Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-20-2016, 12:22 PM   #1
1 Rivet Member
 
2004 22' Interstate
East Bay , California
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 5
House battery not charging from alternator

re: 2004 interstate sprinter motorhome (freightliner, 2500)

Hi folks, I'm a complete nube, have been lurking for a couple months as I'm the proud new mama of a nearly vintage 2004 freightliner sprinter interstate, twinsie ("Naner"), as of December. Having a real hard time keeping her house battery (located under the passenger lounge) happy. I have read most if not all of the battery threads, my interstate manual, my sprinter manual, and lots of random stuff on the web but can't find a straightforward answer to my very simple question, so now I'm hoping one of you wise folks can help.

Here it goes: should my under-the-lounge coach / house battery (was a brand spankin new AGM two months ago...now hopelessly gone over to the other side, I'm told) be charging off my alternator while driving? Is there a built in BIM / relay / isolator on my particular model? The coach battery is definitely not recharging for me while driving, only house power or the genny work to bring it back up. Took a while to determine that, but I'm sure of it now. Trying to determine if I should be troubleshooting or simply looking to invest in a smart battery relay, something like this one:

Blue Sea Systems SI-ACR Automatc Charging Relay - 12/24V DC / 120A https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000OTIPDQ..._-WjYwbYQSPGBE

The gory details: I'm new to this entire universe, but since taking delivery on "Naner" in December, I've discovered that boondocking / dry camping is my life's passion. I live in the SF Bay Area where the possibilities are endless, but stealth mode is a necessity (aka genny not always the best idea) and outlets not always (ethically) available. Long term I really want to go solar, but that's an entirely different convo....

Anyway, let's just say me and Naner are still getting to know each other, which is a nice way of saying that for one reason or another over the course of several long weekends and due to my complete ignorance I've managed to completely destroy a brand new AGM aux battery by running it down, into the ground, like 5-6 times, to the point where it wouldn't even hold enough charge to let me use the battery disconnect.

Ok so now I know that I absolutely can't let that happen anymore, as yesterday I had it replaced with a brand spankin' new ASM battery--same specs, to the tune of about $200. What I learnt in that process is that maintenance is key if I'm gonna stick with the AGM rather than going deep cycle...again, an entirely separate discussion that I'm not ready to have considering my sunk cost. Btw I also ordered a noco genius (charger / maintainer) to help with battery maintenance, but again that will really only help me between trips. I drive a lot and move a lot (never in one spot two nights), so I'm convinced that leveraging the alternator to keep my ASM topped off will make life sooooo much easier. So should I be looking for a shredded "y" cable or shopping for widgets like the Blue Sea charging relay?

Thank you so much for any insights you have!!!

~Angela
naner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2016, 03:24 PM   #2
Rivet Master
 
InterBlog's Avatar
 
2007 Interstate
League City , Texas
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,139
Hi, Angela, and welcome to Air Forums! And welcome to T1N Sprinter ("Freightliner") ownership in particular!

My response to your question is that I could never get the danged alternator to charge the house battery to my satisfaction. The performance seemed to be variable, and my husband thought that it might have had something to do with the overall demands on the system. Such as, if it was hot outside and I happened to be running the Sprinter air conditioner (not the roof A/C), sometimes the house battery charge would only replenish by 5% per engine-running hour (we installed a TriMetric monitor which is more precise than the Airstream-installed monitoring device, so we could see percentages). And I'm referring to a low-charged battery, not one trickling near the top of charge (which would not be expected to top off as quickly). OK, that's just plain impractical - that means I'd have to drive for 5 hours just to make up the battery depletion associated with one night of light-duty boondocking.

Other times, the "percent full" would seem to rise more rapidly while I was driving. I just did not get any sense of a pattern or what to expect.

We did not pursue the reasons why this variability might be occurring. There are things that can be done to increase alternator charging capacity, but they aren't easy or cheap, and there are other ways to accomplish the same goal. We decided instead to DIY a solar system rather than mess with the alternator. If you've been reading these threads, you might have come across the blog post trilogy I did on this subject, which is here:

http://www.interstateblog.blogspot.c...ch/label/SOLAR
InterBlog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2016, 11:04 PM   #3
Rivet Master
 
Muskogee , Oklahoma
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 749
Angela,

While I am familiar with how the battery works in a 2011 and newer models, I could find very little about how Airstream hooked it all up in 2004. I did find a manual for that year, and no mention is made of charging while driving down the road-they may not have provided for it at all. If you are new to the Interstate, I have to ask what is drawing power while you drive? There should not be much. If there is a battery disconnect, then by all means, disconnect it while driving.

I found one post that said no charging while driving was caused by a bad relay under the seat and the charger never will fully charge the batteries as they expected it to be connected to shore power every night! And in 2004, that may have been true. It's hard to diagnose a 2004 because of the inability to figure out how they wired it and what they used.

You should take it to someone who knows RV's and let them take a look. Good luck.
__________________
2011 Interstate WD/Lounge (since sold).
2020 Leisure Van WonderRTB
gmillerok1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2016, 05:13 AM   #4
Rivet Master
 
Currently Looking...
Mantua , Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,062
Blog Entries: 2
Go to the sprinter forums.
xrvr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2016, 07:09 AM   #5
Rivet Master
 
InterBlog's Avatar
 
2007 Interstate
League City , Texas
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,139
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmillerok1 View Post
.... If there is a battery disconnect, then by all means, disconnect it while driving.
....
If it's set up the way the later T1N Interstates are, the house battery won't charge while driving unless it is on.

Looking on the internet, the 2004 owner's manual (PDF link) is actually more detailed and specific than our 2007 manual, which is rather generic. I downloaded a copy of the 2004 just to have it in case there is info in there that we could use. Not to say the two years would be identical, but it could be useful.

There may be parasitic loads on the system and there have been threads about that topic, but I suspect the OP's core issue is that the alternator was simply never designed to do the recharging job under most boondocking conditions. Constant long-distance travel conditions, maybe. But not local travel with boondocking (e.g., arrive at a specific national park or forest and move from place to place over successive days). Until our solar was installed, I simply defaulted to this procedure:

-- boondock for a night
-- hookup for a night
-- boondock for a night
-- hookup for a night
-- rinse, repeat

My husband thought that perhaps we could squeeze two successive boondocking nights out of the battery, but we never tried it. In my experience, 24 hours off-grid resulted in a 25% house battery drop. So, if it followed suit, the second 24 hours off grid would produce another 25% drop, but that's putting the battery right at the cusp of permanent damage, so why risk it?

And what if, for whatever reason of nonlinear draw, it was more than 25% on the second night? Then it would certainly be damaged. Not worth the experiment.

Bottom line is that the T1N Interstates were no more designed for perpetual boondocking than the newer Interstates are. The situation requires either constant infusions of shore power or the running of the generator or long-distance engine running or solar. Those are the four options that we have to date (excluding lithium from the discussion for the time being).
InterBlog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2016, 11:30 AM   #6
3 Rivet Member
 
2006 22' Interstate
Sebastopol , California
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 210
I have a 2006 T1N with a single 12 volt marine/rv wet cell battery and a 100 watt Renology solar suitcase. We have lasted 4 nights boondocing with this setup. I have changed out all our bulbs to led's and I reposition the solar suitcase for optimal performance. My house battery definitely charges from the alternator while under way but I like a good 120v hook up for a full charge at least every 5th day. Interestingly my house battery charges from the alternator even when the house battery switch is in the off position. From the comments i read here and elsewhere I'm beginning to believe no two Airstream Interstates are wired the same even when they are the same vintage
Sebtown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2016, 07:09 AM   #7
Rivet Master
 
InterBlog's Avatar
 
2007 Interstate
League City , Texas
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebtown View Post
... From the comments i read here and elsewhere I'm beginning to believe no two Airstream Interstates are wired the same even when they are the same vintage
If you take the sum total of what's been said on multiple threads by multiple users, the preponderance of statements seems to support that suggestion. If we had access to more schematic information, we would be in a better position to confirm or deny the existence of variability.
InterBlog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2016, 07:23 AM   #8
Figment of My Imagination
 
Protagonist's Avatar
 
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over , More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,868
Quote:
Originally Posted by InterBlog View Post
If you take the sum total of what's been said on multiple threads by multiple users, the preponderance of statements seems to support that suggestion. If we had access to more schematic information, we would be in a better position to confirm or deny the existence of variability.
That presumes Interstates are wired according to a schematic…
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
Protagonist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2016, 01:54 PM   #9
Rivet Master
 
Boxster1971's Avatar

 
2024 Interstate 19
Fulton , Maryland
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,867
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protagonist View Post
That presumes Interstates are wired according to a schematic…

How true! I got schematics for mine and it's not wired exactly the same as the schematic drawing. Mostly accurate, but a few minor differences.


- - Mike
2013 Interstate Lounge EXT on 2012 Sprinter
__________________
- - Mike
--------------------------
2024 Airstream Interstate 19e AWD
Previous: 2013 Airstream Interstate 3500 Ext Lounge
Boxster1971 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2016, 03:09 PM   #10
Rivet Master
 
InterBlog's Avatar
 
2007 Interstate
League City , Texas
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxster1971 View Post
How true! I got schematics for mine and it's not wired exactly the same as the schematic drawing. Mostly accurate, but a few minor differences.

- - Mike
2013 Interstate Lounge EXT on 2012 Sprinter
Can you remind us again how you managed that feat? Husband and I could really use the 2007 version right about now. I've been thinking about opening a dialog with Jackson Center. The T1N's are now 10+ years old... not exactly cutting edge competitive advantage they are protecting by withholding the drawings. I remember this general topic being discussed on a thread about a year ago but I do not recall the bottom line(s).
InterBlog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2016, 05:21 PM   #11
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples , Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebtown View Post
I have a 2006 T1N with a single 12 volt marine/rv wet cell battery and a 100 watt Renology solar suitcase. We have lasted 4 nights boondocing with this setup. I have changed out all our bulbs to led's and I reposition the solar suitcase for optimal performance. My house battery definitely charges from the alternator while under way but I like a good 120v hook up for a full charge at least every 5th day. Interestingly my house battery charges from the alternator even when the house battery switch is in the off position. From the comments i read here and elsewhere I'm beginning to believe no two Airstream Interstates are wired the same even when they are the same vintage
Don't the T1Ns usually have their battery located under the passenger seat? At least all of the older Interstates that I have worked on have had them in that location.

If so, that IS NO PLACE for a wet cell battery that will regularly out-gas as it charges, unless you have made some other arrangement for the dispersion of the gassing.

Just a thought………..
__________________
lewster
Solar Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
Victron Solar Components and Inverters, Zamp Solar Panels, LiFeBlue and Battle Born Lithium Batteries, Lifeline AGM Batteries
lewster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2016, 03:42 AM   #12
Rivet Master
 
InterBlog's Avatar
 
2007 Interstate
League City , Texas
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,139
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster View Post
Don't the T1Ns usually have their battery located under the passenger seat? At least all of the older Interstates that I have worked on have had them in that location.

If so, that IS NO PLACE for a wet cell battery that will regularly out-gas as it charges, unless you have made some other arrangement for the dispersion of the gassing.

Just a thought………..
It depends on the layout but many of them do, yes. Ours does. I think the ones that have the spare tire mounted on the rear door do not, but they seem to have been produced in low numbers. In those versions, it's under the rear couch.
InterBlog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2016, 05:19 PM   #13
Rivet Master
 
2006 22' Interstate
League City , Texas
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 698
I'm still learning about our electrical system but most alternators put out 13.8-14.0 volts which is above the float maintenance voltage of 13.3 but well below Lifeline's recommended absorption charge voltage of 14.4. This means that charging with the alternator should be much slower than when charging off a converter/inverter.

So after I recalibrated those expectations, I learned that the battery isolation relay that separates the house battery from the chassis battery only connects the two batteries when the chassis battery is fully charged (above a preset voltage) so there will be times when the engine is on but the house battery is not connected. Additionally, if the house battery is really depleted or there is already a heavy draw on the alternator, charging the house battery could drag the chassis voltage below the preset voltage cutoff in the battery isolator, causing the house battery to disconnect.

Many of the T1N Sprinters have the battery isolator installed under the driver's seat as a Mercedes option and wiring diagrams can be found on Sprinter Forums.
LB_3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2016, 06:37 PM   #14
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples , Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by LB_3 View Post
I'm still learning about our electrical system but most alternators put out 13.8-14.0 volts which is above the float maintenance voltage of 13.3 but well below Lifeline's recommended absorption charge voltage of 14.4. This means that charging with the alternator should be much slower than when charging off a converter/inverter.

So after I recalibrated those expectations, I learned that the battery isolation relay that separates the house battery from the chassis battery only connects the two batteries when the chassis battery is fully charged (above a preset voltage) so there will be times when the engine is on but the house battery is not connected. Additionally, if the house battery is really depleted or there is already a heavy draw on the alternator, charging the house battery could drag the chassis voltage below the preset voltage cutoff in the battery isolator, causing the house battery to disconnect.

Many of the T1N Sprinters have the battery isolator installed under the driver's seat as a Mercedes option and wiring diagrams can be found on Sprinter Forums.
Your Sprinter alternator should have a stable output of 14.2VDC. My old T1N had this exact output, as does my newer 2011.

The older style diode-based battery isolators have a significant amount of voltage drop which might be the cause of the lower voltage that you are seeing. If so, it would be a good idea to upgrade to the newer battery isolation modules from companies like Precision Circuits or Blue Sea Systems which show little to no voltage drop across their latching solenoids.
__________________
lewster
Solar Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
Victron Solar Components and Inverters, Zamp Solar Panels, LiFeBlue and Battle Born Lithium Batteries, Lifeline AGM Batteries
lewster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 01:03 PM   #15
Rivet Master
 
Boxster1971's Avatar

 
2024 Interstate 19
Fulton , Maryland
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,867
House battery not charging from alternator

Quote:
Originally Posted by InterBlog View Post
Can you remind us again how you managed that feat? Husband and I could really use the 2007 version right about now. I've been thinking about opening a dialog with Jackson Center. The T1N's are now 10+ years old... not exactly cutting edge competitive advantage they are protecting by withholding the drawings. I remember this general topic being discussed on a thread about a year ago but I do not recall the bottom line(s).

I emailed Airstream and requested the wiring schematics for my model. They would not send me all of them because they said the main 12v DC schematic was for factory use only. I did get the main AC drawing and about six diagrams of the various 12v component wiring layouts.


- - Mike
2013 Lounge EXT on 2012 Sprinter
__________________
- - Mike
--------------------------
2024 Airstream Interstate 19e AWD
Previous: 2013 Airstream Interstate 3500 Ext Lounge
Boxster1971 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 01:18 PM   #16
Rivet Master
 
toskeysam's Avatar

 
2013 Interstate Coach
Townsend , Tennessee
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 749
Mike,
PM me bout the 12V Main Schematic. I also have the 2013 on a 2012....
__________________
FMCA # 436814
toskeysam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2017, 09:21 AM   #17
1 Rivet Member
 
2012 Interstate Coach
mooresville , North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 10
House battery problems

I just purchased a 2012 Interstate. Two new house batteries were installed three days ago. They will not hold a charge. Cannot start the on board generator. There is a solar charge system but the monitor reads that no solar charging is taking place.
I would really appreciate some advice
on how to resolve this problem.
DogMobile1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2017, 09:39 AM   #18
Rivet Master
 
Boxster1971's Avatar

 
2024 Interstate 19
Fulton , Maryland
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,867
Quote:
Originally Posted by DogMobile1 View Post
I just purchased a 2012 Interstate. Two new house batteries were installed three days ago. They will not hold a charge. Cannot start the on board generator. There is a solar charge system but the monitor reads that no solar charging is taking place.

I would really appreciate some advice

on how to resolve this problem.

Have you kept your Interstate plugged in for the past three days to make sure those new batteries get fully charged?

IMHO - the solar charging system is not very useful on the 2013 Interstate. That's why I changed mine. Plugging into shore power is the only reliable way to get your batteries fully charged.
__________________
- - Mike
--------------------------
2024 Airstream Interstate 19e AWD
Previous: 2013 Airstream Interstate 3500 Ext Lounge
Boxster1971 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2017, 05:41 AM   #19
1 Rivet Member
 
2012 Interstate Coach
mooresville , North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 10
House batteries not charged

Thanks. I have kept the outside power plugged in for 24 hours and it charged the batteries. Is there any problem keeping outside power plugged in for an extended number of days? Does the engine alternator also charge the house batteries?

Thanks for your help.
DogMobile1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2017, 10:29 AM   #20
Rivet Master
 
Boxster1971's Avatar

 
2024 Interstate 19
Fulton , Maryland
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,867
Quote:
Originally Posted by DogMobile1 View Post
Thanks. I have kept the outside power plugged in for 24 hours and it charged the batteries. Is there any problem keeping outside power plugged in for an extended number of days? Does the engine alternator also charge the house batteries?



Thanks for your help.

I think your 2012 Interstate has the Tripp-Lite inverter/charger. That unit is less desirable since it will overcharge your batteries if left plugged in constantly. But you should be able to leave it plugged in for several days without a problem.

Airstream switched to the better Magnum inverter/charger in the 2013 models.

Yes - the engine alternator will charge you house batteries.
__________________
- - Mike
--------------------------
2024 Airstream Interstate 19e AWD
Previous: 2013 Airstream Interstate 3500 Ext Lounge
Boxster1971 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What size wires for running lights and separate alternator to house battery DavidF Lights - Interior & Exterior 1 12-26-2015 07:25 PM
Charging House Batteries from alternator ofdcb Sprinter and B-van Forum 11 12-13-2015 09:19 AM
Second Alternator for Charging House Batteries migriffin Sprinter and B-van Forum 24 06-08-2015 01:04 PM
Alternator Charging House Batteries jerhofer Sprinter and B-van Forum 15 05-03-2015 09:10 PM
Chassis/House Battery Charging 4 Motorhomes Jim Tyrney Airstream Motorhome Forums 41 03-11-2011 06:50 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.