Incinerator Toilet In 2018 AI

[InterBlog]

We are getting ahead of the OP, but I'm responding to that wave rather than instigating it.

If someone is going to the trouble to put up a toilet tent, why not opt for a conventional exterior composting set-up?

Pit toilets, properly constructed, fall into the "You've come a lot way, baby" category. No sense getting into details until we hear the OP's further feedback, but I've been impressed by what I've seen. We encountered some heavy-use ones last year in the Cape Breton Highlands National Park that were remarkable. Not a whiff of any odor.

If not pit, then maybe blind tank. Not a septic tank but one that is pumped out by a contractor, similar to porta-pottie idea but without the rental fees.

[WillieJ]

I worked for a company that built small diesel gen-sets to be used to power incinerator toilets on the North Slope during the '70s when the Alaska pipeline was being built. Used a single cylinder Lister air cooled diesel and a Lima generator.

So incinerator toilets have been around for a long time.

[carpenc]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

This thread presents a good opportunity to develop the kind of quantitative analysis that eludes so many threads.

First, a little detail. Can you tells us, without violating your own privacy:

(1) What state or province your property is in
(2) Which 3 months exactly
(3) How big your tract of land is
(4) How private your tract is
(5) Whether your property is accessed by public roads only, or combination of public and private
(6) How many people will need to use the toilet system(s) - EDIT - I now see family of four. What ages approximately? Older or younger children?
(7) How often you plan to make grocery and energy runs
(8) How far away the grocery and energy sources are (I assume you'll need propane?)
(9) How often you anticipate moving your Interstate for local trips (it wouldn't do well sitting continuously for 3 months without being moved at least a couple of times).
(10) You stated water and electricity sources - is the water potable?

That ought to be a start on scoping out the options.

NJ in the summer, one acre semi private on a public road that is traveled only by the few residents.. I am trying to avoid tearing down by renting a car. And the others using it would be camping guests including guests which is why I don’t want to “share” the current toilet—too many things could go wrong.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by carpenc

NJ in the summer, one acre semi private on a public road that is traveled only by the few residents.. I am trying to avoid tearing down by renting a car. And the others using it would be camping guests including guests which is why I don’t want to “share” the current toilet—too many things could go wrong.

Thanks for the details. Echoing earlier comments to rent a porta-potty, or have a toilet tent for the "campground" incinerator toilet. If needed, double the number of seats in the "rear theater" . . .

Good luck,

Peter

[InterBlog]

Specific heat of water: 4.186 joule/gram °C

Does anyone know how much propane these fiery johns consume?

Propane-hauling can get old (and expensive). My off-grid neighbors have a full-sized house with a full-sized Dometic fridge. That thing eats propane like a gobble monster in a Ghostbusters movie. They are always schlepping tanks.

Part of the analysis involves the question -- how many other travel scenarios would demand that you have a fiery john instead of a regular toilet? Is this a one-time or a once-per-year deal that could be satisfied by a super-duper porta-pottie (public road access), or will you need it routinely going forward?

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by WillieJ

I worked for a company that built small diesel gen-sets to be used to power incinerator toilets on the North Slope during the '70s when the Alaska pipeline was being built. Used a single cylinder Lister air cooled diesel and a Lima generator.

So incinerator toilets have been around for a long time.

In this Alaskan scenario in the 1970s, there was little choice.

Fixed diesel gensets are, in many scenarios, functionally illegal in Texas unless they are being used for true emergencies (such as powering sewage lift stations and potable water distribution plants in the event of a loss of electricity).

Why? Because their production of pollution is fabulously high relative to their energy output. Obviously if sewage needs to keep flowing, then it is on balance in the public interest to emit those pollutants. But the cost-benefit analysis doesn't work in other scenarios.

Someone is going to jump on me and say, "Oh no, they are sold and used..." Yes, but in order to be used legally for a routine stationary purpose, they need air permits, and good luck with that. Thankfully, they've been supplanted by natural gas units.

[pdavitt]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

Does anyone know how much propane these fiery johns consume?

According to the Specs, Urine cycle = 0.07lbs., Waste cycle = 0.18lbs.

Pat

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by pdavitt

According to the Specs, Urine cycle = 0.07lbs., Waste cycle = 0.18lbs.

Pat

PAT - Is that for a different model/manufacturer? The ECOJOHN specs show the propane units use 0.14lb. (urine) / 0.35lb. (waste) per cycle. Either way, the AI propane tank (14.55 g / 61 lbs.) would empty out fairly quick with 4 people if some of the other propane appliances also get used

[andyherman]

Received the owner's manual. The price does NOT include shipping, which would probably be pretty significant as well (the rep said they are currently running a President's Day sale, which includes the otherwise added cost of shipping).

[andyherman]

Sorry, here's the manual.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by Alex AVI

PAT - Is that for a different model/manufacturer? The ECOJOHN specs show the propane units use 0.14lb. (urine) / 0.35lb. (waste) per cycle. Either way, the AI propane tank (14.55 g / 61 lbs.) would empty out fairly quick with 4 people if some of the other propane appliances also get used

Now we're talkin'. Real come-to-the-Almighty numbers could put this idea to bed quickly.

Someone might say, "Oh but it wouldn't need to be THAT high - sometimes people could just "use the woods" instead of the fiery john.

As an off-grid property owner, trust me on this next part: if all the OP has is one acre, and the OP plans to be there for 3 months, he does NOT want multiple people continually peeing all over the place. Larger acreages, yeah, we might be able to distribute that without discernible impact. But not a small property.

EDIT: I should have also run the costs in that graphic below... making reasonable assumptions, it works out to be about $350 for the propane across the 3-month adventure (plus time and effort to haul it). On top of a $3,000 toilet. Personally, I'd be going for a high-quality rental pottie (a good one, with proper construction, no odors, and a good treatment tank).

[pdavitt]

Originally Posted by Alex AVI

PAT - Is that for a different model/manufacturer? The ECOJOHN specs show the propane units use 0.14lb. (urine) / 0.35lb. (waste) per cycle. Either way, the AI propane tank (14.55 g / 61 lbs.) would empty out fairly quick with 4 people if some of the other propane appliances also get used

Alex,
No, same manufacturer, you must have been looking at the SR-5 model. From the EcoJohn website the TinyJohn specs are below.
Pat

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by pdavitt

Alex,
No, same manufacturer, you must have been looking at the SR-5 model. From the EcoJohn website the TinyJohn specs are below.
Pat

PAT - yeah, I was looking at SR5/SR12 specs. Did not realize theres separate TinyJohn. From the looks of it, I guess SR series are more for tiny home installs.

[carpenc]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

Now we're talkin'. Real come-to-the-Almighty numbers could put this idea to bed quickly.

Someone might say, "Oh but it wouldn't need to be THAT high - sometimes people could just "use the woods" instead of the fiery john.

As an off-grid property owner, trust me on this next part: if all the OP has is one acre, and the OP plans to be there for 3 months, he does NOT want multiple people continually peeing all over the place. Larger acreages, yeah, we might be able to distribute that without discernible impact. But not a small property.

EDIT: I should have also run the costs in that graphic below... making reasonable assumptions, it works out to be about $350 for the propane across the 3-month adventure (plus time and effort to haul it). On top of a $3,000 toilet. Personally, I'd be going for a high-quality rental pottie (a good one, with proper construction, no odors, and a good treatment tank).

Incinerator more appealing because : I don’t want septic on my beautiful flood prone land for environmental reasons. Also, I don’t want compost toilet for same reason . I’m looking for a way to avoid waste period.
The rent-a potty is a good solution but the costs in my neck of the woods would be a few k per month. At that cost you have to wonder what good is camping/glamping with all this equipment & money!

[carpenc]

Thanks everyone. Who knew waste elimination could take so many forms.
I’ll hope Cinderella comes up with a smaller incin toilet so I could happily give up maserator & it’s space in return for a propane potty!

[carpenc]

Eliminate the need for a maserator and the maserator itself and you have the space & propane power to incin the poop.

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by carpenc

Eliminate the need for a maserator and the maserator itself and you have the space & propane power to incin the poop.

CARPENC - you have lots of folks rooting for you in hopes you can get this to work. It would be a neat option to have this choice. BTW - regarding macerator, unless you are going to a straight 3" standard sewer hose for your grey tank, wouldn't you still need a macerator? Or am I wrong, because technically grey tank should not have any solid waste in it?

[andyherman]

I was seriously considering the TinyJohn for my property - that is until I read the county code. Any incinerating toilet must be approved by the state and the TinyJohn IS NOT approved in Washington state. The only incinerating toilet approved here is the Incinolet - pretty much the same process as the TinyJohn but it only uses electricity, not propane.


I much prefer the look of the TinyJohn, but the Incinlet is about half the price - $1,870.00. I haven't read a lot of the specific specs on it. It's all steel with an option to order it with a plastic "facade". That's for the 120 volt model, there are also 208/240 volt models.



https://incinolet.com/?_vsrefdom=adw...oaAs4OEALw_wcB

[InterBlog]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but codes only apply to permanent installations. Someone could place a temporary asset on a property, and it would not be subject.

We know all about that in flood-prone Texas. Many temporary assets are placed on tracts in order to avoid regulatory subjugation. I'm not saying I have done it - I'm just saying it is done. A lot.

The electrical option is intriguing because the OP mentioned that there is electricity present. That could resolve the propane issue.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by carpenc

Incinerator more appealing because : I don’t want septic on my beautiful flood prone land for environmental reasons. ...

BTW, when you get established this summer, I hope you are able to post a few pics. So far, LB_3 and I are the only Interstate owners we know of who set up on our own private land for extended off-grid stays. On land that was specifically configured for that purpose. Maybe there are more - if so, I'd love to hear about what they do.