I hate the MACERATOR system!

[Billshop]

my..my..... aren't we cranky

[xrvr]

Cranky, but correct. Jim

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Billshop

my..my..... aren't we cranky

Yeah. But I expected worse. The grumpiness doesn't bother me. But the dismissal of logical argument with the term "rationalization" does. I tried hard to simply lay out a careful, rational argument. Of my 7 points, all but one was either ignored or contradicted with a just-so statement:

Originally Posted by SmokelessJoe

With two tanks you simply have more storage capacity and MORE flexibility.

This is just not true. It is obvious that for a given volume of under-vehicle space, a single tank will have greater capacity than two tanks. Nobody is saying that less storage is better than more. But all else being equal, you get more total storage in a single tank than in two.

Originally Posted by SmokelessJoe

Since the grey always fills before the black you can move some of the grey into the black on occasion.

Yes. And if you had only one large tank, the grey water would have been there to begin with and you wouldn't have had to bother. Think this through. The argument is nonsense.

Originally Posted by SmokelessJoe

That also helps with discharging the solids..

As it would if it were there in the first place. Plus, it would be constantly sloshing around as you drive, helping keep the solids from clumping.


Which leave us with the "its ok to dump gray water down a gopher hole" argument. Fine. I will not enter that argument. If you agree with this statement, and are willing to (in most cases) ignore the law, AND if you believe that this one point trumps all the others, then I concede the point.

Cheers,
--Pete

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by avanti

Of my 7 points, all but one was either ignored or contradicted with a just-so statement:

This is just not true. It is obvious that for a given volume of under-vehicle space, a single take will have greater capacity than two tanks. Nobody is saying that less storage is better than more. But all else being equal, you get more total storage in a single tank than in two.

Back when Interstates were first introduced, they had one holding tank and a slinky, according to the 2004 Interstate owner's manual I downloaded from the Airstream website. I don't know what size the holding tank was, but I doubt it was 52 gallons.

Late-model Interstates have two holding tanks of 26 gallons each, for a total capacity of 52 gallons.

So, as long as we're limiting the discussion to actual Interstates, and not some theoretical generic motorhome, the dual tanks probably do have more capacity.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

So, as long as we're limiting the discussion to actual Interstates, and not some theoretical generic motorhome, the dual tanks probably do have more capacity.

I completely agree. But this thread was about modifications (real or hypothetical), therefore I though that theoretical discussions were in bounds. Sorry if I wasn't clear. My comments were intended to address how (IMO) motorhomes should be designed.

[avanti]

BTW: For the record, my 2005 Interstate has a 30 gal fresh water tank and a 31 gal combined waste tank, which made sense. Remember: this vehicle was based on a Sprinter 2500, with only two rear wheels, so in general we are talking about a smaller, lower-capacity vehicle as compared to the later Interstates.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by avanti

I completely agree. But this thread was about modifications (real or hypothetical), therefore I though that theoretical discussions were in bounds. Sorry if I wasn't clear. My comments were intended to address how (IMO) motorhomes should be designed.

Glad we cleared that up. I— and maybe some others on the thread— thought we were discussing modifying the wastewater system of an Interstate rather than discussing the theory of wastewater system design. No wonder there was a disagreement!

[UKDUDE]

Sorry guys, I didn't intend to precipitate a heated argument on this topic. If you look at my opening post, you can clearly blame my wife for taking too long in the bathroom!!
I'll try to love my macerator in future.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by UKDUDE

Sorry guys, I didn't intend to precipitate a heated argument on this topic. If you look at my opening post, you can clearly blame my wife for taking too long in the bathroom!!
I'll try to love my macerator in future.

You don't need to love it. Tolerating it should be enough. After all, it still has the crappy low-quality hose reel that winds up too fast and doesn't have a guide to keep the hose from binding.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by UKDUDE

Sorry guys, I didn't intend to precipitate a heated argument on this topic.

Actually, I am glad you did. The reason I made my contribution is that I am seriously considering doing a high-end Sprinter-based B-van build from scratch--as an upgrade of my '05 Interstate. If I do so, everything will be on the table, and discussions such as this help me to clarify my thinking. Again, I apologize if I pushed the thread beyond its original intent.

[wayneskid]

Avanti,

You said "It is obvious that for a given volume of under-vehicle space, a single tank will have greater capacity than two tanks."

I don't think it's obvious at all. As long as we are willing to discuss the theoretical, it would depend entirely on the size and shape of the under-vehicle space. It's easy to visualize many scenarios where you could fit 2 25 gal. tanks but could not fit one 50 gal. tank.

[adonh]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

You don't need to love it. Tolerating it should be enough. After all, it still has the crappy low-quality hose reel that winds up too fast and doesn't have a guide to keep the hose from binding.

Is this the hose reel that you have?

Shoreline Reels Black/Gray Water Hose Reel

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by adonh

Is this the hose reel that you have?

Shoreline Reels Black/Gray Water Hose Reel

Can't be certain without crawling underneath and finding a data plate or label, but I think so.

[Boxster1971]

According to the owners manual my 2013 Interstate has a 27 gallon grey water tank and a 16 gallon black water tank -- still a 43 gallon total capacity. The fresh water tank is 26 gallons.

But you can fill 27 gallon grey tank quickly if you aren't careful.

- - Mike

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

According to the owners manual my 2013 Interstate has a 27 gallon grey water tank and a 16 gallon black water tank -- still a 43 gallon total capacity. The fresh water tank is 26 gallons.

But you can fill 27 gallon grey tank quickly if you aren't careful.

- - Mike

Son of a gun. After you posted this, I went back and checked my manual. You're right about the capacities. All this time I've been going by what the salesman told me, which was obviously wrong. Just goes to show that one should always read the manual cover-to-cover.

[eliasurbina]

New user 2013 3500 EXT.

First long trip - 3 weeks for me and I learned a lot about hose, macerator, water use and dumping. I would like to share my experiences for my learning curve.

First, my hose pinched and cut open a few leaks. I removed 1" off my hose, replaced the fittings and put a screw on fastener to hold. Now I am careful how I reel up the hose.

My macerator failed because of paper. I tried to fix at various dealerships and everyone needed too much time (weeks) to fix. I pulled out owners manual and got a very big flat head screw driver, took off the rubber protective cover off the macerator screw and turned the screw clockwise until it freed up stuck paper. It was easier than I thought yet everyone was telling me all sorts of costly solutions. I decided to order a hand held bidet and installed from water supply supply on toilet. Although we use more water to black tank, it makes for a much more comfortable bathroom experience, especially for wife and now use very little paper if any. Also, I started using the GEO method for black water tank to help keep clean, this seems to work very well.

On water use, you really need to experiment how your use is. For example the first few days I found myself having to dump everyday. But after a while you become more efficient. My first night (no city hook up) I used too much water leaving my wife soapy for her first experience - this did not go over so well. Now we both know, for 1 night stay without city water but full tank water, we need about a third each for a shower and the other third for cooking, cleaning and toilet.

I found my dumping experience very easy once I fixed my macerator. I have a app that has dump sites, paid reasonable fees to dump and did the dump within 3 to 5 minutes. When I was in full service locations, I set up city water and dump hose and just monitored and dumped as necessary at two thirds to full. Again, just took minutes to do. Endless showers. I also ordered an outside shower for remote locations that I am looking forward to using soon.

Well, hit and miss for me, but I am very happy that I went through these issues to learn more about the capabilities, lack thereof and how to remedy by myself.

I had a wonderful trip and would rather sleep in the Interstate than at home, my home is not shabby at all, but I just love that vehicle. I too have a lot of suggestions and have started a few modifications as well, but overall a very good experience.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by eliasurbina

My macerator failed because of paper. I tried to fix at various dealerships and everyone needed too much time (weeks) to fix. … I decided to order a hand held bidet and installed from water supply supply on toilet. Although we use more water to black tank, it makes for a much more comfortable bathroom experience, especially for wife and now use very little paper if any.

I find that a small covered wastebasket (with liner) for used toilet paper also works. If it never goes in the toilet, it can't clog anything.

Now we both know, for 1 night stay without city water but full tank water, we need about a third each for a shower and the other third for cooking, cleaning and toilet.

The sponge is your friend. Fill the bathroom sink. Turn off water. Soak the sponge. Wet down with the sponge rather than the shower. Soap up. Turn on water. Rinse with shower head. You'll save a lot of water that way. Only use the shower head to wet down if you're washing an abundant head of hair, and turn it off as soon as you're wet.

Waterless hand sanitizer is also a great water-saver. Can be used on more than just your hands when you need a quick spot-wash. I use hand sanitizer on dirty feet, too.

I too have a lot of suggestions and have started a few modifications as well, but overall a very good experience.

Keep us informed on the mods. Especially if they're ones you found somewhere other than AirForums. They might be something we can use.