How bad is damage to my House Battery?

[Jbrannack]

We stored our 2016 Airstream Interstate at a heated storage facility for boats and RVs this winter. The facility did not connect shore power properly and house battery allowed to completely run down when we came to pick it up.
Since then it we have kept our vehicle at home and always plugged into shore power. I just returned from first boondocking trip in Central Oregon and noticed the batter voltage drops all the way below 11 Volts by morning even if I turn of the refrigerator and am very sparing with power usage. I used the generator to get the charge back up to full each day with same result of drop in charge below 11 volts. Can anyone tell me how to determine the extent of damage to our house battery ? Thank You in advance...

[wulfraat]

I think you've answered you own question unfortunately. Sounds like the battery is Tostitos.

To determine the amp hour capacity remaining - you'd need to do a controlled draw-down test. If you don't have the equipment (sound like you don't) take it to an Autozone, or Interstate shop or what have you and they can test it.

But... if its bouncing below 11v on a regular basis... it's Tostitos.

[mbubbaca]

I agree it's not going to come back and hold a charge for you. You might limp by for a while while on Shore Power but the battery will leave stranded you when you least expect it. Is it in warranty?

[FlyFishinRVr]

As the others have said, take them out and have them load tested. You'll likely need to take them out to replace them anyway, because, yeah, letting AGMs go flat and stay flat is a perfect way to kill them.

Is your storage facility taking any responsibility or ownership for this? Seems they should, so you might want to approach them and see if they'll chip in for new batteries. Two 80Ah Lifelines are gonna run ya about $500.....

[c21]

You might want to give Lifeline Batteries a call. They have been very good about offering a discount on replacing damaged batteries in Airstreams.

[SilverHouseDreams]

I would strongly consider BattleBorn drop-in replacement LiPO4. A single pack will provide 100Ah useable, while you would need 2 100Ah AGMs to even get close. The BattleBorn does cost more up front but should have a far longer service life and they weigh a fraction of what an AGM does.

One huge upside of the BattleBorn using integrated BMS is that you *cannot* over discharge the battery, so this will never happen again. Without rewiring a few devices (e.g. propane detector and break away switch) to feed through the BMS you will always have the risk of this repeating itself with an AGM or a external BMS lithium solution, which would be a very painful and upsetting occurrence (and could be far worse than just losing your batteries).

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by Xipper

I would strongly consider BattleBorn drop-in replacement LiPO4. A single pack will provide 100Ah useable, while you would need 2 100Ah AGMs to even get close. The BattleBorn does cost more up front but should have a far longer service life and they weigh a fraction of what an AGM does.

One huge upside of the BattleBorn using integrated BMS is that you *cannot* over discharge the battery, so this will never happen again. Without rewiring a few devices (e.g. propane detector and break away switch) to feed through the BMS you will always have the risk of this repeating itself with an AGM or a external BMS lithium solution, which would be a very painful and upsetting occurrence (and could be far worse than just losing your batteries).

OP is from Portland, OR where it does freeze so switching to LiPO4 batteries will also some way to avoid charging them when freezing temps exist. That means taking them out or adding some sort of battery heating systems. LiPO4 are great batteries for weight and power considerations but you must deal with their weakness of not charging when freezing or else the batteries will be damaged. That is the main reason I stayed with AGM batteries.

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by Xipper

I would strongly consider BattleBorn drop-in replacement LiPO4. A single pack will provide 100Ah useable, while you would need 2 100Ah AGMs to even get close. The BattleBorn does cost more up front but should have a far longer service life and they weigh a fraction of what an AGM does.

One huge upside of the BattleBorn using integrated BMS is that you *cannot* over discharge the battery, so this will never happen again. Without rewiring a few devices (e.g. propane detector and break away switch) to feed through the BMS you will always have the risk of this repeating itself with an AGM or a external BMS lithium solution, which would be a very painful and upsetting occurrence (and could be far worse than just losing your batteries).

To add to Boxter's concern, how do these batteries play with all of the charging sources in our rigs? Are they compatible with charging algorithms provided by the solar controller, Magnum, and alternator? I would love to look into these if the answer is "yes"....

[wulfraat]

Victron 702 battery monitor with an appropriate relay switch will solve for that issue. 702 will monitor temperature and activate the relay to disconnect charging loads at whatever temperature you set.

Now that being said you'll need to ensure you completely understand the wiring schematics of the coach to ensure you route all charging sources through the relay...

....and thus the proverbial can of worms has now been opened regarding a lithium upgrade

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by wulfraat

....and thus the proverbial can of worms has now been opened regarding a lithium upgrade

You had to go and whack that nest of bees didn't you.....

[SilverHouseDreams]

The BMS built into the BattleBorn requires nothing extra. It cuts off charging if temperature is too low. It is compatible with likely any and all chargers and converters that support flooded cell or AGM...but anything that actually does a boost is better to force balancing. So a good 4 stage converter is better than a single stage.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

There is no magic in batteries. Either you damaged them or you didn't. Putting a good charge on them is the first step - check the charge setup. Testing them is the next step - run a test. If they are toast, get out the Visa card.

Bob

[guskmg]

Lithium batteries won't freeze and hence not charge if they are installed in a heated compartment. In the case of long term outside storage, if the batteries are stored in the recommended 60% charged condition, there is plenty of useable power left to get the intererior up to temperature with the furnace, then turn on the charger. That is one reason the Airstrem battery boxes are not recomended for Lithiums. However, it is easy enough to place a heating pad under those batteries and that would help them moisture wise. Some have used aquarium pads, but a small 12v pad would be more efficient.
guskmg

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by Xipper

The BMS built into the BattleBorn requires nothing extra. It cuts off charging if temperature is too low. It is compatible with likely any and all chargers and converters that support flooded cell or AGM...but anything that actually does a boost is better to force balancing. So a good 4 stage converter is better than a single stage.

Thanks.

I did some research on their site and found this:

You can use any standard charger, solar or wind charge controller to charge our LIFEPO4 deep cycle battery. There are some chargers and controllers that are programmable to get full usage out of your battery, but most will have an AGM setting which normally bulk charges about 14.4 volts and floats at 13.6 volts. These levels are great for your Battle Born battery.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by FlyFishinRVr

Thanks.

I did some research on their site and found this:

You can use any standard charger, solar or wind charge controller to charge our LIFEPO4 deep cycle battery. There are some chargers and controllers that are programmable to get full usage out of your battery, but most will have an AGM setting which normally bulk charges about 14.4 volts and floats at 13.6 volts. These levels are great for your Battle Born battery.

Hi

As long as you are happy with the lack of capacity on your batteries when "fully" charged ..... The typical stock AS charger controllers only go up to 13.6V ....

Bob

[SilverHouseDreams]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi



As long as you are happy with the lack of capacity on your batteries when "fully" charged ..... The typical stock AS charger controllers only go up to 13.6V ....



Bob

I did suggest a 4 stage, and a 4 stage converter is far cheaper than a Victron BMS and relays and other circuitry complexity. A progressive dynamics 4 stage converter is a drop in replacement for most AS.

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

As long as you are happy with the lack of capacity on your batteries when "fully" charged ..... The typical stock AS charger controllers only go up to 13.6V ....

Bob

My Renogy solar charge controller will go to what ever voltage I program it to, and the alternator typically sits at 14.2 - 14.4v. Both of these are my primary charging sources (I never plug in), so from my perspective, the Battle Born would be "drop in" replacements and I would indeed get "full" capacity from them. If I had $3600 sitting around with nothing to do, I'd consider tossing 4 of these bad boys under my coach and go "glamping" in the woods for days, just 'cause I could.

Nice find Xipper and thanks much for the heads up on these.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by FlyFishinRVr

My Renogy solar charge controller will go to what ever voltage I program it to, and the alternator typically sits at 14.2 - 14.4v. Both of these are my primary charging sources (I never plug in), so from my perspective, the Battle Born would be "drop in" replacements and I would indeed get "full" capacity from them. If I had $3600 sitting around with nothing to do, I'd consider tossing 4 of these bad boys under my coach and go "glamping" in the woods for days, just 'cause I could.

Nice find Xipper and thanks much for the heads up on these.

Hi

So now we have dropped the idea of "standard" chargers altogether and gone to programmables. As I recall the original question was about linking up lithiums and lead acid chargers ..... which is not a good idea.

Bob

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

So now we have dropped the idea of "standard" chargers altogether and gone to programmables. As I recall the original question was about linking up lithiums and lead acid chargers ..... which is not a good idea.

Bob

Nope. Nothing you can do about the alternator. It's gonna charge at 14.2 - 14.4v. You can't change it.

In my case, since I don't charge/maintain with the Magnum and already have a programmable solar controller, the Battle Borns would work. Other's would have to determine their own situation, but according to the BB web site, their claim is if a charger will work with AGMs, it will work with the BB's (that's the bit that I copied/pasted in bold in one of my previous posts).

Anyway, the perfect time to kick around ideas is when your house batteries have kicked the bucket, so hopefully some of this gives the OP some ideas on different ways to proceed. Personally I wouldn't go with Lithiums on my coach due to cost, but if that wasn't an issue, I like the BB specs. Others seem to like the Victron Lithiums and all the other Victron bits to go along with them (chargers, isolators, monitors....Victron has it all), some like Relion, some like Lithionics (James at the FitRV), and the list goes on. Heck, if money's not a problem and you want to get crazy, just call Mike at Advanced RV and schedule a visit and his guys will install a second alternator dedicated to charging a BIG Lithium battery bank and get rid of the noisy, smelly on-board LP generator (their Lithium tray replaces the genset). If you go with his new high-voltage components from Volta, you can run your A/C for over 8 hours. All it takes is time and money.....

[squirerad]

I actually have a new Born Battery 100 Ah sitting unopened in my bedroom as I ponder if I can just swap out my dead Lifeline AGM for them. Did you do a true "drop-in replacement" without changing anything else like the sucky Atkinson controller, etc?