LP Fill Port and Generator Muffler Relocation

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by Titus

Not clear to me what code might be violated. Sounds like an excuse to not do it anytime soon....

I should have added that Airstream does follow RVIA and NFPA codes and they would likely want to be sure any changes fall within those requirements. No manufacturer is going to make changes to their design with proper engineering review.

[wachuko]

Coachmen did this for their Galleria Li3 (poorly executed, look at the finish of that lid, yikes)... and theirs stays up with magnets against the body panel. Advanced RV is similar but a larger lid (but not sure they have propane in their rig, I know I saw the same setup with magnets on the lids for a video where they were at a dump station).

I think that it is just Airstream taking the easy route initially... hopefully they will see this as something they can incorporate into future changes to the new AI coming out on the new Mercedes Sprinter...

[Boxster1971]

I stated to get serious about moving the LP Fill Panel yesterday after getting the parts needed. Even raised up three inches this is a terrible location for the LP Fill Panel. It is exposed to damage and anything thrown up by the rear tires.

I've looked closer at the whole LP distribution layout on my Interstate. It was mentioned earlier that raising the LP Fill Panel just then makes the generator the low point under rear of van. I can raise the generator several inches, but there is a copper LP distribution line on top of the generator that needs to be moved. Once again I'm slipping into a bigger project

Now I'm considering totally relocating the LP Fill Panel closer to the tank to eliminate the 10 feet of hose from tank to panel. I found this remote fill kit by Nash Fuel, who make LP conversion kits.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6FT-PROPANE...G/180371195154

Haven't yet worked out exactly where I'll put the new panel. It might fit inside the macerator hose-reel compartment. That would mean the hoses would only need to be about 18 inches long. May require moving the black tank flush fitting a bit.

Then need to determine where to put the quick-connect fitting as I use it often to grill outside with my Olympian LP grill.

Not traveling this summer so this will become my mega project and I'll get new LP lines in the process on my six year old Interstate. The fun begins.

[Boxster1971]

Checked dimensions closer today and my plan to use the macerator compartment will not work. Not enough room. Looks like the only way to totally relocate the LP Fill Panel from behind the rear wheels would be to use the "cut a new hole" approach mentioned by John in this post a few days ago.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f240...ml#post2121106

For now I'm back to Plan A and just raise the existing fill panel. Since I also plan to add a generator resonator and some sound deadening Ill see if I can raise the generator a few inches without rerouting the LP hard lines lines.

Attached photos show how Midwest Automotive Design mounts their LP Fill Panel. I took the detailed shot myself at an RV show. This is what Airstream should do to improve their design.

[Titus]

I had not looked at raising the generator, assuming that it was impossible to do so. Why on earth would they have it so low if there is room to mount it higher? Of course, I could ask that 'why on earth' question about many things Airstream did!

[jpkski]

Your modification is impressive and eliminates one serious design flaw. But...The fill port is one of a few significant design flaws I have experienced on my 2009 Interstate. I deleted all the pictures I had to submit to the insurance company. But I think I can get my point across

While driving through Nebraska near a small town called Rushville our passenger side rear inside dually blew. The results and following events were not a pleasant experience. The tire took out the mudguard, the propane hoses and fill port assembly. The hoses were wrapped around the axle. And of course the propane was leaking. There isn’t a main shut off at the tank, only the emergency 12 volt shut off to the inside appliances. Five or six hours later when the propane tank finally emptied no one would service the tire because of the propane leak. It took us three days to find someone in a different town to finally fix it. That’s the short version of the story. We have been very disappointed with not only design flaws but the poor service from Airstream.

[jpkski]

Your modification is impressive and eliminates one serious design flaw. But...The fill port is one of a few significant design flaws I have experienced on my 2009 Interstate. I deleted all the pictures I had to submit to the insurance company. But I think I can get my point across

While driving through Nebraska near a small town called Rushville our passenger side rear inside dually blew. The results and following events were not a pleasant experience. The tire took out the mudguard, the propane hoses and fill port assembly. The hoses were wrapped around the axle. And of course the propane was leaking. There isn’t a main shut off at the tank, only the emergency 12 volt shut off to the inside appliances. Five or six hours later when the propane tank finally emptied no one would service the tire because of the propane leak. It took us three days to find someone in a different town to finally fix it. That’s the short version of the story. We have been very disappointed with not only design flaws but the poor service from Airstream.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by jpkski

Your modification is impressive and eliminates one serious design flaw. But...The fill port is one of a few significant design flaws I have experienced on my 2009 Interstate. I deleted all the pictures I had to submit to the insurance company. But I think I can get my point across

Yikes - that is a serious incident!! Thanks for sharing.

While driving through Nebraska near a small town called Rushville our passenger side rear inside dually blew. The results and following events were not a pleasant experience. The tire took out the mudguard, the propane hoses and fill port assembly. The hoses were wrapped around the axle. And of course the propane was leaking. There isn’t a main shut off at the tank, only the emergency 12 volt shut off to the inside appliances. Five or six hours later when the propane tank finally emptied no one would service the tire because of the propane leak. It took us three days to find someone in a different town to finally fix it. That’s the short version of the story. We have been very disappointed with not only design flaws but the poor service from Airstream.

It's unfortunate you don't have pictures because they would have been a great addition to a NHTSA Safety Complaint. Even without photos you should file a complaint with the info you have. An inner dual tire failure is a very common incident on RVs. I've had one myself. But they should not put your rig and personal safety at risk. Here are links to the NHTSA Safety Complaint page and a Consumer Report article about how to file complaints .

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...htsa/index.htm

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by jpkski

Your modification is impressive and eliminates one serious design flaw. But...The fill port is one of a few significant design flaws I have experienced on my 2009 Interstate. I deleted all the pictures I had to submit to the insurance company. But I think I can get my point across

While driving through Nebraska near a small town called Rushville our passenger side rear inside dually blew. The results and following events were not a pleasant experience. The tire took out the mudguard, the propane hoses and fill port assembly. The hoses were wrapped around the axle. And of course the propane was leaking. There isn’t a main shut off at the tank, only the emergency 12 volt shut off to the inside appliances. Five or six hours later when the propane tank finally emptied no one would service the tire because of the propane leak. It took us three days to find someone in a different town to finally fix it. That’s the short version of the story. We have been very disappointed with not only design flaws but the poor service from Airstream.

After reading your post above I decided it was time I took my own advice and filed a complaint with NHTSA. Here is the text of what I submitted:
Complaint Number: 11104973
Vehicle Identification Number: WD3PF4CD2C57xxxxxx
Your Vehicle's Make Model and Model Year: AIRSTREAM INTERSTATE 2013
Note: Your VIN, make, model, and year are all protected under the Privacy Act.

What part of your car was affected? Unknown or Other

What happened?
This incident happened to me in 2014 and I didn’t think much about it until recently talking to other owners of the Airstream Interstate who have had similar or worse incidents. That knowledge caused me to file this belated report since current Airstream Interstates have this same issue. This incident happened on Thursday 3/13/2014 while driving from Grand Canyon National Park to visit friends in New Mexico. I pulled off the highway at a scenic lookout spot that had a lot of very rough pavement. I rolled slowly over one particularly bad spot but didn’t think anything was abnormal. When I reached the destination campground that afternoon I discovered the true damage to the LP Fill Panel on my 2013 Airstream Interstate. The protective cover for the panel and the LP Quick-Connect fitting were missing. I only discovered the damage because I was using the LP stove inside my van to cook dinner and smelled a strong Propane odor. I stepped outside the van and discovered the damaged panel was the source of the odor as low-pressure propane was leaking into the air right behind the rear tire. I shut off the propane and repaired the damage later after returning home. I’m thankful it did not start a fire or cause other damage to my van. I’m uploading a photo that shows the location of this panel behind the rear wheels on passenger side. Also including photos of an undamaged LP Fill Panel from the side and from the rear. The last uploaded photo is the damaged LP Fill Panel on my 2013 Airstream Interstate shortly after the incident showing the missing cover panel and missing LP Quick-Connect fitting.

Files you uploaded.
AI LP port-L.jpg
IMG_2302.jpg
IMG_2518.jpg
Propane Fill Panel Damage .JPG

When did this happen? 03/13/2014

Was there a Crash? No

Was there a Fire? No

Was there an injury or fatality? No

How fast were you going? (in mph) 5

About how many miles were on your vehicle at the time of the incident? 29000

[russ240]

Wow! I wanted to do this years ago but lacked the skills/courage. Congratulations for taking this on, what a great improvement both functionally and aesthetically!

Hopefully Airstream is paying attention. Putting the propane fill in such a vulnerable position is terrible. I was always backing up to curbs to be able to fit into a parking spot and that panel was always the limiting factor on where I could or could not squeeze in .... with the Onan exhaust pipe a close second. I solved the problem by buying a different RV with no generator or propane (not to mention huge ground clearance and generous departure angle capability), but this would have been a huge improvement when I had my AI!

[jpkski]

Thanks for the suggestion Boxster1971. Actually, I’ve already filed a complaint about the tire failure. The inside sidewall separated on three of my six tires. I’m going to look on my portable hard drive to see if the pictures of the propane incident are there and submit a complaint as you suggested. Thanks again

[Titus]

Maybe this will light a fire under Airstream (no pun intended) and get some response besides their lame 'we'll think about it'.

I wonder if NHTSA allows you to file based upon a poor design that is an accident just waiting to happen, or if an accident has to actually occur.

[Passin Thru]

Although this is an old thread, I just wanted to thank Wachuko & Titus for all of their suggestions. I finally got to this project and your insight helped a lot.

It is probably good to resurrect this thread for the people that have not yet completed this project. Although I have not hit the low hanging box that I know of, there is a scrape on the bottom of it. Plus by raising it, it is easier to insert the hose for the grill.

[Schmitte]

I need to do this! Had one fall off and Just cracked the $100 replacement on a curb after getting my blue tech emissions mods done last week.

[wachuko]

Originally Posted by Schmitte

I need to do this! Had one fall off and Just cracked the $100 replacement on a curb after getting my blue tech emissions mods done last week.

Easy to do... just takes some time. Reach out if you have any questions.

[Willtan]

Originally Posted by Passin Thru

Although this is an old thread, I just wanted to thank Wachuko & Titus for all of their suggestions. I finally got to this project and your insight helped a lot.

It is probably good to resurrect this thread for the people that have not yet completed this project. Although I have not hit the low hanging box that I know of, there is a scrape on the bottom of it. Plus by raising it, it is easier to insert the hose for the grill.

Your modification looks really good in the picture and I’m eager to know what you did. Would you be able to describe how you made the modification and what parts were needed? Did you have to cut the panel to form a door out of it? Is it hinged or is it a removable panel. Any help you can provide is much appreciated.

[Titus]

only parts needed is a stainless steel piano hinge and a couple of 1/4" bolts and nuts. I cut the lower Airstream panel and put a hinge where it meets the bottom of the Sprinter panel. I used a jigsaw to make a cut across the steel plate that holds the various fittings and raised the plate so that the two sections overlap then bolted the two sections of the steel plate together. Be careful that the jigsaw blade does not cut into the propane lines that are behind the plate. Also be sure that the hinge pivot is far enough outward that the flap can be raised enough to give access to the fill port. One is tempted to put it far back so that it doesn't show, but resist the temptation. I left the plastic cover in place - so first you raise the new flap then you lower the black cover. A little more difficult to fill with propane but far better for parking bumper or curb clearance.

[Willtan]

On inspecting it today, I thought I might have to remove the formed steel plate and cut off the upper section so that the fill port unit can be mounted higher. It sounds like you cut the steel plate in place and then overlapped it. I appreciate the advice “Be careful that the jigsaw blade does not cut into the propane lines” especially since I’ve just fully filled the propane. :-)

With the newly formed cover mounted on the piano hinge, I presume you devised a way to latch it in place (rather than letting it swing freely).

[wachuko]

Originally Posted by Willtan

On inspecting it today, I thought I might have to remove the formed steel plate and cut off the upper section so that the fill port unit can be mounted higher. It sounds like you cut the steel plate in place and then overlapped it. I appreciate the advice “Be careful that the jigsaw blade does not cut into the propane lines” especially since I’ve just fully filled the propane. :-)

With the newly formed cover mounted on the piano hinge, I presume you devised a way to latch it in place (rather than letting it swing freely).

Correct. I was to lazy to remove it all to cut... I was able to cut it in place without major issues.

Also, look at my photos... I shared the catch I used... found it at the local hardware store (Lowe's)

[Willtan]

Thanks for sharing your latch solution. I was able to do the project and had to cut the steel plate in place since it is riveted and removing it was not an option.