sell a quality product and is willing to stand behind it. There are indeed sellers that classify these parts as "Economy", "Daily Driver" and "Premium" so there must be something to it. I have to rely on the garage who does the work and probably doubles or triples the price of what they buy!?
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Old 06-08-2018, 08:10 AM   #13
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So we don't have a tire failure buy a failure on maintenance.


The Michelins have 25k on them how many miles on the vehicle? 50k 75k ?


How often did you rotate the tires? How often did you have alignment checked? What does your owner's manual suggest for having suspension checked? How often do you have the general condition of the running gear checked, Change Transmission and rear end fluid?


If properly maintained todays cars and trucks should be good for 100 to 150k miles BUT to get that number there are components that need maintenance and occasional replacement.
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Old 06-08-2018, 08:46 PM   #14
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So we don't have a tire failure buy a failure on maintenance.


The Michelins have 25k on them how many miles on the vehicle? 50k 75k ?


How often did you rotate the tires? How often did you have alignment checked? What does your owner's manual suggest for having suspension checked? How often do you have the general condition of the running gear checked, Change Transmission and rear end fluid?


If properly maintained todays cars and trucks should be good for 100 to 150k miles BUT to get that number there are components that need maintenance and occasional replacement.
Well, ............quite frankly I do not expect outer tie-rod ends to get play on a vehicle with 48k highway miles. So in my case, I'd call it a component issue.

Tire rotation every 5,000 miles on a Airstream Interstate with Alcoa rims? With dual rears, inner rim being steel, roatation needs a tire machine, re-balancing and a shop to do it. With shop rates as they are, not neccessarily cost effective.

Alignment check? Definitely if one can see uneven wear, otherwise with a set of new tires.
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