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01-01-2019, 05:27 PM
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#21
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4 Rivet Member
2016 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Houston
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 333
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Been able to do some research. Looks like solutions are starting to emerge from vendors. Victron has a product line that can fit the bill, but one from Xantrex looks interesting.
http://www.xantrex.com/industry-solu...edome-gen.aspx
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01-01-2019, 06:09 PM
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#22
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4 Rivet Member
2015 Interstate Grand Tour
Lake Oswego
, Oregon
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 418
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McRider et al:
Just a heads up on that Xantrex web page. At this page they describe their battery technology in no less than three different ways: Lithium ion, lithium ion iron phosphate, and lithium iron.
http://www.xantrex.com/documents/Acc...lustration.pdf
I assume they intend to call it lithium iron phosphate, leaving all three descriptors on the same page to be in error to one degree or another.
Doesn't anybody proofread anymore ?
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01-01-2019, 06:10 PM
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#23
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4 Rivet Member
2015 Interstate Grand Tour
Lake Oswego
, Oregon
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 418
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McRider et al:
Just a heads up on that Xantrex web page. At this page they describe their battery technology in no less than three different ways: Lithium ion, lithium ion iron phosphate, and lithium iron.
http://www.xantrex.com/documents/Acc...lustration.pdf
I assume they intend to call it lithium iron phosphate, leaving all three descriptors on the same page to be in error to one degree or another.
Doesn't anybody proofread anymore ?
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01-01-2019, 06:23 PM
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#24
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4 Rivet Member
2016 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Houston
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 333
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The Winnebago and Advanced RV use the Volta system. They now have three different conversion kits for the Sprinter.
https://voltapowersystems.com/wp-con...gy-storage-rv/
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01-02-2019, 01:33 AM
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#25
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Rivet Master
2018 Interstate Lounge Ext
LV
, Nevada
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 2,580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcrider
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MCRIDER - Good stuff & plenty good reading. Lots more options, always good for consumers
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01-02-2019, 09:48 AM
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#26
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Luminous
1983 27' Excella
Vesuvius
, Virginia
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 228
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The Tesla Powerwalls are interesting, but I asked an engineer for the local successful solar installation company about them, and he said he is not ready to recommend them.
So Im waiting a few years to see if there is some power wall-like derivative
coming from Porsche R&D via VW.
__________________
Steve
83 Excella 27
07 Tundra Limited
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01-03-2019, 04:52 AM
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#27
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International Grey Nomad
1999 35' Cutter Bus Diesel Pusher
Bulahdelah
, NSW Australia
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 232
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Why?
__________________
Tony LEE
International Grey Nomad.
Travel photos at Picasa Album
Trip map at Spotwalla
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01-04-2019, 01:37 AM
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#28
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Rivet Master
2016 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Bellevue
, Washington
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 689
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I hope folks know that the cells used in EVs are subject to thermal runaway and hence the various fires and such online. Better not deploy them without a ton of knowledge and at any rate, not inside the RV.
The cells we usually use LifePO4. These are very safe in comparison and do not have the potential for thermal runaway The reason they don't use them in EVs is because they don't have the same energy density of the little cells your see in Tesla batteries and such. For our application, that loss of efficiency is worth getting the much safer chemistry.
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01-04-2019, 08:51 AM
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#29
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4 Rivet Member
2016 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Houston
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm
I hope folks know that the cells used in EVs are subject to thermal runaway . . .
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Yep. That is why I have been holding off until I could do an undercarriage application in a sealed compartment. The energy density and light weight are just too appealing for a class B application to ignore. The Volta solution seems to be the best current option for the use of EV (Cobalt) chemistry all contained in a rigid structure with thermal and cell management.
It will be a real break-through when the Li-S chemistry makes it into scaled production. Higher energy density and much safer.
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01-04-2019, 11:00 AM
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#30
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Rivet Master
2024 Interstate 19
Fulton
, Maryland
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,879
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcrider
Yep. That is why I have been holding off until I could do an undercarriage application in a sealed compartment. The energy density and light weight are just too appealing for a class B application to ignore. The Volta solution seems to be the best current option for the use of EV (Cobalt) chemistry all contained in a rigid structure with thermal and cell management.
It will be a real break-through when the Li-S chemistry makes it into scaled production. Higher energy density and much safer.
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MCRIDER - agree the Volta solution looks appealing. Its on my list as possible option for my next B-van. The cells in a Tesla pack are especially dangerous without a good thermal management system to keep them safe.
My new Chevy Bolt EV has a battery pack that is a bit safer than the chemistry in the Tesla. But it still has an elaborate liquid thermal management system to keep the pack cool or warm as needed.
__________________
- - Mike
--------------------------
2024 Airstream Interstate 19e AWD
Previous: 2013 Airstream Interstate 3500 Ext Lounge
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01-04-2019, 02:13 PM
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#31
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Rivet Master
2018 Interstate Lounge Ext
LV
, Nevada
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 2,580
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Kinda hoping the Winnebago Volta would be ready for upcoming rv show in Quartzsite, AZ. Maybe I being too optimistic. But I still plan attend a few days and check things out.
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01-04-2019, 03:08 PM
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#32
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4 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Fort Davis
, Texas
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex AVI
Kinda hoping the Winnebago Volta would be ready for upcoming rv show in Quartzsite, AZ. Maybe I being too optimistic. But I still plan attend a few days and check things out.
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Hi Alex,
Interesting to see that Winnebago/Volta is using the same NMC (LiNiMnCoO2) chemistry as the Victron HE batteries I used in my system and going to a 48V battery voltage, like I did.
What I want to see are "flat" (4" high) NMC batteries in 2'x4' or 2'x8' modules. That way they can be mounted in the frame, with proper protection.
Looks like the next 2-3 years are going to be dynamic for electrical systems in the RV industry.
Pat
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01-04-2019, 11:25 PM
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#33
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Rivet Master
2018 Interstate Lounge Ext
LV
, Nevada
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 2,580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdavitt
Hi Alex,
Interesting to see that Winnebago/Volta is using the same NMC (LiNiMnCoO2) chemistry as the Victron HE batteries I used in my system and going to a 48V battery voltage, like I did.
What I want to see are "flat" (4" high) NMC batteries in 2'x4' or 2'x8' modules. That way they can be mounted in the frame, with proper protection.
Looks like the next 2-3 years are going to be dynamic for electrical systems in the RV industry.
Pat
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PAT - HI. Have not heard from you in awhile The Powerwall 3 fits closely to your dimensions (45″ x 30″ x 6″) but last I read, their initial offering will still be Li-Ion 14kwh for that footprint. I am focusing on Tesla because my first want for that pricepoint is for my stick house. And my rationale is the rv solutions can/will only follow once the residential solutions are perfected/optimized/standardized. With over +300 days of sunshine in Vegas, it is a logical next step for my house as prices reach affordable levels. I agree, interesting energy products should keep us 'humming' (no pun intended) many years to come
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01-08-2019, 12:36 PM
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#34
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4 Rivet Member
2017 22' Sport
North Bay
, California
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex AVI
I am focusing on Tesla because my first want for that pricepoint is for my stick house. And my rationale is the rv solutions can/will only follow once the residential solutions are perfected/optimized/standardized. With over +300 days of sunshine in Vegas, it is a logical next step for my house as prices reach affordable levels. I agree, interesting energy products should keep us 'humming' (no pun intended) many years to come
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I have two Powerwall 2s in my house; I was one of the first to have the second generation Powerwalls installed. They've been great for both backup and time of use load shifting. The latter has really paid off in spite of the charging and storage losses.
The Powerwall units and the Tesla vehicle packs are a more traditional lithium ion chemistry, and they are subject to thermal runaway, but fires are rare despite what has been publicized. If you look at fires on a per vehicle mile basis, you'll find that ICE cars are more likely to go up in flames. Tesla has a pretty solid thermal management system for the packs.
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01-08-2019, 03:19 PM
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#35
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4 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Fort Davis
, Texas
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex AVI
PAT - HI. Have not heard from you in awhile The Powerwall 3 fits closely to your dimensions (45″ x 30″ x 6″) but last I read, their initial offering will still be Li-Ion 14kwh for that footprint. I am focusing on Tesla because my first want for that pricepoint is for my stick house. And my rationale is the rv solutions can/will only follow once the residential solutions are perfected/optimized/standardized. With over +300 days of sunshine in Vegas, it is a logical next step for my house as prices reach affordable levels. I agree, interesting energy products should keep us 'humming' (no pun intended) many years to come
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Alex,
I looked at the Powerwall and decided, as you did, that it's not a RV use product; yet. Best I can tell it is designed for grid tied or grid assist use only. The giveaway was the requirement for PV inverters for the solar panels. I did note on Tesla's web site that an off grid version of the Powerwall is "Coming Soon". If it's designed for off grid use, a DC solar charge controller will probably be added to the package. (That's just a guess.)
No telling what Musk is going to come up with next. Building a reusable, 1st stage booster rocket that will return to earth an land on its butt sold me on the guy. NASA would have never had the balls to try that.
Pat
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01-08-2019, 05:08 PM
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#36
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Rivet Master
2018 Interstate Lounge Ext
LV
, Nevada
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 2,580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdavitt
Alex,
I looked at the Powerwall and decided, as you did, that it's not a RV use product; yet. Best I can tell it is designed for grid tied or grid assist use only. The giveaway was the requirement for PV inverters for the solar panels. I did note on Tesla's web site that an off grid version of the Powerwall is "Coming Soon". If it's designed for off grid use, a DC solar charge controller will probably be added to the package. (That's just a guess.)
No telling what Musk is going to come up with next. Building a reusable, 1st stage booster rocket that will return to earth an land on its butt sold me on the guy. NASA would have never had the balls to try that.
Pat
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PAT - would that be the version they are testing all over Aussieland on a Tiny House being towed by a Tesla X ? That why I think they up to something really good for us rv'ers. Yep, MUSK is a pretty gutsy dude. Need risk takers to advance tech
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01-08-2019, 05:26 PM
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#37
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4 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Fort Davis
, Texas
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 257
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Ah, that explains why when I searched for Powerwall 3 all I got was Aussie sites. I'm looking forward to learning more.
Pat
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01-08-2019, 05:27 PM
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#38
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Rivet Master
2018 Interstate Lounge Ext
LV
, Nevada
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 2,580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmman
I have two Powerwall 2s in my house; I was one of the first to have the second generation Powerwalls installed. They've been great for both backup and time of use load shifting. The latter has really paid off in spite of the charging and storage losses.
The Powerwall units and the Tesla vehicle packs are a more traditional lithium ion chemistry, and they are subject to thermal runaway, but fires are rare despite what has been publicized. If you look at fires on a per vehicle mile basis, you'll find that ICE cars are more likely to go up in flames. Tesla has a pretty solid thermal management system for the packs.
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OHMMAN - is that a nickname or your real name? It's pretty cool either way, especially since I am old school electronics nerd going back to discrete soldered wire circuits in high school back in early 70's. Great to hear from Powerwall owners, even though it's not for rv's (yet)
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01-08-2019, 09:40 PM
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#39
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Rivet Master
2018 Interstate Lounge Ext
LV
, Nevada
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 2,580
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PERKS of living in Vegas - get to attend all the conventions - INTERBIKE, Adult Film Oragamy, Consumer Electronic Show, etc, even the AS dealer convention. This from this week CES, it the NOVUS electric carbon fiber motorbike powered by Li-Ion and DD hub motor putting out 200nm torque. That puts it in the 2.0 sec category 0-60 mph. Watch out, Mr. TESLA MUSK Taking some tech queues from bicycles, the 2-wheeler moto-herd is advancing. Ohhh, it only $40,000
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01-08-2019, 11:37 PM
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#40
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International Grey Nomad
1999 35' Cutter Bus Diesel Pusher
Bulahdelah
, NSW Australia
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 232
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Well, maybe not all over Australia because the whole rig would fall to bits on some of our roads.
Interesting that people are installing battery systems in their houses - and they are doing it in Australis too. Interesting because even in Australia with our good sunshine, and fairly good government subsidies and higher electricity prices that make solar panels a very good investment, adding batteries to the system just doesn't add up financially because the payback period is too long to guarantee a positive return on investment
__________________
Tony LEE
International Grey Nomad.
Travel photos at Picasa Album
Trip map at Spotwalla
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