Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-13-2016, 02:05 PM   #57
3 Rivet Member

 
2016 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Houston , Texas
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post
Turned on the engine and to my pleasure, noticed it was pumping over 100 amps into the batteries running at idle!

The Sprinter 220 Amp alternator has been my default charging choice over the gen set. With 300 Watts of Solar and the Frig running I've rarely needed to resort to running the engine. I'll be on a 2 week trip week after next with both frig and freezer at work so it will be a good test.
__________________

__________________
Mcrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2016, 10:31 PM   #58
4 Rivet Member
 
2006 22' Interstate
League City , Texas
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 281
Amirim, thanks for the alternator charger link. More food for thought.

Thinking out loud. As you noted, I really shouldn't need a fancy charger if all I'm doing is feeding a straight 14.6 volts into the SBMS. I don't mind adding a larger alternator, or even a second alternator if I can use the power. But more than anything, I want to make sure I'm not pulling more amps out of the alternator than it is rated for or than I have wires to transport it. The SBMS will turn it on and off for me so the controlling logic is not necessary in the battery charger. The Lithium batteries just need a current limited 14.6 volts.

On to the new toys from the UPS driver:

The inverter came very poorly packaged:


So I figured I needed to bench test it incase it was damaged:


Ok, my cheap chinese power supply couldn't handle the start up surge without the voltage sagging so I had to go to plan B:

Everything checked out so its back in the box for a couple months until this project is a bit more mature. The inverter is 19" long but only about 9 inches wide. I'm not sure how much clearance I really need for air flow. The manual stated 5 inches but that seems like overkill. More importantly, will I find a place to put it where it won't be ingesting its own exhaust?

This is cool. There is no need to purchase a separate remote power switch because the inverter comes with a kit to relocate the power panel from the front of the unit anywhere within 5 meters:


Ok. Later this week I'll show off some of the other toys I promised last weekend.
__________________

__________________
LB_3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2016, 10:10 AM   #59
3 Rivet Member
 
2016 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Bellevue , Washington
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 246
Good news. After hours of searching yesterday, found the solution to current limiting the alternator. It is from UK company, Sterling Power. They make two different series. This is the first one I found: http://sterling-power.com/collection...ttery-chargers

What's neat is that they not only current limit (to the capacity of the device you buy), but also boost the voltage. They load up the alternator which causes its voltage to droop. But by selecting LiPo profile, it will then boost the voltage up to 14.x volts. Pricing is not too bad either at $350 for the one I am looking at (AB12130): http://www.defender.com/category.jsp...948&id=2289953



Note that some of the others don't have LiPo profiles.

Installation should be dead easy by replacing the current battery isolator with it. Not changes for special wiring required for the alternator!

There is an odd comment in their manual though that I am asking them about. Namely they say the unit must be matched to the Alternator capacity which in our case is 220 amps. I don't need that much current and rather save the space for the smaller one above.

Strangely, they make almost identical set of devices they call "Battery to Battery" charger. They work almost the same as above but have a different profile for LiPo charging from what I recall at lower voltage which I don't like. And even more strange, they charge more for them. Here they are: http://sterling-power.com/collection...ttery-chargers



These other ones have ignition enable pin that makes them easier to control from SBMS.

Speaking of SBMS, I am right now on the path of using a traditional unit. It is the same one that is going into my Lithium electric quad. It is the Orion Jr. The difference is that it doesn't attempt to control the charge so you can pump as much as you want into the batteries. It is like SBMS and external load except that it also does that for external charger. It is more expensive and doesn't do solar.
__________________
amirm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2016, 02:43 PM   #60
4 Rivet Member
 
2006 22' Interstate
League City , Texas
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 281
It looks like there is a remote interface for that charger.

http://sterling-power.com/collection...emote-controls

That may mean it's possible to use one of the SBMS output pins to turn the charger on and off so the 100A charging limit of the SBMS would not be a constraint.

Another random thought: Could an aftermarket remote start device be triggered by the low voltage output pin on the SBMS? I don't think I would be interested in this capability but for individuals interested in keeping the air conditioner running for their pets, it might be nice to start the vehicle when the battery can no longer run the A/C.
__________________
LB_3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2016, 09:24 PM   #61
3 Rivet Member
 
2016 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Bellevue , Washington
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by LB_3 View Post
That may mean it's possible to use one of the SBMS output pins to turn the charger on and off so the 100A charging limit of the SBMS would not be a constraint.
Well, that was my thought and assumption until I checked with Dacian. SBMS has to be in control of all charge input. That is what the two PV inputs are. Using an external charger means it has no means of determining what power is going into the batteries or state of charging.

This is why I am looking elsewhere as what you mention is standard feature of BMS systems.

SBMS is really designed around his application of solar as the main source of energy. In our case we have three different ways of getting charge into the batteries and it just isn't designed for this purpose.
__________________
amirm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2016, 11:36 PM   #62
4 Rivet Member
 
2006 22' Interstate
League City , Texas
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 281
I hope that doesn't end up being the SBMS's downfall for me. I've grown quite attached to that little yellow box. It would only take a software update to allow negative shunt voltages to be counted as charging current but Dacian isn't exactly trying to expand his market base and his users haven't yet shown the profeciency to tackle a task like that. Of course I'm not sure there is any device on the market that does everything. Maybe I need to study up an the Victron Energy stuff AM solar was selling. It did have a nice big control panel.

So to track my current list of software updates I would like to see:

1.) Ability to support external chargers.
2.) Another monitor view with giant state of charge numbers to make the device easier to read from a distance.
3.) A blinking IO pin to use with an external watchdog timer to turn off the SBMS in case of a software or firmware lockup.
__________________
LB_3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2016, 10:45 AM   #63
3 Rivet Member
 
2016 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Bellevue , Washington
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 246
Thanks for the write-up on the Xantrex LB_3. I went ahead and ordered mine. I was hoping to find something a bit smaller but after spending days looking, could not find one that a) didn't have a charger b) was any smaller and c) had a control input. With peak currents well over 200 amps, it was hard to find a way to shut them down without modification.

I am a bit hesitant of Xantrex quality these days. They used to be a top quality brand but got purchased and I see a lot of complaints about their service and support. Like you, I will do some bench testing and really "soak it" to make sure it is reliable before spending a ton of energy mounting it.
__________________
amirm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2016, 10:48 AM   #64
3 Rivet Member
 
2016 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Bellevue , Washington
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by LB_3 View Post
So to track my current list of software updates I would like to see:

1.) Ability to support external chargers.
2.) Another monitor view with giant state of charge numbers to make the device easier to read from a distance.
3.) A blinking IO pin to use with an external watchdog timer to turn off the SBMS in case of a software or firmware lockup.
Good list. To that, I would add independent power input so that if you fuse the main battery connection, it doesn't blow up the unit. I don't know why he has combined the two functions when they can be isolated so easily.

It would also need to have remote control/monitoring. Wifi is cool but without ability to make changes, it is not very useful. Again, this works in his situation of powering an off-grid cabin where the device would be visible. In ours, something with thick welding batteries is not one that you could put at eye level and such. I want to keep may cables short and that doesn't allow that.
__________________
amirm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2016, 12:00 PM   #65
4 Rivet Member
 
2006 22' Interstate
League City , Texas
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 281
I'm pretty sure I want 12 100AH GBS battery cells but I'm a bit frustrated at the retail markup. I understand there is a similar markup on items like the inverters and other components however I don't always get to know what the price is to the retailers like with the GBS batteries.

I figure I could save $400 or more by importing them myself but then I have to learn how to get them through customs. That knowledge could be useful in other endeavors even if it isn't a very good use of my time. Like any good government bureaucracythey have A 200+ page guide for what probably accounts for filling out 3 forms and paying a $25 fee.

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/fi...0the%20U.S.pdf
__________________
LB_3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2016, 12:05 PM   #66
4 Rivet Member
 
2006 22' Interstate
League City , Texas
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 281
I wouldn't say I did any significant testing on the inverter. I just plugged in a soldering iron to do functional check to make sure I didn't need to immediately return the device. Before I install any system I plan to perform a complete system test with at lease one complete discharge cycle.
__________________
LB_3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2016, 08:50 PM   #67
3 Rivet Member
 
2016 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Bellevue , Washington
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by LB_3 View Post
I wouldn't say I did any significant testing on the inverter. I just plugged in a soldering iron to do functional check to make sure I didn't need to immediately return the device. Before I install any system I plan to perform a complete system test with at lease one complete discharge cycle.
No worries. If something goes wrong with mine, I will just send it to you to handle the warranty.
__________________
amirm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2016, 08:53 PM   #68
3 Rivet Member
 
2016 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Bellevue , Washington
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by LB_3 View Post
I'm pretty sure I want 12 100AH GBS battery cells but I'm a bit frustrated at the retail markup.
What is the pricing you are seeing?

I am getting my 12 cells from a company I have done business with. They have some slightly used cells which I am buying at a good discount. Send me a PM if you are interested in the same deal and I can provide the contact detail.
__________________
amirm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2016, 10:36 PM   #69
4 Rivet Member
 
2006 22' Interstate
League City , Texas
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 281
Best I can find domestically is ~$165 per cell shipped. Importing directly will take 2 months or more and can be done for about $130 per cell including shipping but comes with a customs headache.
__________________
LB_3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2016, 10:53 PM   #70
4 Rivet Member
 
2006 22' Interstate
League City , Texas
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post
Thanks for the write-up on the Xantrex LB_3. I went ahead and ordered mine. I was hoping to find something a bit smaller but after spending days looking, could not find one that a) didn't have a charger b) was any smaller and c) had a control input. With peak currents well over 200 amps, it was hard to find a way to shut them down without modification.
Are you now looking for a seperate 120v charger or are you going to be happy with just charging from the alternator?

The Victron Energy system looks capable but it's a mostly closed system designed to only play nice with other Victron components. It may be adaptable but it requires a series of components instead of a single box to monitor the battery, balance cells, and control charging and discharging. Need to do more research but I'm swamped at work this week.
__________________

__________________
LB_3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Electrical, Solar, Lithium Batteries on 28' International wbrown Electrical - Systems, Generators, Batteries & Solar 25 09-13-2014 07:44 PM
Lithium ion battery bearrand Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 9 04-04-2014 07:02 PM
Lithium Battery - 2012 doublebubble Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 23 08-05-2012 10:43 AM
Lithium ion battery sk8r29 Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 18 03-30-2011 02:33 AM
Spray Lithium Grease (Wal-Mart) Old_Town Hitches, Couplers & Balls 3 11-16-2007 01:48 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by



Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.