House batteries/generator issue

[BrianKrueger]

Yes, another thread on the house batteries/generator, I'm sad to say. I have read most of the other threads and I'm fearful that I will be counted among those who end up having to spend $800 or so to replace our house batteries.

We have a 2014.5 AI, took delivery in late March of this year.

I scheduled a service/warranty call with RBM of Alpharetta for Tuesday, 9/15. I sent the info to the dealer in advance along with pics (we have a variety of small warranty service repairs, nothing major other than the batteries/generator issue). The Service Advisor (Victoria Cunningham) called me along with someone in service (not sure of his name, but it wasn't Randy Bacon, whom I have spoken with prior). He mentioned that Airstream is no longer replacing the house batteries that are "swollen" from "misuse" by the owner.

I have been trying to get the generator started and have only had it started successfully two times--once at delivery in March and once in August after being on shore power for 18 hours. I have not been able to start the generator on its own without shore power (which pretty much negates the point of having a generator). My batteries show 100% when I try starting, but after a few cranks (and eventual fail) in starting, they show 20%, then 0%. A couple days later they appear to be topped off back to 100%. We store the AI in an open lot with plenty of direct sunlight, but no power available.

I know that the recommendation is now to put the AI on shore power for 24-48 hours each month, but that's simply not practical for us (and apparently many others, from reading the forum threads). We live in a condo (half the year), do not have 30 amp service and, even if we did, the homeowners association prohibits overnight parking. I had been dutifully disconnecting all of what I thought (I know better now) were all parasitic draws and the battery always topped up to 100% on solar when I checked on the RV, so I thought we were fine.

So since we're now facing an unforeseen potential $800 expense, I pulled both batteries from the RV and brought them to our condo. On a side note, if anyone needs help on where they are located or how to pull them, I would be happy to assist. It was fairly straightforward with the right tools and some patience. And yes, there were only 4 screws in the 6 screw slots (the four corners had screws, the other 2 did not), per the inquiry in a different thread. I bought a couple more screws at the hardware store to complete what Airstream apparently did not feel is necessary (but then why have the screw holes in the first place?).

I put one battery onto a multi-stage trickle charger (which goes into maintenance mode when the full charge is reached). I am hoping that this will somehow give the batteries a full charge which they can hold. No, I don't really think it will work, but I'm willing to try just about anything to avoid paying $800 for batteries I have never used. In looking at the batteries, they are slightly bowed out on the sides. Is this what the service tech was referring to as being "swelled" (which is not covered by the warranty)?

Any suggestions on what I might do over the next 8-9 days before bringing the AI in for service? And how to handle the service call with RBM and/or Airstream?

Frankly, I would not have bought the AI knowing what I have learned about the house batteries on this forum. I wish I had found this forum before buying the unit. I was told by the dealer that the solar would top off the house batteries as long as we have sun. We've had plenty of sun. And the batteries always appear to be topped up when I went to visit the RV. It is only in trying to crank the generator that there appears to be any problem.

Any help or advice to a newbie (both to RVing and to Airstream) would be appreciated.

P.S. I was going to attach two pics of the batteries and charger, but it appears that the forum only allows the ability to insert images from a URL? But it does allow attaching a video, so I took a quick video of the setup I have for charging the ATMs in our garage. I noticed others posting pics within their posts, if there is a way to do this without uploading them to another website (to generate the URL to link to them), I would appreciate the forum advice as well. But the video actually gives a better 3D perspective on what appears to be the "swell" of the batteries.

[Protagonist]

Contact your nearest Lifeline battery retailer. Airstream may not warrant the batteries, but Lifeline almost certainly will, considering how new they are.

Of course that completely ignores the issue of exactly how you could "misuse" the batteries to cause them to bulge on the sides. Perhaps you could get your Airstream service adviser to explain that one to you, so you could tell us? You could always tell her you want to know so that "it doesn't happen again."

[UKDUDE]

The damage to the batteries may have already occurred at the dealer's lot; some dealers are notoriously bad at ensuring the batteries are correctly maintained, particularly if it's been sitting on their lot for several weeks.


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

[Lily&Me]

I always start my engine to start the generator.....just seems to give the batteries a boost for this big job.

This starts the generator every time. Have you tried this?

Driving your Interstate should also bring your batteries to full charge....although I don't know the time frame, this is what I have been told here.



Maggie

[73shark]

Originally Posted by BrianKrueger

P.S. I was going to attach two pics of the batteries and charger, but it appears that the forum only allows the ability to insert images from a URL?

To attach pics, go to "Advanced" and then "Manage Attachments" That will pop up a window that allows you to browse your computer for pic files and upload them. You can also upload a video or file from a URL here.

[BrianKrueger]

Originally Posted by Lily&Me

I always start my engine to start the generator.....just seems to give the batteries a boost for this big job.

This starts the generator every time. Have you tried this?

Driving your Interstate should also bring your batteries to full charge....although I don't know the time frame, this is what I have been told here.

Maggie

Hi Maggie,

Thanks for the feedback.

Yes, I do have the engine running each time I try the generator startup. The one time I was successful in starting the generator was at a campground after 18 hours on shore power and with the engine running. Yet off shore power with the engine running, no luck so far.

I have not tried to do the battery boost from the cockpit, my arms are not long enough to do both. I guess I could ask my wife to assist when she is with me next, but most of the times I've tried doing the startup, it is just me and the RV in a big open lot.

Also, I tried to start the generator after driving the RV for 2 hours (and it showed 100% charge) when we arrived at a campground, wouldn't start. I also tried it after 12 hours at the campground, came close, but wouldn't start. It was only after 18 hours of shore power and the engine running that I was able to start the generator. Not a good combination for wanting the generator for when the generator is actually needed.

Brian

[BrianKrueger]

Originally Posted by 73shark

To attach pics, go to "Advanced" and then "Manage Attachments" That will pop up a window that allows you to browse your computer for pic files and upload them. You can also upload a video or file from a URL here.

Thanks for the info, I do see that link now. I tried several times to upload two different pics, both from my SD card and direct from my laptop hard drive, both times got a message "Upload of file failed." Tried to do just one at a time, same error. Tried compressing the files from 3MB to 250K, same error. I even tried compressing down to 25K, same error.

Both are basic .JPG files, nothing special or unusual. I was, ironically, able to upload the 80MB video in the original post with no issues.

I'm a tech guy and normally I'd be able to solve this, but for some reason cannot find a workaround that will work.

[jerhofer]

The easiest way is to upload the photos to a site like Photobucket and then insert the IMG file. I actually prefer this arrangement as you can insert the photo where it fits with the text.

[Lily&Me]

Originally Posted by BrianKrueger

Hi Maggie,

Thanks for the feedback.

Yes, I do have the engine running each time I try the generator startup. The one time I was successful in starting the generator was at a campground after 18 hours on shore power and with the engine running. Yet off shore power with the engine running, no luck so far.

I have not tried to do the battery boost from the cockpit, my arms are not long enough to do both. I guess I could ask my wife to assist when she is with me next, but most of the times I've tried doing the startup, it is just me and the RV in a big open lot.

Also, I tried to start the generator after driving the RV for 2 hours (and it showed 100% charge) when we arrived at a campground, wouldn't start. I also tried it after 12 hours at the campground, came close, but wouldn't start. It was only after 18 hours of shore power and the engine running that I was able to start the generator. Not a good combination for wanting the generator for when the generator is actually needed.

Brian

The problem may well be your generator, rather than your battery, for whatever reason....not getting an adequate fuel supply???

The only chronic problem we had with ours was due to wasps building a nest in the intake line...if that is the correct term, and it may not be.

Protag's suggestion about how to address the issue with your dealer sounds good.

Everything is under warranty for you. It needs to be resolved without cost to you.

Keep us posted, and don't give up.


Maggie

[Jeff64]

Have you tried to do an equalization charge to your batteries? I'm no battery expert but I would suspect they've been in a discharged state often enough cause damage. By performing an equalization charge it supposed to remove sulfation from the internal plates. The magnum charger in your AI should (may) have the equalization option. You will need to read the proper steps from the owners manual (Magnum) for the procedure. It may be worth a try considering the expense of these batteries. I'm attaching a document from a Lifeline battery dealer regarding care of the Lifeline batteries.

Lifeline and Sun Xtender Battery Care

Here are a few abbreviated tips to help you get a long life from your Lifeline batteries. We strongly

recommend reading the Technical Manual for full information, in order to maximize battery life.

Your batteries need to be partially discharged and re

‐charged several times in order to reach full

capacity. There is no special procedure, just use them normally. These batteries do not need to be

deeply cycled in order to stay healthy. In fact, fully discharging them is specifically not recommended.

‐

After you have discharged your batteries, be sure you fully recharge them. Never let your batteries rest in

a discharged state as they will begin to sulfate.

You should always fully charge your batteries prior to

storing them. We recommend putting a maintenance charge on your batteries every 6

‐8 weeks for best

results.

‐

Your battery is fully charged when it will only accept 0.5amp/100 amp hr into them at the proper

charging voltage. Example: A 12v, 400 amp hour battery bank is fully charged only when it draws 2 amps

while charging at 14.2v. Terminating charging before this point, will result in undercharging.

‐

Your 12v battery bank is fully discharged when it reaches 10.5v. Discharging to this point and lower causes

damage. Set your automatic generator start or low voltage disconnect well above this point.

‐

Chronically failing to complete charge cycles will gradually cause sulfation and thereby damage the

batteries. In fact, undercharging is the number one cause that we see for reduced battery life.

Make sure that all battery charging devices are adjusted to the required charging values. 12 volt batteries

must be charged at 14.2v to 14.4v, and a “Float” charge setting between at 13.2v to 13.4v. These

numbers are critical. Your charging system must incorporate temperature compensation!

Trouble Shooting

• Checking the open circuit voltage should always be step one. The best time to take a voltage

reading is 12

‐24 hours after any charging or discharging of the battery.

• A new, fully charged 12v battery will have a resting voltage of 12.9v to 13.0v. As the battery

ages, 12.8v “or higher” can be considered fully charged.

• If the battery won’t return to a full charge through normal charging procedures, it may be

sulfated and will require equalizing or a conditioning charge. (See technical manual)

If the battery displays a high voltage, but significantly drops under a load, it is likely that is has been

overcharged. A capacity test can determine how severe the damage may be.

Please note that many battery chargers need to see a nominal voltage of 8.5v (on a 12v battery) before

functioning properly. If your batteries have been discharged below this level, you may need to utilize a

manual charger that can function, no matter how low the battery voltage.

[ben322]

Just FYI, you don't need 30A power to charge the batteries. If you can manage a 15A extension cord with a 30A/15A adapter, that's all the Magnum needs to charge the batteries.

[InterBlog]

Welcome to the forum, and welcome to the Bulging Battery Club. I've attached a photo of our next-to-last Lifeline (we have an older Interstate, so there is only one coach battery). BTW, the forum seems to have good days and bad days re: photo posting. Even though it should, sometimes it will and sometimes it won't, in my experience.

FWIW, my husband was told by the person who sold us the new Lifeline that, once it gets to looking like this one in the photo does, there's nothing that can be done but replace it. We live in a coastal area so there's a lot of marine experience claimed where batteries are concerned.

If you have read the lithium battery thread, you probably heard me extolling the virtues of garaging with power hook-up. I think you said that you don't have that option, but for anyone else who is weighing the pros and cons, it solved our battery issues for us (knock wood). It's just a regular power supply that is provided in it, not a 30 amp connection, but it still seems to do right by the battery.

[BrianKrueger]

Originally Posted by ben322

Just FYI, you don't need 30A power to charge the batteries. If you can manage a 15A extension cord with a 30A/15A adapter, that's all the Magnum needs to charge the batteries.

OK, so showing my ignorance of electricity (especially volts vs. amps), is plugging into a normal 110V outlet 15A? If yes then I guess all I would need is a 15A adapter and make sure my extension cord is rated to 15A (not sure how I would do that, it does have three prongs, but I don't have any documentation on it). All of our breakers are rated 15A with some combined for things like the dryer to 30A. So I guess technically I do have a 30A connect behind my dryer, although that doesn't really help me, since I can't park our RV in front of our condo (nor would our 30A cord reach upstairs to the laundry room).

The current storage lot where we are parking does not have any electrical anywhere in the lot. So I would have to find a storage lot that has some type of electrical supply, not sure if that is possible or not.

In the meantime, I pulled both batteries from the RV, they are presently in my garage with one of them on a multi-stage trickle charger since yesterday. It is still showing as charging, so not yet to 80%. The charger will show status at 80% and then 100%. It usually takes 2-3 days to fully charge our car battery from depleted to 100% using this charger, so not sure if it will be the same/similar with these batteries.

Brian

[BrianKrueger]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

Welcome to the forum, and welcome to the Bulging Battery Club. I've attached a photo of our next-to-last Lifeline (we have an older Interstate, so there is only one coach battery). BTW, the forum seems to have good days and bad days re: photo posting. Even though it should, sometimes it will and sometimes it won't, in my experience.

FWIW, my husband was told by the person who sold us the new Lifeline that, once it gets to looking like this one in the photo does, there's nothing that can be done but replace it. We live in a coastal area so there's a lot of marine experience claimed where batteries are concerned.

If you have read the lithium battery thread, you probably heard me extolling the virtues of garaging with power hook-up. I think you said that you don't have that option, but for anyone else who is weighing the pros and cons, it solved our battery issues for us (knock wood). It's just a regular power supply that is provided in it, not a 30 amp connection, but it still seems to do right by the battery.

Yep, that looks suspiciously close to what we have. Maybe not quite that much bulging, but there is a definite bulge on the side of the battery.

Sigh. I probably wouldn't have bought this rig if I had known that it was going to be such a hassle keeping it ready and available. Or is this just the world of RVing? We owned a boat for a few years, had some typical boat issues, but never had this type of issue in storing it...

Brian

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by BrianKrueger

Sigh. I probably wouldn't have bought this rig if I had known that it was going to be such a hassle keeping it ready and available. Or is this just the world of RVing?

It gets easier once you get on top of the learning curve. And every problem you have now is a campfire tale later…

When I first bought my Interstate, the Airstream Interstate community on AirForums was a lot less active or numerous than it is today, and I spent literally months learning the ins and outs of storing and using mine, the hard way. Now the things that I used to pull my hair out over— as you can see from my Forums avatar at left, there were many— are mostly routine.

[73shark]

FWIW, your dryer uses 220 volts AC so you do not want to connect to it obviously. Most extension cords will not carry 15 amps. However you are not going to be drawing 15 amps with just charging your battery.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by BrianKrueger

OK, so showing my ignorance of electricity (especially volts vs. amps), is plugging into a normal 110V outlet 15A? If yes then I guess all I would need is a 15A adapter and make sure my extension cord is rated to 15A (not sure how I would do that, it does have three prongs, but I don't have any documentation on it).

Rule of thumb, when using an extension cord on shore power, make sure the extension cord is as large, or one wire gauge larger, than your main shore power cord. You do not want to add resistance in your cord by using too small a cord, lest it overheat and melt the insulation. You can get a 30-amp extension cord at places like Cabela's or Camping World, and it doesn't hurt to have one anyway. I've stayed at older State Parks where the service pedestal was too far away from the campsite for a single cord to reach, and on the wrong side as well.

All of our breakers are rated 15A with some combined for things like the dryer to 30A. So I guess technically I do have a 30A connect behind my dryer

What 73shark said. 30-amp 220vAC is not the same as 30-amp 120vAC, even if the plugs do look similar.

[ben322]

For OP's application of battery maintenance, any standard house plug along with a 14/2 or 12/2 regular extension cord will work. Connecting to a true 30A three -prong twist lock would only be necessary if you're running everything like the AC.

So yes, the adapter and a regular extension cord is all you need to maintain the batteries. I've upgraded our inverter to the Magnum along with 2-6CT Lifelines and leave it plugged in with the adapter and extension cord.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by BrianKrueger

Yep, that looks suspiciously close to what we have. Maybe not quite that much bulging, but there is a definite bulge on the side of the battery.

Sigh. I probably wouldn't have bought this rig if I had known that it was going to be such a hassle keeping it ready and available. Or is this just the world of RVing? We owned a boat for a few years, had some typical boat issues, but never had this type of issue in storing it...

Brian

Two comments, both of them intended to provide some perspective.

To some degree, this is indeed the world of RVing. They tend to be complicated, twitchy little buggers even at the best of times. When my husband and I bought our Interstate, the first thing my snickering father did was lob his favorite RV joke at us: "My buddy told me that he had exactly two happy days with his RV - the day he bought it, and the day he sold it!"


As to how the Interstate stacks up problem-wise compared to other choices, many people believe that it has certain quality control issues unique to Airstream. The battery issue is, of course, a known problem. When I relayed to my husband your statement that Airstream will no longer warranty bulging batteries, he glared at me and retorted, "Well, if they are not prepared to stand by their builds, then they need to make public their entire electrical schematic so that the rest of us can finally figure out what the F is going on!" Because what's happening in cases such as yours just doesn't seem right.

But with or without bulging batteries, RVs are very much subject to the "use it or lose it" principle. So are trailers, so are stick houses. Let a stick house sit empty and unused for any amount of time, and you'll start to see unexpected issues cropping up.

With that inescapable reality in mind, have you evaluated the potential to incorporate your Interstate into your professional life? That way it would be subjected to more "use it" and you'd be staying more on top of its condition without expending much incremental effort. You appear to have used realname in your profile, so I can see what you do for a living. You already have some impressive presence in some rrrreally cool market segments - if I were in your shoes, I'd write another book and take the Interstate on the resulting tour!!


I've done something similar myself. I've run my own consultancy for many years, but it was only when I slapped a couple of magnetic business signs on the side of my Interstate that I began to perceive the potential for taking my professional life to another level. That was NOT my original plan - my husband and I bought the Interstate assuming it would be for recreation, duh. But the Interstate makes an *exquisite* mobile office. I can park it on client sites without consuming half their parking lot. I can use it to combine out-of-town meetings with mini-explorations of nearby areas that I would not otherwise have the time or the logistical resources to see. I have a state-issued professional license with mandatory continuing education requirements, and rather than traveling to an approved seminar and staying in the Same Boring Hotel I've been looking at for the past 20 years, I can instead take the Interstate and turn the trip into a discovery adventure. Here is an example of that last possibility:
THE INTERSTATE BLOG: PECAN GROVE RV PARK AND URBAN HIKING IN AUSTIN, TEXAS

It's killing two birds with one stone. As I'm doing these types of things, which are breathing new life and a new facet of enjoyment into my perception of my own career, my Interstate is being properly exercised and monitored for incipient issues. I'm not sure if your livelihood would offer similar potential, but maybe it's something to consider. AFTER you get your battery issue resolved, that is.

[BrianKrueger]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

Two comments, both of them intended to provide some perspective.

To some degree, this is indeed the world of RVing. They tend to be complicated, twitchy little buggers even at the best of times. When my husband and I bought our Interstate, the first thing my snickering father did was lob his favorite RV joke at us: "My buddy told me that he had exactly two happy days with his RV - the day he bought it, and the day he sold it!"


As to how the Interstate stacks up problem-wise compared to other choices, many people believe that it has certain quality control issues unique to Airstream. The battery issue is, of course, a known problem. When I relayed to my husband your statement that Airstream will no longer warranty bulging batteries, he glared at me and retorted, "Well, if they are not prepared to stand by their builds, then they need to make public their entire electrical schematic so that the rest of us can finally figure out what the F is going on!" Because what's happening in cases such as yours just doesn't seem right.

But with or without bulging batteries, RVs are very much subject to the "use it or lose it" principle. So are trailers, so are stick houses. Let a stick house sit empty and unused for any amount of time, and you'll start to see unexpected issues cropping up.

With that inescapable reality in mind, have you evaluated the potential to incorporate your Interstate into your professional life? That way it would be subjected to more "use it" and you'd be staying more on top of its condition without expending much incremental effort. You appear to have used realname in your profile, so I can see what you do for a living. You already have some impressive presence in some rrrreally cool market segments - if I were in your shoes, I'd write another book and take the Interstate on the resulting tour!!


I've done something similar myself. I've run my own consultancy for many years, but it was only when I slapped a couple of magnetic business signs on the side of my Interstate that I began to perceive the potential for taking my professional life to another level. That was NOT my original plan - my husband and I bought the Interstate assuming it would be for recreation, duh. But the Interstate makes an *exquisite* mobile office. I can park it on client sites without consuming half their parking lot. I can use it to combine out-of-town meetings with mini-explorations of nearby areas that I would not otherwise have the time or the logistical resources to see. I have a state-issued professional license with mandatory continuing education requirements, and rather than traveling to an approved seminar and staying in the Same Boring Hotel I've been looking at for the past 20 years, I can instead take the Interstate and turn the trip into a discovery adventure. Here is an example of that last possibility:
THE INTERSTATE BLOG: PECAN GROVE RV PARK AND URBAN HIKING IN AUSTIN, TEXAS

It's killing two birds with one stone. As I'm doing these types of things, which are breathing new life and a new facet of enjoyment into my perception of my own career, my Interstate is being properly exercised and monitored for incipient issues. I'm not sure if your livelihood would offer similar potential, but maybe it's something to consider. AFTER you get your battery issue resolved, that is.

Hi InterBlog, thanks for the feedback. Funny, I had heard the same context joke about our boat: "The two happiest days in a boat owner's life is the day he buys the boat and the day he sells the boat." We owned the boat for about 3 years, had our share of joys and sorrows during that time and eventually decided to move on. For whatever reason, I thought that owning an RV would be less complex than a boat. I'm so far finding more similarities than dissimilarities. Although I never really had any battery issues with the boat (we could run down the house battery overnight and just charge it again in the morning by running the engine on idle when docked off connections), so this is a new one.

Interesting that you looked me up based on just my name. You do know there are quite a few people with the same name, right? But yes, you've apparently found the me who is me. And I have thought about using the RV as part of my professional life. Unfortunately, the prime time for use would be during the college school year, specifically during the winter months. That doesn't seem very doable with this RV, given that it runs down the house batteries in 4 hours when running the heating pads. Most college campuses would not have hookups. Nor are they setup for dealing with a large vehicle anywhere outside the football stadium tailgater lot. So it would usually mean parking somewhere off campus or at an RV park and then finding a way to campus. Not very doable logistically, at least in most circumstances. So, for now, it will be just recreational.

And I will probably learn a lot along the way (and some things that I never really wanted to learn about), own RV for a few seasons, then sell it and move on with another season of life.

Thanks for the input. I'm still learning...

P.S. I liked your blog article about Austin.