Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-26-2016, 10:25 AM   #141
3 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Austin , Texas
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 213
Lew,

I assume you have seen this Technomadia article which has a great video on how the energy flows when starting and stopping the A/C. The part of the video when they explain what is happening by viewing the Victron CCGX control panel is when I went "I want this system". The secret to the CCGX is that it is a Linux computer.

The CCGX can be mirrored to an IPAD which can be viewed while on the roof playing with the solar panels or at home using the Victron portal.

http://www.technomadia.com/2016/06/r...ting-inverter/

Do you know if AM Solar has the Victron 300AH Lithium batteries? Two of those would make a nice 600 AH system.

At this house battery level, it makes sense to delete the Onan generator and use a second alternator dedicated to the house bank, There is an Leisure Travel Vans Unity owner who lives in Eugene, OR who just installed the Victron system (obtained from AM Solar) along with a Nations alternator. He owns three auto shops so he had some help with the alternator install.

Keep us all informed with your Lithium installations.

Barry
__________________

pattonsr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2016, 04:28 PM   #142
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
lewster's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples, FL , Hood River, OR
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,351
Quote:
Originally Posted by pattonsr View Post
Lew,

I assume you have seen this Technomadia article which has a great video on how the energy flows when starting and stopping the A/C. The part of the video when they explain what is happening by viewing the Victron CCGX control panel is when I went "I want this system". The secret to the CCGX is that it is a Linux computer.

The CCGX can be mirrored to an IPAD which can be viewed while on the roof playing with the solar panels or at home using the Victron portal.

http://www.technomadia.com/2016/06/r...ting-inverter/

Do you know if AM Solar has the Victron 300AH Lithium batteries? Two of those would make a nice 600 AH system.

At this house battery level, it makes sense to delete the Onan generator and use a second alternator dedicated to the house bank, There is an Leisure Travel Vans Unity owner who lives in Eugene, OR who just installed the Victron system (obtained from AM Solar) along with a Nations alternator. He owns three auto shops so he had some help with the alternator install.

Keep us all informed with your Lithium installations.

Barry
The CCGX is quite an awesome device but wait!.........the NEW ONE that is in the final design and prototype stages will not have a screen but will have integral blue tooth for connecting to your smart phone via the Victron Connect app. At a Victron dealer near you (maybe around summer?).

Victron's 300 amp/hour lithiums, along with their 200 amp/hour units are presently out of stock until March. I just got 2 of the 300s that I ordered a few weeks ago that are destined for a new 40' Newmar diesel pusher with 960 watts of solar on the roof and the full package of other Victron goodies. Should be a fun installation!!!!
__________________

__________________
Lew Farber...ABYC Certified Master Marine Electrician...RVIA Certified Master Tech ...AM Solar Authorized Installation Center...AIRSTREAM Solar & Electrical Specialist...Micro Air 'Easy Start' Sales and Installations
lewster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2016, 05:29 PM   #143
3 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Austin , Texas
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 213
Lew,

The CCGX as currently configured has to be close to all of the Victron equipment and batteries. So I never planned to have it visible and would rely on an ethernet connection to my router to have the display mirrored to an Iphone or Ipad. The new CCGX sounds like an improvement to how people use their system and should allow more flexibility in placing equipment in out of the way places.

Barry
pattonsr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2016, 07:16 PM   #144
Rivet Master
 
FlyFishinRVr's Avatar
 
2017 Interstate Lounge Ext
Northern , California
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,275
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster View Post
Before the alternator was engaged, the A/C was drawing around 155 amps from the lithiums.
That seems excessive. The specs for a typical 15k BTU RV A/C unit shows < 15A of draw when cooling. Was the 155 the compressor start up peak vs. sustained draw? Or was this a result of having to go through the inverter to pump up to 110v AC?

FWIW, it looks like a condenser from ProAir will pull less than 20A for 40,000 BTU's of cooling goodness, and a miserly 8A for 20,000 BTU's...... ;-)
FlyFishinRVr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2016, 07:42 PM   #145
Rivet Master
 
2006 22' Interstate
League City , Texas
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 659
The 155A is about right. It you take 15A*115V you get 1725 watts. Divide that by a .8 efficiency factor for the inverter, that gives you 2030 watts into the inverter, divide by the 13.6V for Lithiums, gives you 158A...
LB_3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2016, 08:17 PM   #146
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
lewster's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples, FL , Hood River, OR
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,351
Quote:
Originally Posted by LB_3 View Post
The 155A is about right. It you take 15A*115V you get 1725 watts. Divide that by a .8 efficiency factor for the inverter, that gives you 2030 watts into the inverter, divide by the 13.6V for Lithiums, gives you 158A...
Right! The 155 amps was a DC draw measured directly at the batteries thru them monitor's shunt. Good math work!!........but the Magnum MSH3012-M has a listed efficiency of 90%.....close enough though!!
__________________
Lew Farber...ABYC Certified Master Marine Electrician...RVIA Certified Master Tech ...AM Solar Authorized Installation Center...AIRSTREAM Solar & Electrical Specialist...Micro Air 'Easy Start' Sales and Installations
lewster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2016, 12:52 AM   #147
Rivet Master
 
FlyFishinRVr's Avatar
 
2017 Interstate Lounge Ext
Northern , California
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,275
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster View Post
Right! The 155 amps was a DC draw measured directly at the batteries thru them monitor's shunt. Good math work!!........but the Magnum MSH3012-M has a listed efficiency of 90%.....close enough though!!
So....it's a result of having to go through the inverter to generate the 110v, and really is 150+ AMPS continuous!!!! Yowza......

I think that adds fuel to the DC A/C fire........
FlyFishinRVr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2016, 06:50 AM   #148
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
lewster's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples, FL , Hood River, OR
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,351
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyFishinRVr View Post
So....it's a result of having to go through the inverter to generate the 110v, and really is 150+ AMPS continuous!!!! Yowza......

I think that adds fuel to the DC A/C fire........
RIGHT!!

But.......there is always a but.....no?

When a system like this is properly combined with either a supplementary alternator charge (like for this Interstate coach), additional solar charging, or the use of a single 2000 watt generator, you will see that large amp draw only on compressor start-up.

Many hybrid inverter/lithium systems that I have installed, especially in Airstream trailers, use the hybrid inverter for extended A/C use only for supplemental load assist when the compressor is required to start.

After the large transient load is removed and the A/C unit is running, the hybrid inverter backs off it's contribution to the load and allows the generator to assume 100% of it. It only repeats as the needed when the thermostat again calls for starting the compressor.

See???????
__________________
Lew Farber...ABYC Certified Master Marine Electrician...RVIA Certified Master Tech ...AM Solar Authorized Installation Center...AIRSTREAM Solar & Electrical Specialist...Micro Air 'Easy Start' Sales and Installations
lewster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2016, 09:01 AM   #149
Rivet Master
 
FlyFishinRVr's Avatar
 
2017 Interstate Lounge Ext
Northern , California
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,275
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster View Post
RIGHT!!



But.......there is always a but.....no?




See???????


Yes, that works and surely it works well.

I think there are two extremes, or limits. On one end is to make the system so large that the existing large loads are handled. At the other end is to reduce the loads so the stock system can handle them. I think somewhere in the middle is where most people end up.

My preference is to be closer to the "small loads" end so I can do things like remove the genny and only use the auxiliary alternator occasionally, but since it will be running off the engine, which isn't restricted by campground quiet hours, I could run a DC A/C unit any time it's needed. Since I have two dogs with me, this is important.

Anyway, hopefully this gives the OP some more, interesting ideas on other ways to model their system.
FlyFishinRVr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2016, 11:39 AM   #150
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
lewster's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples, FL , Hood River, OR
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,351
Ahhhhh! Another dog lover!!!👍

That was the primary reason for this client's decision for the 800 amp/hour lithium in their Interstate coach. 😁


Lew Farber
__________________
Lew Farber...ABYC Certified Master Marine Electrician...RVIA Certified Master Tech ...AM Solar Authorized Installation Center...AIRSTREAM Solar & Electrical Specialist...Micro Air 'Easy Start' Sales and Installations
lewster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2016, 12:42 PM   #151
Rivet Master
 
2016 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Bellevue , Washington
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 688
I must say it is a strange sensation to see such massive amount of current being drawn from the battery bank. The Sharp microwave which we now use routinely while on batteries through the inverter pulls a cool 145 amps continuously! You almost stand back waiting for something to explode!

Fortunately nothing does if you have done everything right. The Lithium batteries handle it like it is powering a flashlight. The 2/0 cabling stays cold. The weak point is all the junctions. I have measured 0.2 volt drop across them with accompanied heat. So as Lew often says, try to minimize these junction as much as you possibly can.

As I mentioned to LB earlier, this aspect of the system, i.e. how you wire and fuse everything, is actually quite a large part of the job.
amirm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2016, 12:44 PM   #152
Rivet Master
 
2016 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Bellevue , Washington
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 688
Related and for LB, the 2KW Xantrex inverter turns on the AC at 60 degree C outside temp. At anything higher though, from what I recall it peaks to 195 amps and shuts off with an error. So a soft start circuit is mandatory to run the A/C on it. From what I remember (vaguely) the actual running amps was as low as 95 amps.
amirm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2016, 06:14 AM   #153
Rivet Master
 
2006 22' Interstate
League City , Texas
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 659
Thanks for the reminders on the junctions and fusing. I'haven't forgotten them but it's nice to have a reminder that bad cable terminations can lead to bad outcomes. Looks like I'll need to purchase a larger hydraulic crimped since the one I have only goes up to 2 awg.

The old T1N sprinter's came with 90-120 amp alternators. I'm' torn between just swapping in a bigger alternator and adding an auxiliary. It probably depends on whether I go with the bigger or smaller sterling charger.
LB_3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2016, 06:20 AM   #154
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
lewster's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples, FL , Hood River, OR
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,351
Quote:
Originally Posted by LB_3 View Post
Thanks for the reminders on the junctions and fusing. I'haven't forgotten them but it's nice to have a reminder that bad cable terminations can lead to bad outcomes. Looks like I'll need to purchase a larger hydraulic crimped since the one I have only goes up to 2 awg.

The old T1N sprinter's came with 90-120 amp alternators. I'm' torn between just swapping in a bigger alternator and adding an auxiliary. It probably depends on whether I go with the bigger or smaller sterling charger.
Be careful of the cheap Chinese hydraulic crimpers flooding the market now. I have a couple and non provide a really good hex crimp (the preferred type by ABYC). I use 2 crimpers now: a bench mount model from Quick Crimp and a hand held unit from Ancor. Both have adjustable rotating dies on the jaw that allow for fast sizing for various lug ends.

These are NOT CHEAP tools. It might be better if you can find one for rent at a local electrical supply house or tool rental place, unless you really, really need to have one!

I'm in the latter group.....being a die hard 'tool pig!!! 'OINK!'
__________________

__________________
Lew Farber...ABYC Certified Master Marine Electrician...RVIA Certified Master Tech ...AM Solar Authorized Installation Center...AIRSTREAM Solar & Electrical Specialist...Micro Air 'Easy Start' Sales and Installations
lewster is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Electrical, Solar, Lithium Batteries on 28' International wbrown Electrical - Systems, Generators, Batteries & Solar 25 09-13-2014 06:44 PM
Lithium ion battery bearrand Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 9 04-04-2014 06:02 PM
Lithium Battery - 2012 doublebubble Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 23 08-05-2012 09:43 AM
Lithium ion battery sk8r29 Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 18 03-30-2011 01:33 AM
Spray Lithium Grease (Wal-Mart) Old_Town Hitches, Couplers & Balls 3 11-16-2007 12:48 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.