Raining in our Interstate - You Too??

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Denis4x4

My LTV Unity came with a 100 page loose leaf owner's binder specific to my model that included not only all of the components, but the serial numbers of said components and the name of the employee who signed off on the installation.

That is excellent, especially if you use that list and send a message to the company every time you have non-routine maintenance done, telling them that "Joe Blow's" work was sub-par.

[avanti]

I am a former owner of an Airstream Interstate, and was once a frequent contributor to this list. I was more or less hounded off of the forum by a particular member who took offense at my occasional negative (although always factual and constructive) comments about Airstream quality issues. He seemed to believe that this was an "enthusiast" site, and that criticism was out of bounds. I have no interest in insinuating myself where I am not welcome, so I have stayed away since then. For old times' sake, I decided to stop by this evening. I was amused that this was first thread I came across. I will not make a habit of this, but in fairness to those who come here looking for objective opinions, I want to add my voice to those honest enough to admit just how poor Thor build quality really is. The Airstream brand is very cool, and the designs and components are typically first rate. But the Interstate is among the most expensive mass-produced B-vans on the market, and IMO the build quality is inexcusable. The list of issues in my van read like "amateur hour". Those of you who choose to drink the Cool Aid can believe what you like, but the fact is that there are FAR better options on the market available to those who shop objectively. Thor is riding on a great brand, but a great brand is not the same as a great product. The Interstate may be a good choice for some, but only those who are willing to fix (or get fixed) what should have been done right at the factory.

[Lily&Me]

Sad, sad, sad.....and the same old story I've been reading here for years.

Used to be just the trailers we heard about with these problems.

Maybe the Interstate have become victim over the years, as more have been produced.

Once we resolved the install issues on the roof, we have been fine.

Off the line with QC issues......return, return, return to get them fixed.



Maggie

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by avanti

...He seemed to believe that this was an "enthusiast" site, and that criticism was out of bounds. ....

I've seen evidence of this behavior and it annoys me. My take is, post the actual information about what's going on with mechanical and build issues, conveying experiences and opinions with photos if possible, with everyone else being grown up enough to generate within themselves an a priori realization that they are NOT the same as every other buyer's outcomes. Even if 9 out of 10 owners don't experience the same failures or quality issues, issue-specific threads are not written for the casual entertainment of that majority - they are written for the people who are seeking resolution of specific issues. And with mass production, specific issues tend to repeat from unit to unit, which is why it's important to convey the information.

I don't know what is to be gained by efforts to interject the waving of pom-poms into this process. Of course, the same argument could be made about the interjection of the inevitable grumbling, but I find it easier to forgive those who are adversely affected by apparent product defects than those who would hope to invalidate or at least minimize those owners' objections to defects.

I most appreciate those comments which could be construed as "critical" while conveying additional information. For instance the person who responded that LTV's quality control process is apparently different from Airstream's... that comment prompted me to glance at the 2015 Free Spirit. LTV has made some interesting changes and product directional decisions. It's a data point I'll keep in the back of my mind for future reference. At this point my husband and I intend to keep customizing our existing Interstate over the long term, but things can change. Who knows? The point is, I have the data courtesy of the thread comment.

[Ron_CA]

Originally Posted by avanti

I am a former owner of an Airstream Interstate, and was once a frequent contributor to this list. I was more or less hounded off of the forum by a particular member who took offense at my occasional negative (although always factual and constructive) comments about Airstream quality issues. He seemed to believe that this was an "enthusiast" site, and that criticism was out of bounds. I have no interest in insinuating myself where I am not welcome, so I have stayed away since then. For old times' sake, I decided to stop by this evening. I was amused that this was first thread I came across. I will not make a habit of this, but in fairness to those who come here looking for objective opinions, I want to add my voice to those honest enough to admit just how poor Thor build quality really is. The Airstream brand is very cool, and the designs and components are typically first rate. But the Interstate is among the most expensive mass-produced B-vans on the market, and IMO the build quality is inexcusable. The list of issues in my van read like "amateur hour". Those of you who choose to drink the Cool Aid can believe what you like, but the fact is that there are FAR better options on the market available to those who shop objectively. Thor is riding on a great brand, but a great brand is not the same as a great product. The Interstate may be a good choice for some, but only those who are willing to fix (or get fixed) what should have been done right at the factory.

Agree that there are lots of documented problems with these vans. I do think it is more obvious with Airstream than with other manufacturers because of airforums.

[Tao]

Here is the Given:
I've owned 4 Sprinter based conversions: Roadtrek Agile, Roadtrek Adventurous, Great West Vans Legend EX and now the 2016 Grand Tour. Also owned 2 new American Eagles and one Dream. I've also had 3 Airstream trailers, 16, 19 and 22 Intl's. All this is to demonstrate that I've seen more than most folks and I'm a realist when it comes to what I expect from any product.

Hey, I like toys, not Golf, Drinking or chasing anyone but my wife, and I can afford it!

Now ALL, that's not some, but ALL of the initial three Sprinters had problems. All of which was related to QC at the factory. The RoadTrek was the worse by far, yet they claim to be the number one seller - go figure. GWV was exceptionally good BUT when there was a problem the dealer support was nonexistent (and is even worse today).

Before I buy anything I take it apart. On RV's, I pull out drawers and look at what is behind the scenes, etc.

Now, the GT looks good and my first impression on our drive home from the dealer in Orlando to Atlanta then home in Chapel Hill, NC is positive of the unit we have. I expect there to be problems (I've already posted our first problem - Back up camera comes on when you hit the Hazard switch - that's entertaining and a creative bug!) that will require fixing and could have been avoided IF the factory had used Robots to build the thing, not folks like you and I. But, we do want to keep the Unemployment numbers down don't we?

In short, I use this forum to learn about the paths others have taken to self resolve the problems from a device created by humans and managed by lesser quality humans. I'll fix the problem myself but hope to find someone who has experienced it before me and learn from them. I have no problems with NIH logic (not invented here). Doesn't have to be my solution.

Back when I had my software business, I had one chap who was very sharp. His ONLY task was to spend the day trying to break the code/software in any way possible. This was the best money I ever spent on development and produced a environment with the programmers that if they did it incorrectly, my "virtual customer" would find it and I'd know about it. QC was assured and product was bullet proof.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Airstream needs to have a "Town Hall Meeting" right here on the Forums to address all the Quality Control problems with their new products.....no wait....never mind.


Bob

[UKDUDE]

I make sure that every issue - large and small - that I experience during the warranty period is passed back to the dealer. The dealer has to refer it Airstream for warranty authorization and repair costs. The costs can be pretty high at dealer labor rates, so Airstream cannot ignore this drain on their profits.

[Lily&Me]

One could easily draw the conclusion that Airstream simply doesn't care about Quality Control.

Shame on them.


Maggie

[Tao]

Originally Posted by Lily&Me

One could easily draw the conclusion that Airstream simply doesn't care about Quality Control.

Shame on them.


Maggie

I'd have to challenge you on that statement. They are a corporation, which through the wisdom of our Supreme Court, has all the rights of a person. Now, being a person myself, that means we are obligated to screw up from time to time.

Key is, what you do about what you learn. My bet is that Airstream will resolve the problems BUT, with all issues involving "problems", as fast as you fix one, two will pop up to replace it.

As I said in an earlier post, the GWVan was extremely well built but could not, and has not, been able to build a support network to handle even the smallest problem in the vast majority of states in the USA. That is why I did NOT purchase another GWV.

In short, we all have to work to communicate to Airstream, even as a collective group, what they need to be attune to resolving in order to get our NEXT purchase. They already have us, but can they keep us?

[Ron_CA]

Tao glad you posted about your experience with different makes. Seems as if some here believe it is just Airstream that has quality control issues.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by Tao

I'd have to challenge you on that statement. They are a corporation, which through the wisdom of our Supreme Court, has all the rights of a person. Now, being a person myself, that means we are obligated to screw up from time to time.

Key is, what you do about what you learn. My bet is that Airstream will resolve the problems BUT, with all issues involving "problems", as fast as you fix one, two will pop up to replace it.

As I said in an earlier post, the GWVan was extremely well built but could not, and has not, been able to build a support network to handle even the smallest problem in the vast majority of states in the USA. That is why I did NOT purchase another GWV.

In short, we all have to work to communicate to Airstream, even as a collective group, what they need to be attune to resolving in order to get our NEXT purchase. They already have us, but can they keep us?

Originally Posted by Ron_CA

Tao glad you posted about your experience with different makes. Seems as if some here believe it is just Airstream that has quality control issues.

....It is, as it's always been. You need quality to have control. Pride your job shows in the results.

Dream on...

Bob

[Boxster1971]

Here is an example that this problem is not limited to Airstream. Leaking in a 2015 Roadtrek.
http://sprinter-source.com/forum/sho...d.php?p=384413


- - Mike
2013 Interstate Lounge EXT on 2012 Sprinter

[Boxster1971]

Or this one from a 2014 Winnebago ERA.
http://sprinter-source.com/forum/sho...d.php?p=382121


- - Mike
2013 Interstate Lounge EXT on 2012 Sprinter

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

Or this one from a 2014 Winnebago ERA.
Water leaks in our 2014 ERA 70A - Sprinter-Forum


- - Mike
2013 Interstate Lounge EXT on 2012 Sprinter

I don't recall hearing anyone try to claim or insinuate that Airstream was the only producer with problems. It is common knowledge that they ALL have problems. As my father jokes at me, "My buddy told me that he only had two happy days with his RV... the day he bought it, and the day he sold it!" RVs are universally a pain in the a$$ during many of those moments when you're not otherwise enjoying the hell out of them.


What some folks were objecting to was the implied notion that we shouldn't take the problems too seriously. Problems are problems - they need to be discussed, expounded, hashed out, and ultimately fixed.

Part of what's happening lately is perhaps the result of a tipping point of sorts. I've been told previously that Sprinter and B Van Forum has grown substantially in the past year or two. Well, guess what? More users means more problems brought to light. Perhaps more importantly, more users also means more DIYers, especially given that the Interstate product fleet is now passed the decade mark in age. And DIYers have a special way of killing the ignorance-is-bliss factor for everyone involved.


The next time someone gripes about a problem and it seems like maybe there is altogether too much griping, ask yourself this: Who is more likely to save you money? The cheerleader who says "Don't worry, be happy, enjoy your Interstate" or the person who says "OMG, I just crawled under my chassis and you won't believe what I found..."

[Lily&Me]

I think there is a difference between QC issues, which tremendously affect quality of ownership and traveling life, and unrealistic expectations. We have had both here.

The former is indefensible, in my opinion, regardless of the maker, while the latter brings about a less impassioned response from me.

If you are in a conversion van with very small living space, complaining that the AC is loud is a glass half empty focus that does nothing to promote enjoyment or quality of life.

It is also not a discussion I personally will encourage nor give attention to.

Deciding what are real issues, and what are unrealistic expectations, is ultimately something everyone has to decide for themselves, regardless of what any of the rest of us think.

Our Interstate had some QC issues. I remain an impassioned Interstate owner, 8+ years later.


Maggie

[gmillerok1]

With your experience with other manufacturers, please let us know how the Grand Tour compares to the others after a few trips.

Originally Posted by Tao

Here is the Given:
I've owned 4 Sprinter based conversions: Roadtrek Agile, Roadtrek Adventurous, Great West Vans Legend EX and now the 2016 Grand Tour. Also owned 2 new American Eagles and one Dream. I've also had 3 Airstream trailers, 16, 19 and 22 Intl's. All this is to demonstrate that I've seen more than most folks and I'm a realist when it comes to what I expect from any product....

[Tao]

Originally Posted by gmillerok1

With your experience with other manufacturers, please let us know how the Grand Tour compares to the others after a few trips.

We drove from Orlando RV to Atlanta then home to Chapel Hill, NC.
First, we only slept in it one night and cooked no meals in it BUT I will say that I felt the stability on the road was substantially better then Roadtrek or GWV. Basically very little sway and no wandering down the highway.

As we get more time actually using it on 3-4 week trips, I'll report back.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by Lily&Me

...

If you are in a conversion van with very small living space, complaining that the AC is loud is a glass half empty focus that does nothing to promote enjoyment or quality of life.

...

Maggie

I disagree, and strongly.

People have "complained" that the generator is loud, and guess what?? There is a workaround for that!! An improvement that can be made!

People have "complained" that the water pump is loud, and guess what?? There is a workaround for that, too!!

I have "complained" that the T1N Sprinter cab is too loud (road noise) for a proper stereo experience, and music is important to me on long trips when I'm driving solo and I need music to keep myself alert. Guess what?? To my absolute delight, there is a workaround for that, and I will be tackling it shortly. Talk about promoting enjoyment and quality of life!

On the issue of the A/C, maybe there is a workaround and maybe there is not, but if those posters are shut down, discouraged, or invalidated before they can even get an honest evaluation of their concern, then nobody learns a blessed thing and we are all poorer as a result.

[avanti]

+1 InterBlog. And, if I may expand your point: The kinds of fixes that you describe are available not just to us users, but they are available to Airstream as well. IMO, the fact that Thor chooses to sell their B-vans under an iconic brand, and that they choose to price them near the very top of the market makes it incumbent upon them to put a little effort into it. This means both fixing their quality problems (which they have not done in a decade in the market) and it also means investing R&D to help the market develop better solutions. Instead, they play follower instead of leader on both of these fronts, leaving the innovation to Advanced RV, RoadTrek, and Great West.

This is also why I get annoyed when people say "they all have problems". This is true, but if you lead the market in brand and price, you can't afford to be in the bottom half of the quality curve, and Airstream clearly is.

BTW: The fix to AC noise is to use split systems with the compressor underneath the vehicle. RT is experimenting with this.