Service Bulletin 164 - Battery Draw

[lewster]

Originally Posted by amirm

Thanks to the new info from Lew, seemed like implementing this relay was the right solution. Here is the right setup in my 2016 with dual bunk beds:



Visible is the Magnum inverter (the larger box) and the offending unit, the shiny metallic object to its left. The darn thing was cooking so much that 10 minutes after disconnecting it, it was still too hot to touch the nuts!



I have a set of insulated Wiha sockets that allowed me to remove the connections without disconnecting the battery negative. I was super careful, as the red large cable remains fully energized as noted earlier even with the DC disconnect. So if you are a less lazy person than me, I highly recommend crawling under the van and disconnecting the wires there.

The relay Coder mentions above comes with four control wires. You only need two of them: the black for ground and purple for the switch. The Orange is only used if you have a momentary manual switch. The ones in our AS is toggle so we don't use that. And the white is an indicator for a light and such which we don't need.

Connection therefore will be the white wire from the old solenoid which goes directly to the ground, to the black wire on the new. And the old blue wire to purple on the new relay. I cut the ring connectors and put in Ancor marine butt spliced adhesive connectors. A bit of heat gun application makes the connections waterproof. Wish the new relay had connectors instead of wires but it does not. I will likely redo this when I switch to Lithium.

Mounting the new relay was problematic because it is much larger that the old solenoid:



I had to put it further back so that it would not cut into the messy wire bundle that Airstream has given us. I only had room to put screws on one side of the flange. As it happens, the wheel well rises on the other side and supports it. To make sure it did not cut into the insulation, I put in three strips of good electrical tape under it to make it non-abrasive and provide some cushioning. Using nice set of aggressive stainless steel screws, a washer and a locking one, it became more secure than I expected! Maybe LB_3 can come up with a better solution .

The large size means this thing cruises. With just a couple of hundred watts of load on the inverter, it did not even remotely change temperature. Voltage drop was non-existent between the terminals. And current consumption too low to be measurable by my DC clamp meter.

The project was part fun, part dissapointment. Fun in being able to improve something. Disappointment was having to fix a clear flaw that I should not have had to do.

By the way, I remeasured the power drop with the old solenoid that it was around 10 watts! Not sure why I measured less last time. Today I had the van out in a parking lot for hours and single solar panel had no trouble keeping both the fridge and freezer going. This relay was a big power consumer to be sure.

Thanks much to Coder for finding this solution. And again to Lew for helpful info on the Magnum.

Ahhhhh!...........the Airstream 'Rat's Nest'!!!

So many wires........so little time to bundle and loom them properly!!!!!

I am in the final stages of a total electrical upgrade on a new 30 International and it had a similar nest of wires at the front where themes bars are located.

Here is the 'after' shot. I don't have the heart to take a 'before' picture....

[LB_3]

Lew, always a show-off setting the standard for the rest of us.

[lewster]

😄. Have to keep you guys in line!!!


Lew Farber
RVIA/RVDA Nationally Certified Master Tech
ABYC Certified Master Marine Electrician
Master Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
AM Solar Certified Installations
Lifeline AGM Batteries**Magnum Inverters***Victron Energy Components
541-490-6357

[lewster]

GOOD NEWS!!!

It seems that Airstream has finally gotten the message about the horrors of the SB-164

While tearing down a new (2016) Grand Tour EXT, I did not find the dreaded $7.95 solenoid that Airstream has been using for their 'update' to the inverter wiring. What I did find was a second automatic disconnect switch that was wired into the control circuit at the side door that had the inverter positive cable running thru it.

Interesting solution!!!!!

Of course, the rat's nest (must be the same rat that is doing all of this rummy wiring!!!! ) will be totally re-done once the project is completed. 2 Victron 200 Ah lithiums with 12/200 BMS, Twin Victron Orion DC to DC converters to allow for 60 amp alternator charging of the lithiums, Magnum MS-2012 inverter/charger, Blue Sky solar charge controller and 400 watts of solar, along with a host of other 'goodies' !

Just thought that the AI crowd would like to know that Airstream IS listening to the complaints posted here........at leads we hope so!!!

Here's what it looks like:

[amirm]

That's good news!

While I am posting this, do NOT use the solid state switch mentioned earlier. It does not work in this application. Using a motorized switch as the new wiring Lew post is the right solution. Sans the rat's nest of course .

[lewster]

And no......I didn't write this while inebriated! Auto-correct does like to have it's way on occasion though ......

[J&J In A Can]

That's the same solution I came up with, except I used a manual switch. When boondocking, I just turn the inverter off since it and the charger are not doing anything but wasting power anyway. If (when) the batteries get low, just turn it on and start the generator. Turn it back off when finished. The refrigerator even seems to use less power on 12Vdc. It's hard to tell.

[amirm]

Originally Posted by LoveToWander

The refrigerator even seems to use less power on 12Vdc. It's hard to tell.

I disconnected its AC power cord for that reason.

[tk.1217]

I had Airstream put this modification in last week on my 2016 AI GT. Works like a charm. Lewster, I haven't given up on getting you to do the solar/lithium project. Saving up for the work which I should be ready for at the end of the year.

Ready for a great year of camping.

[73shark]

Originally Posted by LoveToWander

The refrigerator even seems to use less power on 12Vdc. It's hard to tell.

That's because it is basically a 12V unit that converts 120V AC to 12V DC when AC is available which if the AI is on battery power, means a double conversion w/ the losses entailed in doing that. Best to run on 12V only. In fact, some here have unplugged the 120V AC plug for this reason.

[GETRIDAONE]

I added a visual reminder light so you will see it on the way out the door. You are either plugged in to shore power, " if not ". Oops I forgot to turn off the inverter.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by GETRIDAONE

I added a visual reminder light so you will see it on the way out the door. You are either plugged in to shore power, " if not ". Oops I forgot to turn off the inverter.

Nice job - great idea.

[TayaraTravel]

I don't know if anybody else has confirmed this, so let me offer my observation: this photo seems to match my factory-ordered 2017 AI delivered end of April, so it looks like this is the way they are coming from the factory these days.

Originally Posted by lewster

GOOD NEWS!!!

It seems that Airstream has finally gotten the message about the horrors of the SB-164

While tearing down a new (2016) Grand Tour EXT, I did not find the dreaded $7.95 solenoid that Airstream has been using for their 'update' to the inverter wiring. What I did find was a second automatic disconnect switch that was wired into the control circuit at the side door that had the inverter positive cable running thru it.

Interesting solution!!!!!

Of course, the rat's nest (must be the same rat that is doing all of this rummy wiring!!!! ) will be totally re-done once the project is completed. 2 Victron 200 Ah lithiums with 12/200 BMS, Twin Victron Orion DC to DC converters to allow for 60 amp alternator charging of the lithiums, Magnum MS-2012 inverter/charger, Blue Sky solar charge controller and 400 watts of solar, along with a host of other 'goodies' !

Just thought that the AI crowd would like to know that Airstream IS listening to the complaints posted here........at leads we hope so!!!

Here's what it looks like:

[TayaraTravel]

Here is the photo of my 2017:

[swilly43]

Wonderful information and discussion. I have a 2016 GT Ext that does not have the relay or the extra automatic battery switch. I have decided to add the Blue Sea M Series switch as I have no issues with remembering to turn it off during non use or turning it on when needed or when plugged into shore power. I have 200W solar with the stock Lifeline batteries. So far it does what I want it to do but requires diligence to monitor the power. Will eventually upgrade to Lithium once I have all the data I need and time to do the install. Still waffling a bit on the battery location. I would prefer to put them in the same location (below coach) as the lifelines but need to change the battery holder. Recent discussion about dangling batteries means I want to be confident in the solution. Lower weight is a plus but the form factor means a change regardless. Thanks to all who work hard to find and post this information.

I am confident that AS does listen and respond and would defend the engineers a bit. As an engineer myself I have seen many instances where solutions are dictated by someone other than the engineer assigned to solve the issue. Not always but often enough.

[swilly43]

I installed an M-Series battery switch from Blue Sea in the positive cable to the inverter so that I can remove all power to the inverter and save the 250-300mA draw even when the inverter is off. I installed the switch on the panel below the cup holder on the street side between the lounge and jump street, I chose black.

I removed the short jumper from the input to the 150 amp fuse at the inverter and positive terminal of the house BIM terminal and repositioned the Cable 5 (2g red) from the input of the 150 A fuse to the house BIM connection. The other end remained connected to the bus bar that has the solar input. This way, the solar will still charge the house when the switch is off and allow the automatic battery switch at the coach entrance to function normally.

I made two new 1/0 cables of 28 and 32 inches in length to run from the house battery BIM connection to the switch and then to the input of the 150 A fuse to the inverter.

I am happy to report that after several overnight tests the batter monitor shows, zero amps and zero amp hours of discharge during the 12 plus hours of darkness and still shows 100% battery!

I measured 25mV of voltage drop across the switch at 120A to test the switch operation. Within spec.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by swilly43

I installed an M-Series battery switch from Blue Sea in the positive cable to the inverter so that I can remove all power to the inverter and save the 250-300mA draw even when the inverter is off. I installed the switch on the panel below the cup holder on the street side between the lounge and jump street, I chose black.

I removed the short jumper from the input to the 150 amp fuse at the inverter and positive terminal of the house BIM terminal and repositioned the Cable 5 (2g red) from the input of the 150 A fuse to the house BIM connection. The other end remained connected to the bus bar that has the solar input. This way, the solar will still charge the house when the switch is off and allow the automatic battery switch at the coach entrance to function normally.

I made two new 1/0 cables of 28 and 32 inches in length to run from the house battery BIM connection to the switch and then to the input of the 150 A fuse to the inverter.

I am happy to report that after several overnight tests the batter monitor shows, zero amps and zero amp hours of discharge during the 12 plus hours of darkness and still shows 100% battery!

I measured 25mV of voltage drop across the switch at 120A to test the switch operation. Within spec.

Nice work. I need to do the same when it warms up in the spring. Too cold to work outside now. We expect snow tomorrow.

[swilly43]

The revised schematic