Lemon Law – 2014.5 Airstream Interstate

[tnicola]

Originally Posted by coder

You may remember from postings last year that I am having so much trouble with my Airstream Interstate that it qualifies as a Lemon under my state’s Motor Home Lemon Law. In Washington state, the Lemon Law was enacted to help new motor home owners who have substantial continuing problems with warranty repairs, as I have had.

It’s been a long, slow, unpleasant process, and it’s still dragging on. The Interstate was with the dealer for two weeks in November, to diagnose and fix a number of things. The repairs then were not successful, so I put Airstream on notice in a letter in November that I would be using the Lemon Law.

My local dealer applied SB-164 to my Interstate on January 19, and I had brand new Lifeline batteries installed. Airstream hoped SB-164 would fix the persistent battery draw my van experiences while parked unplugged.

It didn’t. I parked the van on January 21st, with the batteries fully soaked to 12.8V. After 12 days, the batteries were down to 12.5V. On February 3, I charged the batteries for 9 hours on 110V, back up to 12.8V. On February 19, two weeks later, the batteries were again down to 12.3V or 12.4V. That’s losing 25% or more in 2 weeks. So, the truck still cannot be parked for more than a month without damaging its batteries.

I am well and truly screwed, and so discouraged. If I do anything to change the truck, such as adding my own battery disconnect, I literally lose the protection of the Lemon Law. I can pull my batteries out and pull the wires off with a wrench whenever I park the truck. Anyone who’s done that can tell you what a hassle it is, and I’m always afraid I’ll leave something hanging wrong and start a fire after I’ve left.

I’m going to have to take the truck to a marine or RV electrical specialist and have the entire electrical system checked out and fixed. It’s going to be expensive, and it’ll void my Airstream warranty and screw me on the Lemon Law, but the Airstream warranty is worthless (they haven’t been able to fix anything so far) and at least I’ll have a working truck at last.

I loved my Airstream trailer. This truck, not so much.

Our Airstream Interstate 2015 is a lemon too. Listed below is most of what we have had to deal with.
Please note the following multiple repair issues which have led to a significant interference with our ability to use this new vehicle.

Leaks - in the back top lounge cabinet (related to awning.
Leaks - leak from faulty hose fastener behind bathroom
Leaks - current defective black tank vent from overly tightened screws
Defective propane switch - needed replacing
Defective propane gauge
Tank heater pads fall off (x2)
Significant squeaking between bathroom and rear seat - major defect causing multiple interstates to need repair
Electric wiring falls down from awning strut
Awning now with jerky opening in spite of our following the necessary instructions
Toilet paper cover does not protect water from coming in to the holder well.
Bathroom fan failure
Rear canopy hook (behind the lounge sofa) has very weak breakable hooks.

Please let us know if you are willing to share what happened with your situation. We are Chicagoans, so maybe not the same situation as out west.

[felixkagi]

[QUOTE=Boxster1971;1754603]Here are the batteries under my van and a shot of the racks under construction. The last photo is a shot of my roof full of solar panels........

Attachment 257854
- - Mike
2013 Interstate Lounge EXT on 2012 Sprinter[/QUOTE

Off the subject; I notice the TV antenna mounted onto the AC shroud. Actually a great place to make room for two 100W solar panels.

I did the same thing, glueing 3 foam blocks under the antenna to stabilize it.

You may or may not have a 1/8 to 3/16 UHMW (or similar) backing disc on the underside of the shroud. If you do not, here is a word of CAUTION.

Driving up I-84 in heavy CT rush hour traffic and wind gusts in the 30mph plus range, getting hit by one of those gusts I hear a klunk, look into the driver side mirror and see a tractor/trailer eat my antenna.

Once arrived at home, a brief inspection revealed a gapping hole in the AC shroud.

Well, nothing a $120 shroud, a $100 paint job and a new antenna wouldn't fix.
The Winegard RS-3000 antennas are a little different now so it had to be mounted on a suitable place on the roof. The cable could be spliced with a connector. The existing amplifier works with the new antenna, so the job was a bit easier.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by felixkagi

Off the subject; I notice the TV antenna mounted onto the AC shroud. Actually a great place to make room for two 100W solar panels.

I did the same thing, glueing 3 foam blocks under the antenna to stabilize it.

You may or may not have a 1/8 to 3/16 UHMW (or similar) backing disc on the underside of the shroud. If you do not, here is a word of CAUTION.

Driving up I-84 in heavy CT rush hour traffic and wind gusts in the 30mph plus range, getting hit by one of those gusts I hear a klunk, look into the driver side mirror and see a tractor/trailer eat my antenna.

Once arrived at home, a brief inspection revealed a gapping hole in the AC shroud.

Well, nothing a $120 shroud, a $100 paint job and a new antenna wouldn't fix.
The Winegard RS-3000 antennas are a little different now so it had to be mounted on a suitable place on the roof. The cable could be spliced with a connector. The existing amplifier works with the new antenna, so the job was a bit easier.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I'll check mine tomorrow. Can't remember exactly how I attached the antenna to the A/C cover. It's been on there for two years and 40,000 miles. I did add two spacer blocks to the rear edge of the antenna to give it a slight "nose" down so it would be less likely to get ripped off by the wind.

[John Millner]

Sorry for your troubles but the electrical issue is normal. My batteries draw down about the same amount within your time frame. The propane fume detector is an electrical draw plus if you leave the switch on for your propane even more voltage is used. I charge mine for 48 hours once every three weeks which seems to work. If you go beyond three weeks without plugging in you may over drain your batteries and may damage them FYI.

[mssciteacher]

I'm sorry to say that, we too, are experiencing issues with our 2016 Grand Tour. We've made 19 (mostly short) trips in it since we purchased it and something has gone wrong/broken over 50% of the time! I have an appointment to talk to the general manager about all our problems next week. Hoping to find a fair and reasonable solution. California's Lemon Law applies only to the chassis, chassis cab, and drivetrain of a motorhome and we've had no problem with the Mercedes portion of our coach. However, there is a federal law called the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act which covers defects in materials or workmanship. I have heard that there are law firms that will take cases on a "no-fee unless you win" basis. I'm hoping not to have to go the litigation route though just want Airstream to do the right thing!

[tnicola]

As you state a large percentage of our time is repairing broken items on our Airstream Lounge Ext 2015. We have replies from Mr. Goetz and Mr. McNeeley who are 'sorry' about our experiences and they 'stand' by the warranty to fix these things. There is no reference to workmanship, time spent getting it fixed, or lost ability to use the vehicle. Most importantly it would seem that the Interstates may not be having inspection, i.e. no quality control from Airstream. I am hearing more and more stories how broken they are.

We are going to the RV show in Hershey Pennsylvania in September to see what is out there. Our new rule - no RVs without proof of inspection and who did it.

Good luck.

[gmillerok1]

Originally Posted by tnicola

As you state a large percentage of our time is repairing broken items on our Airstream Lounge Ext 2015. We have replies from Mr. Goetz and Mr. McNeeley who are 'sorry' about our experiences and they 'stand' by the warranty to fix these things. There is no reference to workmanship, time spent getting it fixed, or lost ability to use the vehicle. Most importantly it would seem that the Interstates may not be having inspection, i.e. no quality control from Airstream. I am hearing more and more stories how broken they are.

We are going to the RV show in Hershey Pennsylvania in September to see what is out there. Our new rule - no RVs without proof of inspection and who did it.

Good luck.

Randy is a great guy and really tries his best to resolve post production issues. But he is in customer support, after the sale and delivery, not production. Fixing post production issues is all those guys do, day in and day out. They have no say in workmanship or anything else for that matter.

The reality is that all the Class B builders, save one, are pretty much in the same league. Quality of the build does not, it seem to matter, as long as fixing the post-sales issues does not eat into profits too much. If it did, it would get someone's attention. The focus is production and sales, not quality.

But it is a hit or miss game; I visited with another couple last week with a 2014 model that told me they had no major issues with their Interstate.

The only builder where you won't have build quality issues is Advanced RV. But add another 100 grand to the price for that privilege, something I cannot justify, considering these vans depreciate as fast as they do.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by tnicola

...Our new rule - no RVs without proof of inspection and who did it.

....

My prediction: It won't make a bit of difference in your outcome. My husband and I paid to have an inspection done by a reputable third-party outfit (we did the research on them) before we bought ours. They missed every single problem; we might as well have flushed our inspection fee down the toilet.

The problem is that these rigs are so rare and so specialized that even a seasoned inspector has no idea what (s)he is looking at. It's almost like looking at one-of-a-kind vehicles, for the unprecedented way that they appear to inspectors.

Whether inspection or repair, the same phenomenon manifests, for the same reason - overwhelming inefficiencies associated with the upfit learning curve.

For example, this past weekend, we collaborated with another couple to re-plumb their gray water system (they assisted us with the job). It took us one day and about $75 in parts. I have historical reports from the internet that other Interstate owners with the same defect have waited with their rigs out of commission in the shop for up to 6 weeks, with bills in the range of $2,000 - $2,500 for the same work - only done with much poorer workmanship, because many repair shops just won't take the time to develop the kind of procedure that my husband did. The main difference is that they don't know what they're doing, and we do, frankly. And they have no business incentives to develop proper methods because the market demands for those specific methods will remain so low (because Interstates are so few in number).

The only way out of this predicament is to find someone with enough Interstate-specific experience such that they are capable of global pattern recognition during an inspection. Obviously Lewster can do it with respect to electrical matters, but the electrical system is just one aspect of an Interstate (albeit a real bear of an aspect). I have never heard of any single "purple squirrel" who could bring that kind of experience to a vehicle-wide inspection. My husband and I are getting closer to having that kind of experience, but only on the T1N Interstate. We wouldn't know what to do with an NCV3 supposing it bit us on the rear ends. That's just the nature of this beast.

[tnicola]

All the comments are valuable here.

One note - In regard to the value of inspections, the Airstream trailers go through a type of inspection in this one room with a massive rain shower or hosing of the shell to look for leaks. This could be done, but does not apparently occur with the Interstates. This simple inspection tool would have found at least two of our leaks. The third leak would have been found by looking for hose leaks just behind the bathroom in the cabinet opening while the water is running. I submit that the right inspection can reveal Interstate defects.

One more defect the infamous Interstate creaking that occurs with the lounge seat assembly behind the bathroom while driving. It drove our passengers nuts until USAdventureRV(great repair team) fixed that problem.

So one piece of advice is before buying an Interstate at least have the dealership hose it down. Also really run the water and water pump through the hosing with the back panel open. This is actually what USAdventureRV did to find the leaks we after discovering the untimely leaks on different trips.

Or in my respectful opinion - a trained inspector in the right setting will be able to find at least some of the problems noted. These defects may be common to Interstates in general.

Leaks - in the back top lounge cabinet (related to awning.
Leaks - leak from faulty hose fastener behind bathroom
Leaks - current defective black tank vent from overly tightened screws
Defective propane switch - needed replacing
Defective propane gauge
Tank heater pads fall off (x2)
Significant squeaking between bathroom and rear seat - major defect causing multiple interstates to need repair
Electric wiring falls down from awning strut
Awning now with jerky opening in spite of our following the necessary instructions
Toilet paper cover does not protect water from coming in to the holder well.
Bathroom fan failure
Rear canopy hook (behind the lounge sofa) has very weak breakable hooks.

Let me know if these seem familiar. I submit the right inspector can find these problems.

[tnicola]

....forgot to add that USAdventureRV (Naperville, Illinois) hosed down our interstate and that is how they found two of our leaks. Its a workable inspection tool for potential leaks.