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Old 08-16-2015, 12:27 PM   #57
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As a farmer,, I feel I need to reply..

First,, about 10 years ago we were filling up our combine with its daily need of 150 gallons of diesel fuel.. One of my girls was in charge of filling while I was greasing up. I kept smelling gas.. The tank was almost full when I came to figure out we were pumping gas and not diesel.. I called our fuel man and he said they just figured out that a transport of fuel,, 7000 gallons was off loaded in the night into the wrong tank. Since harvest is more important than the wrong fuel I just added 4 gallons of transmission oil and ran out the day anyway with no damage.. Did lack some peak power but after a re fill the next day with good old #2 diesel we were back in the game again at 100%..

As for the bio fuel issue I feel this needs to be addressed.. First,, 98% of all field corn is used just for livestock feed.. Making ethanol from a bushel of corn yields almost 3 gallons of useable fuel.. The by product or mash,, is dried and 40% of the corns starting weight is still a very improved and high grade live stock feed. So factor it out we are using 60% of a bushel of corn and gaining 3 gallons of non imported fuel,,, and still end up with 40% of the feed volume.

Very little oil is in corn.. Less than 5% total weight over all.. So many other crops like sunflowers yield up to 43% oil content. Again, the meal left over after the crush is a very high protein ,, high grade livestock feed. Soybeans carrie around 10% oil content. Yes alot of beans are used for oil and over all more than sunflowers as the oil is too high a % to feed to livestock.

Most bio diesel is made using a chemical process that reacts with the heavy waxes to be removed and make it more like dino diesel.. Problem is a lot of mistakes are made and some solvents and such carry over into the finial fuel product for fuel system and engine damage and gives the bio diesel a bad name. Since the wax is the gun powder in the fuel,, taking most of it out also lowers the performance of the fuel greatly over good old dino #2 diesel.

After years of research in what other countries are doing for cheaper farm fuel,, Germany leads the pack and mostly use this process I adapted for our farms use.. The finial goal is to adjust the raw veggie oils thickness to match that of #2 dino fuel so the spray pattern of the injector gets a good flame front and clean burn.

Here is my web site for folks who wish to learn a little more about veggie oil for fuels. Bio-Diesel: Farm Grown Profit

This has been tested by a PhD from Fort Collins U,, and proven safe,, and with a higher performance than dino #2 diesel.

CSU researchers bridging gaps in biofuel production » Rocky Mountain Collegian

Sodbust,,,
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Old 08-16-2015, 12:43 PM   #58
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Please don't apply logic and the laws of physics. That will confuse people and cause they to question the government double speak.
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Old 08-16-2015, 12:49 PM   #59
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Please don't apply logic and the laws of physics. That will confuse people and cause they to question the government double speak.
I don't question the government doublespeak; I dismiss it out of hand.

It's all George Orwell's fault anyway; he's the one who coined the term "doublespeak" in the classic novel "1984." Which is unfortunate, because if he had used double entendre instead of doublespeak the novel would have been much more fun to read.
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Old 08-16-2015, 07:04 PM   #60
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My primary complaint is that if ethanol is such a great deal, then why does it have to be subsidized?

Secondary complaint is that it has less energy so it hurts mpg and it's bad for marine engines and small engines like trimmers, mowers, etc.
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Old 08-16-2015, 07:10 PM   #61
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My primary complaint is that if ethanol is such a great deal, then why does it have to be subsidized?

Secondary complaint is that it has less energy so it hurts mpg and it's bad for marine engines and small engines like trimmers, mowers, etc.
To paraphrase Alfred, Lord Tennyson: "Ours not to reason why, ours but to pay taxes and die…"
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Old 08-16-2015, 07:44 PM   #62
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Not true. That would violate the second law of thermodynamics.

It does take less energy to make ethanol from sugar than to make it from corn, but still more than the usable energy you get from burning the ethanol.

Thought exercise— if it took less energy to make sugar-based ethanol than the energy you get back from ethanol, then all sugar-based ethanol-manufacturing plants would RUN on ethanol because they'd be able to produce more ethanol than they would use themselves.
I didn't state it correctly. What I meant was that it takes about the same amount of energy to create the ethanol as you recover. At least that seems to be the consensus out there. Never did the math personally.
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To paraphrase Alfred, Lord Tennyson: "Ours not to reason why, ours but to pay taxes and die…"
Yep.
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Old 08-16-2015, 07:59 PM   #63
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It is silly to make ethanol from corn, but it does reduce emissions significantly, and replaces the MBTE formerly used.

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Old 08-16-2015, 08:09 PM   #64
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It is silly to make ethanol from corn, but it does reduce emissions significantly, and replaces the MBTE formerly used.
I have to agree. MTBE fell out of favor because it was rumored to be a carcinogen, but to date that has not been proven. Even the American Cancer Society admits that.
See: MTBE. Here is an excerpt for people who don't follow links:
Quote:
In the late 1990s, many community drinking water supplies in areas that used a lot of MTBE were found to have detectable levels of MTBE. Since then, MTBE use in gasoline has been phased out because of concerns about groundwater contamination. Although it is not clear what effects MTBE in drinking water might have on health, many states have passed laws limiting or banning the use of MTBE in gasoline.
And another:
Quote:
MTBE does not build up in the body. It is broken down and exhaled or excreted in urine, usually within a couple of days.
So this appears to be yet another case of the cure being worse than the disease.
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Old 08-16-2015, 08:29 PM   #65
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It is silly to make ethanol from corn, but it does reduce emissions significantly, and replaces the MBTE formerly used.

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Which emissions does it reduce? Harmless stuff like water vapor and CO2 don't count. I did read that it reduces CO but couldn't find how much from the level of a current emission controlled vehicle.
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Old 08-16-2015, 08:49 PM   #66
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Which emissions does it reduce? Harmless stuff like water vapor and CO2 don't count. I did read that it reduces CO but couldn't find how much from the level of a current emission controlled vehicle.
Ethanol actually does a worse job of reducing harmful emissions than MTBE. Ethanol's one and only redeeming benefit is that unlike MTBE, if it leaches into groundwater from rusty storage tanks, it doesn't taste bad. It could turn an entire community into alcoholics, but New Orleans is living proof that's not a bad thing…

So really one could make the argument that we all have to use ethanol gasoline because the Government's answer to rusty leaking gasoline storage tanks is to get rid of the fuel additive that makes water taste bad, rather than the sensible approach of replacing the rusty tanks with new storage tanks made of modern materials that don't rust.
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Old 08-16-2015, 09:04 PM   #67
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In the KCMO area years ago., the EPA (or some other gov't agency) mandated replacement of underground storage tanks if there was any sign of leakage. The new ones appeared to be non-metallic.
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Old 09-03-2015, 12:04 AM   #68
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I have nothing to add to the rather fascinating debate about biodiesel, but I do want to pass along an alternative source for diesel fuel that benefits from low prices and (as a result) very high turnover: Costco Warehouse. Not all their locations sell fuel, and not all the locations that sell fuel sell diesel, but if you can find a convenient one that does sell diesel, it is a great source.
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Old 09-11-2015, 08:56 AM   #69
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Just a comment for those that may travel to or through Minnesota during the summer months (April - September). I believe you will find only B10 available.
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