Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-26-2017, 02:18 PM   #1
2 Rivet Member
 
tlundell's Avatar
 
2015 Interstate Grand Tour
Los Gatos , California
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 95
Solar and Battery Upgrade for 2015 Interstate

I am coming up on 2.5 years of ownership of my 2015 Interstate Grand Tour, so I have saved up a few warranty fixit items justifying the long slog to the dealer dropoff and then again for pickup on completion. While there, the service tech told me that they had recently installed several upgrade packages for the Interstate electrical, including adding solar panels up to a total of 300W (mine has the single 100W panel), and adding two house batteries (for a total of four) in a rack to be installed from below. The turn-key cost is $1,000 per 100W solar panel, and $1,800 for the battery package. I would appreciate input on expectations of the degree of improvement of the dry-camping experience, and whether the cost is in the ballpark of "reasonable". Thanks!
Tim
__________________
Tim
2015 Interstate Grand Tour
WBCCI Member #5506
tlundell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2017, 05:51 PM   #2
Rivet Master
 
Boxster1971's Avatar

 
2024 Interstate 19
Fulton , Maryland
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,867
Cost seems reasonable for labor involved if they add a new solar controller. With 300 watts of solar and double batteries you should have reasonable dry-camping capability. I have 400 watts of solar with a Blue Sky MPPT controller and four 6 volt batteries for total of 440 AH capacity. I'm free to dry-camp as I wish.
__________________
- - Mike
--------------------------
2024 Airstream Interstate 19e AWD
Previous: 2013 Airstream Interstate 3500 Ext Lounge
Boxster1971 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2017, 08:04 PM   #3
Rivet Master
 
2016 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Bellevue , Washington
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 689
The battery upgrade is mandatory in my book as the system as is, is just not usable. In our area solar is not as useful so I am not big on that. I use the engine or generator if I need to charge my batteries.
amirm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2017, 08:52 PM   #4
Rivet Master
 
2006 22' Interstate
League City , Texas
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 698
Lew may or not be able to beat their price but I would trust his quality over a local RV shop. That said, the upgrades being proposed aren't that complicated and given the price of AGM batteries and the $100/hr labor rate at most RV shops, the battery upgrade may be reasonable. Without knowing much about the exact solar components, it's hard to judge that upgrade.
LB_3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2017, 08:40 AM   #5
Rivet Master
 
2013 Interstate Coach
Waterloo , Iowa
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,598
amirm:
I have never been impressed with using the engine to charge the AGM batteries. It does the charging via the Battery Isolation Manager, which does not have as smart/precise/efficient of charging routine as does the generator - which does its charging via that Magnum. I have considered running the engine alternator output through another Magnum-like charger. But I have not sat down to figure out the circuitry necessary to do this under all possible scenarios:
1) engine on or off
2) generator on or off
3) shore power connected or not
4) solar panels charging or not

Lewster can surely weigh-in on how/if to do this.
Titus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2017, 11:09 AM   #6
4 Rivet Member
 
2016 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Charleston , South Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 389
Blog Entries: 1
My 2016 has 2 dead batteries, and I have 300 watts of solar. You can multiply your input by three to get an idea of what it will bring in. My experience is that when you have direct sunlight, say from 11am to 1pm, you can leave the van on with the fridge/freezer running and the fantastic fan on and go to lunch and have the batteries at 100 percent upon returning. Otherwise, you don't have enough real estate to put enough panels up there to keep the system from depleting the batteries. I added a cargo box and a yamaha 2000 watt generator for when I can't find a plug in. the yamaha was able to run what i needed on a recent california trip on 2 nights where there was no electricity. i'm considering lithium. i need a solution.
coasttocoast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2017, 11:27 AM   #7
Rivet Master
 
toskeysam's Avatar

 
2013 Interstate Coach
Townsend , Tennessee
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 749
Quote:
Originally Posted by coasttocoast View Post
My 2016 has 2 dead batteries, and I have 300 watts of solar. You can multiply your input by three to get an idea of what it will bring in. My experience is that when you have direct sunlight, say from 11am to 1pm, you can leave the van on with the fridge/freezer running and the fantastic fan on and go to lunch and have the batteries at 100 percent upon returning. Otherwise, you don't have enough real estate to put enough panels up there to keep the system from depleting the batteries. I added a cargo box and a yamaha 2000 watt generator for when I can't find a plug in. the yamaha was able to run what i needed on a recent california trip on 2 nights where there was no electricity. i'm considering lithium. i need a solution.


I had 200 watts up top on my 2013 Ext Lounge. The Atkinson shunt-type controller is a dog and much sun exposure was lost simply because the batteries hadn't dropped low enough to start that controller. If that is what you have, simply (?) changing to a MPPT controller should help. I was going to do just that, but my power needs went higher.......So I jumped in all the way and had Lewster upgrade me to 400 watts, 480 ahrs of lithium, and 3000 watt inverter.
__________________
FMCA # 436814
toskeysam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2017, 11:37 AM   #8
Rivet Master
 
FlyFishinRVr's Avatar
 
2017 Interstate Lounge Ext
Northern , California
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,299
Cost of a 100W flexible solar panel like what comes stock is about $200 all-in (tax, delivery, etc). Cost of a good MPPT solar charge controller to properly handle the extra panels and do a MUCH better job of maintaining your batteries is about $300. So, adding 2 panels plus new controller is about $700 and they are quoting you $2000. That's $1300 in labor cost, and at the going $100/hr labor rate, equates to about 2 days worth of work. That's not outrageous, and actually seems reasonable given they need to clean the coach, glue the panels down, run new wiring, install a new junction box, install a new solar charge controller and remote monitor, then test everything. The math on the battery bank seems equally reasonable. To my eye, from a cost perspective this all pencils out.

The question you really need to ask yourself is what are your expectations from the upgrade (i.e. what are you trying to achieve)? You say "dry camping", but that can mean many different things to many different people. Is that 2 nights in the woods with light use of coach features and functions or a week off the grid with daily use of everything? For the former, you should be fine, whether you park in the sun or shade. For the latter....not so much.

Taking a quick look at the math:
- 4 Lifeline GPL24T batteries = 320AH, 160AH usable.
- 300W of solar = approx. 15AH in full sun, so maybe 60AH in a full day (optimistic I know).
- Fridge pulls approx. 1A/H, so there goes 24AH per day.
- Propane switch pulls 1A/H, so if you leave this on to run "stuff" (cooking by day, furnace by night, etc), there goes another 24AH per day.
- Not sure of the parasitic from the Magnum just sitting there "on", but I think 1A/H is close, so there's another 24AH per just to have your outlets hot and ready to run stuff (coffee pot, charge laptop, etc).

So, just having your coach fully "on" but not really doing anything, you'll be slowly drawing your batteries down even parked in full sun and having full sun every day.

I think reality is somewhere between these extremes. You need to do some math based on how YOU use your coach to decide if this mod is going to get you what you want.

I'll give you our use case as an example. For us, 300W of solar is fine because it would only be used to keep the batteries topped up when parked and not in use. I have no delusion that I'll be able to "live" off this little bit of sun power. When we camp, we don't park in the sun, so we're totally reliant on batteries. For our needs, 160AH wouldn't cut it. To go generator-free for a week, we'd need approx. 800AH of lithium (about 80% usable, so 600AH'ish). By removing the generator and propane tank (and that vulnerable fill/switch box!!!!) and switching to an induction cooktop and electric heat, we'll have the space we need to have this much battery power and the capacity to be off-grid for a week of boondocking FOR US. YMMV.
FlyFishinRVr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2017, 12:35 PM   #9
2 Rivet Member
 
tlundell's Avatar
 
2015 Interstate Grand Tour
Los Gatos , California
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyFishinRVr View Post
Cost of a 100W flexible solar panel like what comes stock is about $200 all-in (tax, delivery, etc). Cost of a good MPPT solar charge controller to properly handle the extra panels and do a MUCH better job of maintaining your batteries is about $300.
FFRV...What MPPT controller do you recommend? Dealer says existing controller is fine for 300W, so upgrade is not included. I want to push back with a specific unit to replace. Thanks.
Tim
__________________
Tim
2015 Interstate Grand Tour
WBCCI Member #5506
tlundell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2017, 12:40 PM   #10
Rivet Master
 
2016 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Bellevue , Washington
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Titus View Post
amirm:
I have never been impressed with using the engine to charge the AGM batteries. It does the charging via the Battery Isolation Manager, which does not have as smart/precise/efficient of charging routine as does the generator - which does its charging via that Magnum. I have considered running the engine alternator output through another Magnum-like charger. But I have not sat down to figure out the circuitry necessary to do this under all possible scenarios:
1) engine on or off
2) generator on or off
3) shore power connected or not
4) solar panels charging or not

Lewster can surely weigh-in on how/if to do this.
I am not bothered by that because I consider batteries "consumables." The engine charges at 100+ amp and Magnum can only do 25/50.

That said, there is a simple solution which is to buy a Sterling Battery to Battery charger. It comes in 120 amp versions which is what I am using for my Lithium bank but works with all battery chemistries: http://www.sterling-power-usa.com/BB...r12vto12v.aspx

It just goes in series with the engine/alternator feed so very simple to install.
amirm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2017, 01:28 PM   #11
Rivet Master
 
toskeysam's Avatar

 
2013 Interstate Coach
Townsend , Tennessee
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 749
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlundell View Post
FFRV...What MPPT controller do you recommend? Dealer says existing controller is fine for 300W, so upgrade is not included. I want to push back with a specific unit to replace. Thanks.
Tim


There are many out there. The one I looked at was. Blue Sky 3000i.
Your dealer may say the existing controller can handle 300 watts, and that may be true, from the current-carrying standpoint. The important thing is the type of controller. The Atkinson shunt-type controller will not come on until the batteries are down. An MPPT controller will check the batteries to see if they can accept a charge....not just have they drained down to a low set point. If the batteries can accept a charge, and sun is available, it charges your battery. You can get some background information via google.
__________________
FMCA # 436814
toskeysam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2017, 04:42 PM   #12
Rivet Master
 
FlyFishinRVr's Avatar
 
2017 Interstate Lounge Ext
Northern , California
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlundell View Post
FFRV...What MPPT controller do you recommend? Dealer says existing controller is fine for 300W, so upgrade is not included. I want to push back with a specific unit to replace. Thanks.
Tim
I looked at a bunch of them and I think my favorite is the Renogy 40A: https://www.renogy.com/renogy-40-amp...oller-w-mt-50/

The reason for this is 1) it's MPPT, and as others have pointed out, that means it's a bunch more efficient, but most importantly, it's programmable (more on that in a second), 2) it comes with the remote monitor, and 3) it's $249 all-in.

On the programmable bit, one of the biggest issues I face by having my Interstate stored outside in a lot with no shore power is keeping all of the batteries healthy (2 house + 1 chassis). As it turns out, the #1 culprit in them NOT being healthy is the stock charge controller (and I have everything turned off while the coach is sitting, including the fridge, propane switch, etc). The trouble is the stock charge controller (Atkinson) has a low voltage turn on of 12.6v. First, that's already 20% discharged (about 30AH), which is a lot for a single 100W solar panel to make up in a day (at 4-5A per hour max.....). But that's only part of the problem. The real devil is when you combine this with how the BIM works. It turns out the BIM won't connect the two battery banks together unless it sees 13v at the house batteries. Welllllll......if the solar controller is letting the house batteries go to 12.6v or less and can't get them back to 13v, then the BIM will never close. This means the chassis battery will never get charged by the solar and will just slowly die (some argue it will rapidly die thanks to the new Fusion infotainment system in the 17's, and I have to admit my chassis battery does discharge awfully fast). This has happened to MANY Interstate owners.

This sad story can all be avoided if the low voltage turn on point in the solar charge controller can be increased to, say, 13v! This way, the solar will basically keep the house batteries at least at 13v (assuming the sun is shining of course), so the BIM will keep the batteries connected and the chassis battery won't die a horrible death. Sadly, the Atkinson isn't programmable, so moving this set point requires a new charge controller that has this capability. Pretty much any MPPT controller can do this, so pick your favorite. IMO, for the money, the Renogy is hard to beat.
FlyFishinRVr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2017, 05:54 PM   #13
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples , Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlundell View Post
FFRV...What MPPT controller do you recommend? Dealer says existing controller is fine for 300W, so upgrade is not included. I want to push back with a specific unit to replace. Thanks.
Tim
Just a bit of 'opinion'.......

If you dealer 'thinks' that the Atkinson solar controller is an adequate solar charging device.....RUN!!!!!! It's akin to the Parallax single stage converter that Airstream insists on using on their travel trailer offerings.

That statement alone proves that they have very limited knowledge of what is required for a properly functioning RV solar charging system. NONE of the MPPT solar charge controllers that we use for installation allow the batteries to be depleted 20%+ before engaging the charge regimen. They function as soon as the sun begins to rise until it sets and the batteries are able to receive a charge. They are self limiting and will not overcharge your batteries or add amperage to the batteries after they have completed charging. Atkinson's charge algorithm means that your system is partially depleted when sun is readily available for charging....but the Atkinson waits until it allows that charging to begin......WASTING precious sunlight that could easily be re-charging your batteries from the prior evening's use from the moment that the sun's rays strike your solar array.

We use 2 manufacturers of solar controllers exclusively, as we have found over the many installations that we do that these are the best performing devices available for RV use.

The primary units that we use are from Victron Energy. They have the fastest MPPT sampling rate in the solar industry and will squeeze every available watt of energy from your solar array, as they continually search for and lock on to the maximum power point that your array is providing. They also are fully programmable with monitoring capabilities thru the Victron Connect app via your cell phone.

The workhorse products that we have been using for almost 15 years are from Blue Sky Energy. Great MPPT functionality and with their iPN-PRO remote, you get a fully functioning battery monitor system as well.

Both of these systems are fully programmable for any type of battery system.....from liquid cells to AGMs to lithium. Both have 5 year warranties and are readily available.

Tough choice............
__________________
lewster
Solar Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
Victron Solar Components and Inverters, Zamp Solar Panels, LiFeBlue and Battle Born Lithium Batteries, Lifeline AGM Batteries
lewster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2017, 08:21 PM   #14
2 Rivet Member
 
tlundell's Avatar
 
2015 Interstate Grand Tour
Los Gatos , California
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 95
Thanks, Lew...I always value your opinion, and I deduced what you would probably say from the comments of others above. So the dealer is going to replace the Atkinson with the Blue Sky 3000i MPPT controller suggested above and, ironically, which the dealer says they have installed for others.
Tim
__________________
Tim
2015 Interstate Grand Tour
WBCCI Member #5506
tlundell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2017, 09:23 AM   #15
c21
Rivet Master
 
2014 Interstate Coach
Arroyo Grande & Central Point , California & Oregon
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 624
[QUOTE=lewster;1917313]Just a bit of 'opinion'.......

If you dealer 'thinks' that the Atkinson solar controller is an adequate solar charging device.....RUN!!!!!! It's akin to the Parallax single stage converter that Airstream insists on using on their travel trailer offerings.

Lew, a good friend is picking up a New 2015 AI on Thursday. His should have the flex 100w panel. I don't know how much treasure he is willing to invest in upgrades but if he wanted to at least get away from the Atkinson charge controller is there a simple solution such as an MPPT controller that would mount in the vicinity of the Atkinson and feed a signal thru the existing phone cable to the remote indicator? I remember when I did mine I mounted the new controller where the indicator was and ran new cable to the batteries. The new cabling was a pretty big deal.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Bill
c21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2017, 05:34 PM   #16
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples , Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,508
[QUOTE=c21bill;1917541]
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster View Post
Just a bit of 'opinion'.......

If you dealer 'thinks' that the Atkinson solar controller is an adequate solar charging device.....RUN!!!!!! It's akin to the Parallax single stage converter that Airstream insists on using on their travel trailer offerings.

Lew, a good friend is picking up a New 2015 AI on Thursday. His should have the flex 100w panel. I don't know how much treasure he is willing to invest in upgrades but if he wanted to at least get away from the Atkinson charge controller is there a simple solution such as an MPPT controller that would mount in the vicinity of the Atkinson and feed a signal thru the existing phone cable to the remote indicator? I remember when I did mine I mounted the new controller where the indicator was and ran new cable to the batteries. The new cabling was a pretty big deal.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Bill
Best solution is to use a Victron 100/15 Blue Solar controller with their blue tooth dongle, which reads out on a smart phone via the Victron Connect app. Simply wire the charge controller to the panels, then to the batteries and plug in the dongle. That's all that's required ......... updates and firmware programming are done automatically from the phone at first contact. No wiring to a remote monitor panel.......... EASY!!!
__________________
lewster
Solar Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
Victron Solar Components and Inverters, Zamp Solar Panels, LiFeBlue and Battle Born Lithium Batteries, Lifeline AGM Batteries
lewster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2017, 08:15 PM   #17
c21
Rivet Master
 
2014 Interstate Coach
Arroyo Grande & Central Point , California & Oregon
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 624
[QUOTE=lewster;1917728]
Quote:
Originally Posted by c21bill View Post

Best solution is to use a Victron 100/15 Blue Solar controller with their blue tooth dongle, which reads out on a smart phone via the Victron Connect app. Simply wire the charge controller to the panels, then to the batteries and plug in the dongle. That's all that's required ......... updates and firmware programming are done automatically from the phone at first contact. No wiring to a remote monitor panel.......... EASY!!!
Sounds like an easy solution Lew. Thanks much.
Bill
c21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 04:54 AM   #18
Rivet Master
 
2013 Interstate Coach
Waterloo , Iowa
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,598
question to amirm (or Lewster orothers) on using the Sterling charger 'in series' with the engine alternator:

I assume that 'in series' means the wire between the engine alternator and the BIM. If this is in fact what is meant, wouldn't the BIM shut off the attempted charging before the AGM's reach 100% charge? I think I want to essentially bypass the BIM when the engine is running and let the engine alternator charge the AGM's per their desired charging routine BUT keep the BIM (or something) to allow shore power or solar or LPG generator to charge the chassis battery if it is low.
Titus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 08:32 PM   #19
Rivet Master
 
2016 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Bellevue , Washington
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 689
You make a good point. In my Lithium conversion I did away with the BIM. Since the Sterling won't let backfeed into the engine battery, it would have to be outside of the BIM control anyway.

The BIM has such convoluted logic that I would have to think through to make sure everything works if you bypass it that way. Alternatively you could shoot it in the head and remove it like I have . Chances of main chassis battery dying is so low that I don't worry about losing that functionality.
amirm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 08:53 PM   #20
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples , Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,508
Agreed!

I have also been removing the Precision Circuits BIM in almost every Interstate upgrade that I do. You can easily re-purpose the solenoid by removing the black epoxy control box on the outside of the BIM and keep the ability to link the chassis battery and house battery bank for emergency battery boost for engine starting via the dash push button switch.

Other then that, lithiums preclude it's use as a battery charging portal due to the incompatibility of the voltage settings.
__________________
lewster
Solar Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
Victron Solar Components and Inverters, Zamp Solar Panels, LiFeBlue and Battle Born Lithium Batteries, Lifeline AGM Batteries
lewster is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2015 Interstate suspension upgrade gambita Sprinter and B-van Forum 60 05-31-2019 07:30 AM
Inverter and Solar upgrade Vycan Classic Motorhomes 43 12-06-2017 10:00 PM
Battery Upgrade on our 2015 25' FB Flying Cloud rasjad Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 2 05-21-2015 11:08 AM
Converter,battery and solar upgrade SilverSinbad Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 2 01-19-2015 10:57 AM
Battery and Univolt upgrade report - 1981 280 MoHo outofcontrol Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 5 03-22-2009 06:29 AM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.