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Old 05-13-2016, 02:25 PM   #57
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Flash Back to 1985

I couldn't help but notice that the solenoid used by Airstream in SB164, as posted by Mcrider, looks a lot like the solenoid in a 1985 345 motorhome, posted by Flysoncloud, discussed in a new thread, "Battery Gremlin" under the General Motorhome Topics.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f160...in-150558.html

Here are both items; one 2016 the other 1985.

I guess Airstream hasn't done much high tech in last 30 years.

- - Mike
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Old 05-13-2016, 02:59 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Mcrider View Post
I read it the same way. The no-load Magnum draw with Inverter On is 1.6amps. With inverter off, 0.4 amps. TheDCLD does not shutdown the charger. I've ordered it.
Looking forward to hearing your results once you get the DCLD installed.

I ran a quick test with the manual switch on my MS2000 inverter unit. It only turns the inverter on and off. With it turned off at the inverter unit the remote display is still functioning and the standby current is still about 0.4A. So hopefully this DCLD accessory will reduce that to less than 0.1A.

While I was at it I made a measurement with my BSS M-series disconnect turned off. In my modified setup this disconnects everything but the solar controller and BIM, so batteries stay charged from the sun. The Blue Sky Pro-Remote was showing 0.1A with backlight on and about 0.05A with backlight off as it flickered between 0.1-0.0A. Now I'm getting into the limits of my installed meter.

If the DCLD could reduce the drain to mA, that would be an order of magnitude less. Not the uA mentioned by LB_3, but low enough to be less of an issue.

- - Mike
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Old 05-13-2016, 07:29 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxster1971 View Post
I couldn't help but notice that the solenoid used by Airstream in SB164, as posted by Mcrider, looks a lot like the solenoid in a 1985 345 motorhome, posted by Flysoncloud, discussed in a new thread, "Battery Gremlin" under the General Motorhome Topics.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f160...in-150558.html

Here are both items; one 2016 the other 1985.

I guess Airstream hasn't done much high tech in last 30 years.

- - Mike
That solenoid looks like the starter solenoid on older Ford products.
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Old 05-13-2016, 08:09 PM   #60
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That solenoid looks like the starter solenoid on older Ford products.
BINGO!!! You win the internet today!!!
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Old 05-13-2016, 10:13 PM   #61
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Not the uA mentioned by LB_3, but low enough to be less of an issue.

- - Mike
My post was comparing the current draw of modern solid state relays with the old Ford style starter relays.

When I eventually rewire our van I'm going to go with a stand alone inverter and a stand alone single stage charger to separate the loads from the charging function. The solid state relay will be used to turn off the loads only.

Speaking of ford solenoids, here is one on a 65 Mustang:

Not much has changed in the RV industry in the past 50+ years. These types of relays were never designed for continous loads. They were designed for thousands of cycles of a few seconds each.
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Old 05-13-2016, 10:58 PM   #62
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That solenoid looks like the starter solenoid on older Ford products.

... And I have to believe this solenoid is not rated for continuous operation they way Airstream has installed it.


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Old 05-13-2016, 11:03 PM   #63
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..... Not much has changed in the RV industry in the past 50+ years. These types of relays were never designed for continous loads. They were designed for thousands of cycles of a few seconds each.

LB_3: Didn't see your post before I sent mine. We are thinking alike. This is NOT a solenoid rated for continuous operation. Tomorrow I'm going to dig up some specs on this thing.


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Old 05-14-2016, 09:24 AM   #64
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There are several options for this purpose starting with Intellitec. they make the battery disconnect solenoid that Airstream uses in their trailers. They are LATCHING solenoids that don't require continual power to stay operational.

Other places to look are Blue Sea Systems and Marinco, along with others. Both BSS and Marinco make remote battery disconnect systems that would also work well.

If you are using the Magnum MMS-1012, you will need a continual amperage rating of 200 amps. For a MS-2012, 300 amps.

I still like my BSS-M-Series manual switch!
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Old 05-14-2016, 10:42 AM   #65
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Old ford? This should be a continuous duty ..easy to change.
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Old 05-14-2016, 11:34 AM   #66
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This morning I looked up the details of the solenoid used in SB164. Thanks to the nice photo posted by coder in this thread:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f240...aw-147165.html

I was able to determine the part number from the photo as SAS 4202. A quick Goggle search gave to this technical data sheet:
http://www.texasindustrialelectric.com/pdf/SAS_4202.pdf

Good news - it is rated for continuous duty at 200A, that's plenty for this application.

Bad news - it requires 10 watts (0.83A) to hold the contacts closed and keep the inverter/charger powered. That make an already dismal design for running off batteries alone even worse.

- - Mike
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Old 05-14-2016, 12:40 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Boxster1971 View Post
This morning I looked up the details of the solenoid used in SB164. Thanks to the nice photo posted by coder in this thread:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f240...aw-147165.html

I was able to determine the part number from the photo as SAS 4202. A quick Goggle search gave to this technical data sheet:
http://www.texasindustrialelectric.com/pdf/SAS_4202.pdf

Good news - it is rated for continuous duty at 200A, that's plenty for this application.

Bad news - it requires 10 watts (0.83A) to hold the contacts closed and keep the inverter/charger powered. That make an already dismal design for running off batteries alone even worse.

- - Mike
That's a good find. But even worse news is that the 10 watt is just for the coil. The contacts themselves drop 0.1 volt at 50 amps. That's another 5 watt of loss at that current. At 15 watts this thing will be a mini heater for cold nights!

All these problems have been sorted out in boats forever. A disconnect switch as suggested would have been the right solution.
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Old 05-14-2016, 12:59 PM   #68
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Someone mentioned my name...

I removed the SAS 4202. I only measured mine once when it was still installed and after it had failed (the "No Com" failure). From outside the box, through the mesh screen on top, after it had been off for a while, its temperature was over 200F. (...making Airstream's "fix" for the battery drain problem, SB 164, a life-threatening fire hazard. You're sleeping right on top of it.)

How about this instead:

Cole Hersee #48521
Solid State Electronic Relay, wired to be Normally Open
200A at 12V
2 mA quiescent
Splash & vibration resistant, low noise (SAE J1455)
5" x 6" x 3"
$95 on Amazon
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Old 05-14-2016, 01:12 PM   #69
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P.S. And before anyone complains that I didn't warn everyone on the forums that SB-164 was a potential fire hazard, I communicated my concerns about SB-164 directly to Airstream.
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Old 05-14-2016, 01:29 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coder View Post
Someone mentioned my name...

I removed the SAS 4202. I only measured mine once when it was still installed and after it had failed (the "No Com" failure). From outside the box, through the mesh screen on top, after it had been off for a while, its temperature was over 200F. (...making Airstream's "fix" for the battery drain problem, SB 164, a life-threatening fire hazard. You're sleeping right on top of it.)

How about this instead:

Cole Hersee #48521
Solid State Electronic Relay, wired to be Normally Open
200A at 12V
2 mA quiescent
Splash & vibration resistant, low noise (SAE J1455)
5" x 6" x 3"
$95 on Amazon
Agree on heat. As they saying goes, you can send someone to moon on 5 watt . Wasting this much energy is just wrong.

I have not taken delivery of my AS yet (next week!) so don't know the answer to this. From the pictures, it doesn't seem like there is enough room for this switch where they put their relay. Is there?
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