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Old 06-19-2018, 11:58 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Alex AVI View Post
INTERBLOG - yes it seems that those are back-stops for burn-out potential, but those traces are pretty hefty to start with, so kinda wondering why the neccessity for additional current path (unless they deemed the original size was not sufficient to handle the current).
One thing is perfectly clear:

NOBODY is going to pay either a person or a robot to put those things on there unless they are absolutely needed.

And the way they find out that they are absolutely needed is by experiencing failures, often dramatic ones.
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Old 06-19-2018, 08:17 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by InterBlog View Post
One thing is perfectly clear:

NOBODY is going to pay either a person or a robot to put those things on there unless they are absolutely needed.

And the way they find out that they are absolutely needed is by experiencing failures, often dramatic ones.
YEP - BTW - those traces are double-sided
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Old 06-19-2018, 08:30 PM   #23
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Well... get home from work and the same situation... it charges from solar, from engine, only this time it will not switch to charging when I fire up the generator, nor when connected to shoreline...

I am inside the AI... connected to 15 amp line... A/C on (glad I read that post that the A/C would run out of 15 amp outlet!!) and going over all breakers and fuses.. all seem in order but it will not go into charging “Bulk” mode...

Something strange... digital display has house at 12.7 chassis at 12.5. The magnum display has battery at 12.8...

Going to turn off A/C and disconnect shoreline and start the engine. My concern is the freezer full of stuff... might need to move inside until I figure this out...
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Old 06-19-2018, 09:12 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by wachuko View Post
Well... get home from work and the same situation... it charges from solar, from engine, only this time it will not switch to charging when I fire up the generator, nor when connected to shoreline...



I am inside the AI... connected to 15 amp line... A/C on (glad I read that post that the A/C would run out of 15 amp outlet!!) and going over all breakers and fuses.. all seem in order but it will not go into charging “Bulk” mode...



Something strange... digital display has house at 12.7 chassis at 12.5. The magnum display has battery at 12.8...



Going to turn off A/C and disconnect shoreline and start the engine. My concern is the freezer full of stuff... might need to move inside until I figure this out...


Something definitely wrong. Float at 12.8V is just wrong. Should be 13.5V. The difference of 12.7 vs 12.8 is not significant as the voltmeter on the FireFly panel is not super accurate. I alway see a tenth or two difference on mine.

If you haven't done so yet - check that all connections between inverter and batteries are tight. That can cause some strange behavior. It happened to me right after I bought mine in 2012.

Also have you tried to use the inverter function of the Magnum to see if it works?
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Old 06-19-2018, 09:58 PM   #25
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I checked all the connections at the inverter and ACR, and anything that was inside the AI. I replaced the 2amp fuses on the ACR just for the heck of it... they were all in perfect condition.

I can't understand... I ran the A/C... I can see 15amps (looking at EMS on the outlet at home) being pulled... Anything with direct charge, like engine and solar, works fine...

If I unplug from shoreline, turn inverter on... outlets work fine... tested with phone charger and a drill..

If I turn inverter off, outlet is off...

Plug to shoreline, all outlets work fine as well...

I have not gone under the AI to check connection at batteries posts... will do that tomorrow. And will call Airstream support... not sure what else to test... the only function of the Magnum that does not seem to be working is the charging.
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Old 06-19-2018, 11:15 PM   #26
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On my older AI (T1N) it won’t charge the chassis (starting) battery when plugged in.
I added another AC outlet right behind the driver’s seat (there was a spare AC breaker) and plugged in a Battery Tender (brand) charger/float charger. I leave it hooked up all the time so any time the AI is plugged into shore power the battery is topped up and kept full up (without overcharging).

I don’t know if the newer ones charge the starting batt, I didn’t think they did. But I most certainly could be wrong.

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Old 06-20-2018, 01:22 AM   #27
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This is from the Magnum manual (http://www.magnum-dimensions.com/sit...M-E-Series.pdf):

"Full Charge (Battery Saver™ mode): The fourth stage occurs
after four hours of float charging. The Full Charge stage maintains
the batteries without overcharging, preventing excessive loss of
water in flooded batteries or drying out of GEL/AGM batteries. In
this stage, the charger is turned off and begins monitoring the
battery voltage. If the battery voltage drops low (≤12.7 VDC/12
volt models or ≤25.4 VDC/24 volt models), the charger will automatically
initiate another four hours in float charge."

I think you have the Battery Saver mode ON?

Also, with the battery temperature sensor installed (which it is), the cutoff voltages are lower at higher temperatures.

I assume that you have the Blue Sea ACR in AUTO mode as a default. This will keep the house and engine batteries connected when there is a charging source.
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Old 06-20-2018, 03:19 AM   #28
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Boom23,

I guess the message there is RTFM, right? You are correct in all accounts. Seems that I am just overreacting due to what happened to Alex AVI...

Battery Saver mode was indeed in ON

All fixed now.... again!...

Reading the manual again. Thank you!
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Old 06-20-2018, 06:31 AM   #29
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Thumbs up

Confirmed... it was the nut behind the steering wheel... thanks again Boom23

Balance in the universe has been restored. Note to self...read the manual and validate settings before panicking...sigh
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Old 06-20-2018, 09:27 AM   #30
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Glad to help. Thank you for all the info you are posting!
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Old 06-20-2018, 10:42 AM   #31
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And do please note, that since we have moved to a 'kinder, gentler world', reading the manuals will NOT lead to the automatic revocation of your "man card".

It's perfectly OK to read the manual, also because the world is getting much more complex by the day...
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Old 06-20-2018, 11:33 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom23 View Post
This is from the Magnum manual (http://www.magnum-dimensions.com/sit...M-E-Series.pdf):

"Full Charge (Battery Saver™ mode): The fourth stage occurs
after four hours of float charging. The Full Charge stage maintains
the batteries without overcharging, preventing excessive loss of
water in flooded batteries or drying out of GEL/AGM batteries. In
this stage, the charger is turned off and begins monitoring the
battery voltage. If the battery voltage drops low (≤12.7 VDC/12
volt models or ≤25.4 VDC/24 volt models), the charger will automatically
initiate another four hours in float charge."

I think you have the Battery Saver mode ON?

Also, with the battery temperature sensor installed (which it is), the cutoff voltages are lower at higher temperatures.

I assume that you have the Blue Sea ACR in AUTO mode as a default. This will keep the house and engine batteries connected when there is a charging source.
Great work Boom23!! I totally forgot about the Battery Saver mode even though I've seen when keeping the van plugged into shore power. This also explains why it was charging normally on generator as it takes energy from batteries to start the generator, thus lowering the voltage enough to initiate a charge cycle.
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Old 06-20-2018, 12:30 PM   #33
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I will have to read the manual to better understand what the power saver does, and check my settings to see if it is on or off. But what I don't understand is why things worked OK for the first many months that Wachuko had it, then suddenly caused problems.
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Old 06-20-2018, 12:47 PM   #34
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I will have to read the manual to better understand what the power saver does, and check my settings to see if it is on or off. But what I don't understand is why things worked OK for the first many months that Wachuko had it, then suddenly caused problems.
Based on what I've read, Wachuko's condition happened because of these two reasons:

1. Charger was in Battery Saver mode.
2. The ACR was in Battery Disconnect mode.

I also have Battery Saver mode ON, but I am not connected to shore power and the Solar keep the batteries over 13V. Also, I have the ACR in Auto mode. This way, all batteries (house and engine) get charged when there is a charging source available. In all my years of boating, the ACR has never been a problem.
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Old 06-20-2018, 01:00 PM   #35
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Wink

mea culpa mea culpa mea máxima culpa

I was changing so many things as I went over the system, to make sure I did not experienced what Alex recently went through, that I must have achieve the perfect-storm combination... it takes years of experience and dedication... but I did it... I should feel proud, but I don't

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Old 06-20-2018, 01:03 PM   #36
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I have read the manual for the Magnum but still do not understand. I do not see how/where you change the Battery Saver mode from ON to OFF. I have upgraded from the MR ME remote to the RE RC remote. Both remotes have a Power Saver feature that limits the time that the LCD backlight is on, but I see nothing about Battery Saver. It appears that Battery Saver ON is better for the coach batteries, but can cause problems with the chassis battery. OFF is just the opposite - good for the chassis batteries but bad for the coach batteries - correct? Or does this problem only occur in certain modes of the ACR, and not with the BIM?
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Old 06-20-2018, 01:04 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by wachuko View Post
mea culpa mea culpa mea máxima culpa

I was changing so many things as I went over the system, to make sure I did not experienced what Alex recently went through, that I must have achieve the perfect-storm combination... it takes years of experience and dedication... but I did it... I should feel proud, but I don't

It happens to me all the time. Nothing to feel bad about. Just learn from the experience. We all did, so thank you!

I prefer easy problems...
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Old 06-20-2018, 01:10 PM   #38
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I have read the manual for the Magnum but still do not understand. I do not see how/where you change the Battery Saver mode from ON to OFF. I have upgraded from the MR ME remote to the RE RC remote. Both remotes have a Power Saver feature that limits the time that the LCD backlight is on, but I see nothing about Battery Saver. It appears that Battery Saver ON is better for the coach batteries, but can cause problems with the chassis battery. OFF is just the opposite - good for the chassis batteries but bad for the coach batteries - correct? Or does this problem only occur in certain modes of the ACR, and not with the BIM?
I also have the ME RC control. From the RC manual:

"SETUP: 09 Final Charge – The Final Charge stage setting is the stage
to which the charger will transition after the absorption stage has
finished—as set in the 03 Absorb Time menu.

Default setting: Final = Multi
Range: Multi, Float, Silent (Rebulk)

Note: If “CC/CV Controlled” displays on this menu’s screen, you will not be
able to adjust the settings as “CC/CV” has been selected as the battery type
from the 04 Battery Type menu.

Set Final Charge = Multi – The Multi setting (or “Multi-Stage”),
transitions from the Absorption stage to Float. Once in Float stage for 4
hours with no DC load on the batteries, the charger enters the Full Charge
stage (i.e., Battery Saver mode). In Full Charge mode, the charger
automatically stops charging but is still on and actively monitoring the
battery voltage. The charger remains in the Full Charge stage until the
battery voltage drops below 12.7 VDC for 12-volt batteries, 25.4 VDC
for 24-volt batteries, and 50.8 VDC for 48-volt batteries—at which time
it returns to the Float stage. These battery voltages are the fully charged
voltages of a battery at rest. The charger continues to cycle between
Float and Full Charge as long as incoming AC is available.

Info: When Multi is selected and the charger goes to Full Charge
mode, if another charge source (such as PV or wind) is charging the
batteries above the fully charged voltage, the charger will remain
in the Full Charge stage.

Why should I use Multi-Stage? Multi is the most commonly used charge
mode. It is suitable for most applications and will assure a full charge to
the batteries, without overcharging. If there is another alternate charge
source charging the batteries, such as PV, wind or hydro, then Multi mode
will use the inverter/charger to complete a full charge. The inverter/charger
will transition to Full Charge mode and the alternate charge source will then
maintain the battery voltage. If the alternate source is unable to maintain the voltage, the charger will enter Float mode for another four hour period. The Full Charge feature in the Multi mode also helps reduce water consumption in flooded batteries when they are left in the charge mode for extended periods, such as in a backup power application.

Set Final Charge Stage = Float – The Float stage is a maintenance
charge mode that maintains a constant voltage—while delivering up
to the maximum rated current of the charger in order to power any
DC loads connected to the batteries. Most 3-stage chargers fi nish the
charge mode in Float and remain in Float as long as an AC source is
available on the input of the charger. The fl oat voltage is determined
by the battery type selected in the 04 Battery Type menu. Unlike Multi
mode, in Float mode there is no Full Charge feature.

Why should I use the Float Charge Stage? Float mode is typically used
when the charger is the only charge source connected to the batteries.
This mode will maintain the batteries at the fl oat voltage. If using fl ooded
batteries and the charger is in fl oat for an extended period, the water level
should be checked every two to three weeks for proper levels.

Set Final Charge Stage = Silent – Silent mode stops charging once it
transitions from Absorb mode to ‘Silent’. Once the charger enters Silent
mode the battery voltage is continuously monitored. If the batteries fall
to the Rebulk value, the charger restarts the Bulk Charge mode and
then transitions to Absorb Charge mode. After the Absorb Charge mode, the charger again transitions to Silent mode. This silent to rebulk
to absorb and back to silent cycle will continue as long as it is required.

ReBulk – When Silent is selected, you must also set the DC voltage
set-point where the charger restarts the Bulk Charge mode. This setting
should be at the lowest DC volts you want the batteries to fall before
starting a new bulk charge. Typically, the lowest DC volts the batteries
are allowed to fall is 12.0 to 12.2 VDC (12-volt systems), 24.0 to
24.4 VDC (24-volt systems), and 48.0 to 48.8 VDC (48-volt systems)
respectively.

Default setting: Rebulk = 12.0V (for 12v inverter)
Ranges: 12.0-16.0 VDC (12v), 24.0-32.0 VDC (24v), 48.0-64.0 VDC (48v)
Why should I use the Silent Stage? Silent mode is typically used when
an alternate charge source is available and able to fully charge or fi nish the
charge cycle after the Absorb stage. A major difference between Multi mode
and Silent mode is that the Silent mode returns to Bulk mode instead of Float
mode. In Silent mode you can also adjust the Rebulk set-point in order to
allow the alternate charge source to provide more of the battery charging."
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Old 06-20-2018, 01:50 PM   #39
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Thanks. I was looking for a setting called Battery Saver, with options of ON and OFF. I didn't read close enough to see that Battery Saver ON was actually Final Charge = MULTI. If I understand correctly, the low chassis battery voltage would not have occurred, even in MULTI, with the BIM or with the ACR in the CONNECTED mode.
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Old 06-20-2018, 03:24 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Titus View Post
If I understand correctly, the low chassis battery voltage would not have occurred, even in MULTI, with the BIM or with the ACR in the CONNECTED mode.
That is correct. With the ACR in Auto or Connected mode all batteries get charged when a charger is charging.
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