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06-18-2018, 08:36 PM
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#1
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Prof. of Pending Projects
2018 Tommy Bahama Interstate
Orlando
, Florida
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,658
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Not charging from shore power
Please help me figure this out.
AI is plugged to 15amp/120volts outlet at home (driveway)
Noticed this morning that chassis battery was at 12.10 volts can’t figure out why... unplug from outlet and run engine for several minutes - batteries back to full charge. Turn off engine, plug back to wall.
Leave for work and when I get back everything is fully charged
Sun goes down and after a few hours I come out to check on them...I see batteries starting to go downs in voltage. Starting to worry. I disconnect again and turn on the engine... charge them... turn off engine... turn off all breakers... turn off main switch...
Start turning everything back... can’t reset GFI breaker... searched on that... breaker must have 120 volts to reset... plug to wall, GFI reset without issues
Look at display it will not go to "Bulk" and stays in “Float”
Unplug from wall... turn on propane switch...fire up generator... watch display and it goes to “Bulk” - which is great.
So it is charging from engine, solar, and generator...
Turn off generator... connect back to shore... all is back to normal and now it is charging from house outlet!!! I mean, I am happy to see it working again... but what the heck happened!!!???
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06-18-2018, 08:44 PM
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#2
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Rivet Master
2007 Interstate
Sneedville
, Tennessee
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wachuko
Please help me figure this out.
AI is plugged to 15amp/120volts outlet at home (driveway)
Noticed this morning that chassis battery was at 12.10 volts cant figure out why... unplug from outlet and run engine for several minutes - batteries back to full charge. Turn off engine, plug back to wall.
Leave for work and when I get back everything is fully charged
Sun goes down and after a few hours I come out to check on them...I see batteries starting to go downs in voltage. Starting to worry. I disconnect again and turn on the engine... charge them... turn off engine... turn off all breakers... turn off main switch...
Start turning everything back... cant reset GFI breaker... searched on that... breaker must have 120 volts to reset... plug to wall, GFI reset without issues
Look at display it will not go to "Bulk" and stays in Float
Unplug from wall... turn on propane switch...fire up generator... watch display and it goes to Bulk - which is great.
So it is charging from engine, solar, and generator...
Turn off generator... connect back to shore... all is back to normal and now it is charging from house outlet!!! I mean, I am happy to see it working again... but what the heck happened!!!???
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Transfer switch hung up?
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06-18-2018, 08:47 PM
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#3
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Rivet Master
2018 Interstate Lounge Ext
LV
, Nevada
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 2,580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wachuko
Unplug from wall... turn on propane switch...fire up generator... watch display and it goes to Bulk - which is great.
So it is charging from engine, solar, and generator...
Turn off generator... connect back to shore... all is back to normal and now it is charging from house outlet!!! I mean, I am happy to see it working again... but what the heck happened!!!???
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WACHUKO - since you used the word "PARANOID" on your post earlier about my Magnum burning, now I am beginning to be paranoid about Magnum. Here is why. Keep in mind Magnum decides whether to Charge or Not to Charge - based on the setting of "Charger Standby" menu. And it also decides whether to go on Bulk or Float or any of the 4-stages. Nothing in that sequence of steps you enumerated will change any of those settings.
The Magnum, unless you have changed stuff, does not switch from FLOAT to BULK unless voltage has dropped below 12.1v
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06-18-2018, 08:54 PM
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#4
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Contributing Member
2018 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Austin (Hays County)
, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,164
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Not charging from wall was the first thing I noticed during the failure of my Magnum. I drove the coach home and plugged into my reliable 30a outlet on my workshop. The batteries were down to 12.5, but I didn't get the expected absorb. I also never heard the loud click of the BIM that should have happened after a short time. Not enough coming out of the Magnum for the BIM to decide it was charging.
I tried resetting the Magnum and the result was a lot of smoke.
A new Magnum has been shipped and I should get it in about 5 days. Expensive, but I couldn't sleep over the old Magnum again, even if I could repair it.
I brought the batteries up to 12.8 with my smart auto charger and turned off the battery disconnect. I stopped by later today and checked the battery voltage displayed on my solar controller. The batteries are holding well. The AGMs are only about 4 months old.
My new Magnum will be installed with standoffs, outside the confining box, and with a perforated cage around it so that it can get plenty of air. I have most of the work done; just waiting for the hardware. I lose a bit of storage space, but gain peace of mind.
Airstream breaks just about every installation rule. Later models are even worse than mine since my Magnum was under the couch with more space than the Magnums under the jump seats.
__________________
John W. Irwin
2018 Interstate GT, "Sabre-Dog V"
WBCCI #9632
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06-18-2018, 09:00 PM
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#5
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Prof. of Pending Projects
2018 Tommy Bahama Interstate
Orlando
, Florida
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,658
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I am thinking more what Tincampers mentioned... maybe a transfer switch hiccup...
But Alex AVI, yes, since your post, I am... heading out on the 28... would like to keep it that way... and for that everything needs to continue to work as expected...
Is the transfer switch in the Magnum the only transfer switch in the AI? I should check the schematics.
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06-18-2018, 09:03 PM
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#6
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Prof. of Pending Projects
2018 Tommy Bahama Interstate
Orlando
, Florida
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,658
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pahaska
Not charging from wall was the first thing I noticed during the failure of my Magnum....
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Oh great...
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06-18-2018, 09:06 PM
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#7
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Rivet Master
2018 Interstate Lounge Ext
LV
, Nevada
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 2,580
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WACHUKO - follow up to my 1st reply.
When charge mode has been enabled the first time and goes into "Charging" on the display, it is deciding which mode to use. If voltage is below 12.8v, it is supposed to go into "Bulk". If voltage is above 12.8 then it skips "Bulk" and goes into "Float". So why yours did not go into "Bulk" is baffling, again unless Magnum got confused. And apparently, it is still in "Float" and will stay there until it gets below 12.1v because that is what trips the logic flow to the next of the 4-stages.
You never mentioned that Magnum had completely reset to where it was going through the "Charging" phase as indicated on display. It should've happened just by virtue of time it takes to go from gen to shore & vice versa, but don't know why it did not.
EDIT:
Well there is your physical Transfer Relay (deals with shore & gen switching). Then you have the Magnum internal Auto Transfer Switch Circuitry which does the 120vac pass-through to it's load even when completely turned off.
Try not to confuse both because one is a physical relay and one is internal to Magnum, nothing serviceable or at least nothing I would touch under warranty
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06-18-2018, 09:14 PM
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#8
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Rivet Master
2018 Interstate Lounge Ext
LV
, Nevada
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 2,580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pahaska
Airstream breaks just about every installation rule. Later models are even worse than mine since my Magnum was under the couch with more space than the Magnums under the jump seats.
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JOHN - sorry to hear about your woes too. Just great to have resources here, if nothing but to have sounding board. Best of luck. You would be in much better shape than me after you get new replacement with more room to 'breathe' the Magnum, IMHO
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06-18-2018, 09:19 PM
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#9
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Prof. of Pending Projects
2018 Tommy Bahama Interstate
Orlando
, Florida
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,658
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I did see the charging message, but this was after using the generator... before that, when connected to shore, it was only displaying the "Float" message... and I did give it plenty of time... I had an USB fan one, big fan in the roof on, all lights, fridge and freezer... waited over 5 minutes between tests...
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06-18-2018, 09:20 PM
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#10
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Prof. of Pending Projects
2018 Tommy Bahama Interstate
Orlando
, Florida
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,658
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex AVI
...
EDIT:
Well there is your physical Transfer Relay (deals with shore & gen switching). Then you have the Magnum internal Auto Transfer Switch Circuitry which does the 120vac pass-through to it's load even when completely turned off.
Try not to confuse both because one is a physical relay and one is internal to Magnum, nothing serviceable or at least nothing I would touch under warranty
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Trying to find that in the diagrams... thank you!
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06-18-2018, 09:20 PM
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#11
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Contributing Member
2018 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Austin (Hays County)
, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,164
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I should have mentioned. I could charge from the engine; the BIM clicked as expected to connect the alternator to the batteries and clicked off when I stopped the engine.
I could not charge from the generator or from the outside service. The remote display just continued to show Float, even with the batteries down to 12.5. The CB feeding AC to the Magnum did not blow. After the smoke, I shut off power to the Magnum using the manual switch I installed in place of the ill-conceived SB-164 fix. I also turned off the CB feeding AC to the Magnum. I don't know what the remote display would have said then because I was not about to power up the Magnum again.
I have the coach powered up except the Magnum and I can use everything except the TV and the GFCI outlets.
__________________
John W. Irwin
2018 Interstate GT, "Sabre-Dog V"
WBCCI #9632
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06-18-2018, 09:29 PM
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#12
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Rivet Master
2018 Interstate Lounge Ext
LV
, Nevada
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 2,580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wachuko
I did see the charging message, but this was after using the generator... before that, when connected to shore, it was only displaying the "Float" message... and I did give it plenty of time... I had an USB fan one, big fan in the roof on, all lights, fridge and freezer... waited over 5 minutes between tests...
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Yeah, see that is the thing. Unless it completely reset and goes into "Charging" mode where it is " deciding" which charging routine to execute and using the 12.8v trip voltage to decide which routine to use, then it will retain whatever previous charge routine was that it was executing. In this case that was "Float" and will continue to use the trip voltage of 12.1v before switching to "Bulk"
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06-18-2018, 09:37 PM
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#13
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Prof. of Pending Projects
2018 Tommy Bahama Interstate
Orlando
, Florida
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,658
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120-Volt Power
When youre plugged into shoreline power or starting
your generator, 120-volt current is fed to an Automatic
Switch Over Box. Power from the box runs to the
120-volt circuit breakers on the Energy Management
System
Page 45 of the manual (5-13)... so either the Magnum or this Automatic Switch Over box that was causing the issue...
Either way, will continue to monitor. Thank you all for helping me understand.
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06-18-2018, 10:20 PM
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#14
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Rivet Master
2018 Interstate Lounge Ext
LV
, Nevada
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 2,580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wachuko
When youre plugged into shoreline power or starting your generator, 120-volt current is fed to an Automatic
Switch Over Box.
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Is that what they call it now? In the same manual where they have the schematics, they call this "Automatic Switch Over Box" the "30A Transfer Relay TRN1" and the "Energy Management System" is called the "Power Center MD1a" & in small print below is the acronym "EMS"
Really lousy technical writing skills in my book. They do like to confuse their customers, I am beginning to understand why.
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06-19-2018, 05:31 AM
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#15
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Rivet Master
2007 Interstate
League City
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tincampers
Transfer switch hung up?
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If this were happening in a T1N, I would have difficulty imagining what else it could be, with that roster of symptoms. However, I don't know the younger NCV3 electrical configurations at all, so on that, I cannot say.
About 10 months ago, I posted this comparison photo of old and new transfer switches, because we replaced ours during our lithium retrofit. It didn't need replacement in the sense that it had not failed, but we were starting with a fresh batch of components. See what I noted below regarding possible trace burn-out potential. I don't know if my interpretation is correct here, but this is what it looked like to my barely-trained (but willing to learn) eye.
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06-19-2018, 06:04 AM
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#16
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Rivet Master
2013 Interstate Coach
Waterloo
, Iowa
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,598
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Since it charged with the generator and not shore power I think it has to be the transfer switch that is 'before' the Magnum.
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06-19-2018, 06:30 AM
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#17
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Prof. of Pending Projects
2018 Tommy Bahama Interstate
Orlando
, Florida
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,658
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^ seems to have been the case. Glad it was nothing serious and I noticed it quickly enough to avoid battery damage.
Checked this morning and all fully charged and control showing back on "Float" with batteries showing in the display at 13 volts
I am going over the ACR documentation. Want to understand why the chassis battery got to 12.10 volts. I was under the impression that the ACR should have isolated it if it sensed voltage levels bellow 12.35 (and maybe it did but something else continued to drain the chassis battery... I still need to install the second switch to the Fusion...)
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06-19-2018, 10:32 AM
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#18
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Rivet Master
2024 Interstate 19
Fulton
, Maryland
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,867
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Titus
Since it charged with the generator and not shore power I think it has to be the transfer switch that is 'before' the Magnum.
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If 120VAC outlets in coach and things like microwave are powered when on generator and shore power then transfer switch is working fine. Once that is determined then you can suspect the Magnum Inverter/Charger as possible problem.
__________________
- - Mike
--------------------------
2024 Airstream Interstate 19e AWD
Previous: 2013 Airstream Interstate 3500 Ext Lounge
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06-19-2018, 11:13 AM
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#19
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Rivet Master
2018 Interstate Lounge Ext
LV
, Nevada
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 2,580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InterBlog
See what I noted below regarding possible trace burn-out potential. I don't know if my interpretation is correct here, but this is what it looked like to my barely-trained (but willing to learn) eye.
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INTERBLOG - yes it seems that those are back-stops for burn-out potential, but those traces are pretty hefty to start with, so kinda wondering why the neccessity for additional current path (unless they deemed the original size was not sufficient to handle the current).
WACHUKO - Crossing fingers. Seems all is ok
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06-19-2018, 11:28 AM
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#20
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Rivet Master
2007 22' International CCD
Corona
, California
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,180
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Sometimes the width of a circuit board trace looks big enough, but if the thickness of the copper has been specified too thin, or the manufacturer has 'fudged' the thickness thinner to save money, adding wire can be a stopgap measure. Have had it happen when there is just not enough space for a fat enough trace as well. Usually ends up in a shouting match between engineering, manufacturing, QA, and purchasing when the issue 'hits the fan' and starts toasting boards and traces. Or starts a nice big fire on the manufacturing test area floor, which happened once...was no fun putting that one out.
I'm not a lover of trying to push high voltage or current across a circuit board. I'm one of those dinosaurs that likes nice HEAVY stranded wires of the correct (or oversize) gauge crimped into ring terminals, with properly torqued fasteners holding it all together. May occupy more space, but properly built and installed, seems to live a lot longer...
__________________
Rich, KE4GNK/AE, Overkill Engineering Dept.
'The Silver HamShack' ('07 International 22FB CCD 75th Anniversary)
Multiple Yaesu Ham Radios inside and many antennae sprouting from roof, ProPride hitch, Prodigy P2 controller.
2012 shortbed CrewMax 4x4 Toyota Tacoma TV with more antennae on it.
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