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Old 10-08-2017, 06:02 PM   #1
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high-level question about drivetrain comparison

Hello, I've been lurking on the forum for a while and ready to dig in. I appreciate any comments.

My wife and I have been been researching and investigating several of the late model sprinter class of products and we recently rented a Roadtrek CS-Adventurous for several days. We learned to really like the vehicle.

This post is not about the specifics of that unit but I'd like to get a higher level view of the sprinter class of products-3500 chassis/3 liter turbo/Mercedes(interstate,Roadtrek,Leisure-way,etc) vs. for instance class "A" units.

I just had a visit with a buddy who owns a 40 foot diesel Winebago pusher and at about 30K miles, he trashed the differential which caused problems with the allison transmission and ultimately the Cummins diesel motor. Bottom line, his take was that with his units, these parts were mashed together from several manufacturers so he ended up going to the different service houses for different components. It was a nightmare even after everyone finished up with all the finger pointing!!

I told him I though that one of the beauties of the sprinter class product is that the engine and all drivetrain is a well tested platform. My conclusion was solely based on all the forums I have read about these products and that almost never do I hear anyone talk about engine or drive train problems on a sprinter based product.

I've been known to speculate but in general, am I on the right page with my thinking?? My sense is the sprinter platform is a tried and trued platform that defined itself as a commercial delivery vehicle the made it's way into the motorhome world.

With all this said, I am aware of all the various other subsystems that go into the sprinter platform and the problems that arise out of those but I am really talking just about the drivetrain and power plant at this point and would appreciate any opinions...thoughts??-brian
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Old 10-08-2017, 07:02 PM   #2
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The Mercedes part of our vans are pretty solid. The newer vans have some emissions issues (as do most new diesels) that can put you in limp home mode or give you a remaining starts countdown. These issues are relatively rare and are covered under warranty. Once you’re out of warranty you can have the limp home mode and countdown disabled by reprogramming the ECU.
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Old 10-08-2017, 07:50 PM   #3
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Rv’s in general are an amalgamation of pieces and parts from multiple vendors so the supposition that having an engine and full chassis from one manufacturer is indeed highly desirable. And while it might not be perfect, the MB Sprinter has been in use as an RV platform for several years and performed quite well. At least it is a known component and can be serviced at one dealer.
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Old 10-08-2017, 09:01 PM   #4
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The Sprinter van drivetrain with the 3.0L V6 turbo-diesel is very reliable.

As far as the dreaded "limp home mode" is concerned, in the almost six years that I've owned my Interstate, mine has never once gone into "limp" mode. The purpose of limp-home mode is to keep you from being stranded on the far edge of nowhere, yet without causing permanent damage to the drivetrain from continued driving when something is wrong. If your van ever enters limp home mode and it's safe to park, then park and call for whatever roadside assistance service you use. Only use limp-home mode to get to a nearby place where you can safely park (even if it means turning around and returning to the place you just left), not to keep moving down the road.

The only time my Interstate ever gave me a countdown display ("You have xx starts remaining") it was because I let the DEF get too low in the middle of an extended trip. And since it only took one start to get to the nearest Walmart to buy more, that wasn't a problem. Since then, I always add more DEF when the dashboard display first reminds me, and I've never again encountered the dreaded countdown, either.

In both cases, following the recommended maintenance schedules will go a long way to preventing problems. And as previously noted by others, being able to get the whole drivetrain serviced in one place is a distinct advantage. As is the fact that said one place could be either a Mercedes dealer or a Freightliner dealer. Some states— Louisiana among them— have laws requiring warranty work to be performed by a dealer rather than a third party. If you live in or are traveling through one of those states when you need warranty work, you'd need a Mercedes dealer. But once the warranty expires or you're in a state without such restrictive warranty laws, the Freightliner dealers become an option for repairs.

One thing I have been considering has been to load every Sprinter and/or Freightliner dealer into my Interstate's GPS as saved favorites, so that in the event of a problem during a trip I can sort them by distance to travel from where I am and I can get a route to the closest one. But I haven't done it yet. I really should get off my butt and do that.
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Old 10-09-2017, 09:39 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Protagonist View Post

One thing I have been considering has been to load every Sprinter and/or Freightliner dealer into my Interstate's GPS as saved favorites, so that in the event of a problem during a trip I can sort them by distance to travel from where I am and I can get a route to the closest one. But I haven't done it yet. I really should get off my butt and do that.

As usual all great advice from Protag except for the one above, just google map it from your smartphone, it’s a heck of lot easier to use than the AI Garmin and more updated as well, even show if the shop is open when you get there ;-)
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Old 10-09-2017, 10:19 AM   #6
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As usual all great advice from Protag except for the one above, just google map it from your smartphone, it’s a heck of lot easier to use than the AI Garmin and more updated as well, even show if the shop is open when you get there ;-)
I have done that before with Google Maps for a place that Garmin couldn't even find. But there are several problems with that approach, for me, at least, as I have learned through personal experience.

1 - My phone's volume won't crank high enough to hear over road noise. Google Maps won't send directions to my Bluetooth headset OR to the Kenwood head unit's Bluetooth. AND my phone won't let me put Google Maps on speaker, either. Directions read aloud don't help if one can't hear them.
2 - I'm a solo traveler. No navigator other than my cat. The cat can't give me directions because she's terrible at reading maps, and would rather sleep while I'm driving anyway. Looking at a phone's map display to get directions while driving is almost as bad as texting while driving in terms of distraction. I need the directions read aloud in real time.
3 - I have traveled to places, as recently as a couple of weeks ago, where I got zero bars on my phone, so no Internet connectivity to look up anything. Google Maps doesn't work well offline.

Having all of the dealers as Garmin POIs would work better for me given those limitations. But if you have internet connectivity at the time, and a navigator to read you the directions, or a phone that lets Google Maps send directions to a Bluetooth speaker or headset, then yes, Google Maps would be the easier choice.
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Old 10-09-2017, 10:48 AM   #7
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Not sure about the newer V6 Sprinter with DEF, but haven't heard anything bad.
The older T1N Sprinter 5 cylinder was solid, but had a tendency to develop minor oil leaks with age and high miles.
It is still great as an RV chassis because RV's are used occasionally for light duty or pleasure.
The T1N was not so good as an ambulance which must run heavy duty 24/7.
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Old 10-09-2017, 11:17 AM   #8
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The T1N was not so good as an ambulance which must run heavy duty 24/7.
In my area, Acadiana Ambulances uses NCV3 Sprinter vans for patient transport between hospitals. Not for EMS, though, because the van just isn't big enough to carry all of the gear first responders need and still fit a patient gurney.

And in my area, FedEx uses NCV3 Sprinter vans extensively for parcel delivery. Not really heavy loads because every box loaded aboard has to be liftable by one driver, but lots of stop and go, with dozens of engine starts in any given day, and/or lots of time spent with the engine running at idle.

Running at idle for long period of time is supposed to be bad for diesel engines, but that's less true for common-rail fuel injection as on the NCV3 Sprinter drivetrain. The reason long idling is considered bad is due to a phenomenon called "wet stacking" where engine cylinder temperature drops at idle and more unburned fuel goes out the exhaust due to incomplete combustion; common rail fuel injection computer-adjusts the amount of fuel injected and reduces wet stacking compared to older fuel injection types.
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Old 10-09-2017, 11:23 AM   #9
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As usual all great advice from Protag except for the one above, just google map it from your smartphone, it’s a heck of lot easier to use than the AI Garmin and more updated as well, even show if the shop is open when you get there ;-)
Great advice if you have a large or unlimited data plan. For those of us who don't you can also use a GPS mapping App like CoPilot. Mine has built in map coverage for USA and Canada. Makes a good backup to the Kenwood/Garmin.

Of course I have used Google maps on occasion when the other mappers are confused. I've found that Google maps is the most accurate and up-to-date mapper available.
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Old 10-09-2017, 11:48 AM   #10
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sprinter

stay away from the 3500 w/ dual wheels. I have 12 sprinters and the 3500 gave me the most trouble.
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Old 10-09-2017, 12:07 PM   #11
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stay away from the 3500 w/ dual wheels. I have 12 sprinters and the 3500 gave me the most trouble.
Since every Interstate— and most competing products— built since about 2010 uses the Sprinter 3500 chassis, that advice is hard to follow for the aspiring Class B owner. Even harder to follow for the present Class B owner.

Perhaps you could elaborate as to exactly what troubles you encountered? "The 3500 gave me the most trouble" is awfully vague and not terribly helpful. Details are important.
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Old 10-09-2017, 01:09 PM   #12
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I am on my third AI, all on the 3500 Sprinter, and I have never had any problems associated with the Sprinter. I am on my third Mercedes ML series suv with the same engine and never had any problems there either. Just lucky maybe
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Old 10-09-2017, 03:44 PM   #13
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stay away from the 3500 w/ dual wheels. I have 12 sprinters and the 3500 gave me the most trouble.
What year is your 3500?

As Protagonist pointed out nearly all B-van RVs since 2010 are on the 3500 Sprinters. The 2500 long wheelbase and extended models don't have the capacity to handle an RV conversion.
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Old 10-09-2017, 04:03 PM   #14
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....
The T1N was not so good as an ambulance which must run heavy duty 24/7.
This made me laugh because on Instagram, I follow Project Amber, who is one of the more authentic and candid T1N DIYers. He converted a surplussed T1N Sprinter ambulance into an RV... did a nice job, too. But the damned thing had 288,000 miles on it at the outset, and he has had his share of repair burdens. More than his share. One day he cracked me up by noting, "This van's urge to retire to the scrap yard is strong."

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Old 10-10-2017, 07:14 AM   #15
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....
Having all of the dealers as Garmin POIs would work better for me given those limitations. But if you have internet connectivity at the time, and a navigator to read you the directions, or a phone that lets Google Maps send directions to a Bluetooth speaker or headset, then yes, Google Maps would be the easier choice.
Totally agreed. Even when traveling as a pairs team, my husband and I tried using other methods but there was too much clutter and inefficiency to them. They are even more unusable during solo travel. I barfed up four hundred bucks for the Garmin 770 and I've not regretted it.

Like you, I want to customize it, except I would like to program in the following, at least along projected routes:

1. Sprinter / Freightliner / MB shops
2. All Cabela's
3. All Walmarts
4. All Cracker Barrels

It's On The List. I'm not sure if there's a way to accomplish any of it globally or if it must be done manually. But it sure would be neat to have.
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Old 10-10-2017, 07:34 AM   #16
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Totally agreed. Even when traveling as a pairs team, my husband and I tried using other methods but there was too much clutter and inefficiency to them. They are even more unusable during solo travel. I barfed up four hundred bucks for the Garmin 770 and I've not regretted it.

Like you, I want to customize it, except I would like to program in the following, at least along projected routes:

1. Sprinter / Freightliner / MB shops
2. All Cabela's
3. All Walmarts
4. All Cracker Barrels

It's On The List. I'm not sure if there's a way to accomplish any of it globally or if it must be done manually. But it sure would be neat to have.
5. Dairy Queen (I ride a Goldwing, we never pass a DQ)

How and where did you mount yours? How did you power it?
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Old 10-10-2017, 08:06 AM   #17
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...
How and where did you mount yours? How did you power it?
It's USB powered and my husband LB_3 ran a permanent power cord up through the joint in the dash between the center console and the steering column section.

It powers up and down automatically with the engine - not like the 12 volt dash outlets which are "always on" with T1N Sprinters (that would be bad). It was an easy electrical retrofit. It sits on its little sandbag and we've never had any problem with it scooting around.

Edit: It might be 5 v, and it may have required a step-down of some sort. I'll ask LB_3, but still, I recall no bellowing generated during this job. It wasn't hard.

What I like best about this thing is that Garmin has perfected the screen quality. It's viewable in all light conditions - never too bright, never too dim. Here's a pic of it on a National Forest road, but pics don't do it justice.

And no friggin' visual clutter. OMG, that drove me nuts with every other product we tried.

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Old 10-10-2017, 08:17 AM   #18
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It's USB powered and my husband LB_3 ran a permanent power cord up through the joint in the dash between the center console and the steering column section.

It powers up and down automatically with the engine - not like the 12 volt dash outlets which are "always on" with T1N Sprinters (that would be bad). It was an easy electrical retrofit. It sits on its little sandbag and we've never had any problem with it scooting around.

Edit: It might be 5 v, and it may have required a step-down of some sort. I'll ask LB_3, but still, I recall no bellowing generated during this job. It wasn't hard.

What I like best about this thing is that Garmin has perfected the screen quality. It's viewable in all light conditions - never too bright, never too dim. Here's a pic of it on a National Forest road, but pics don't do it justice.

And no friggin' visual clutter. OMG, that drove me nuts with every other product we tried.
If it’s like the 2798 I have in the FJ, the hard wire cable has a step down box on it. I’d use that one, but it is only a 5” screen and seems to be dying a slow death. It randomly powers down even though it has full battery charge.

Thanks!
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Old 10-10-2017, 08:42 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by InterBlog View Post
Totally agreed. Even when traveling as a pairs team, my husband and I tried using other methods but there was too much clutter and inefficiency to them. They are even more unusable during solo travel. I barfed up four hundred bucks for the Garmin 770 and I've not regretted it.



Like you, I want to customize it, except I would like to program in the following, at least along projected routes:



1. Sprinter / Freightliner / MB shops

2. All Cabela's

3. All Walmarts

4. All Cracker Barrels



It's On The List. I'm not sure if there's a way to accomplish any of it globally or if it must be done manually. But it sure would be neat to have.


There are pro and con to both systems I think, the pure GPS based Garmin/Tomtom versus GPS/cellular smartphone map apps such as Google and Apple map. Since this is off topic to the OP question, I could start another post so we can share experience on how we plan our trips, tips and tricks, etc. using both systems. The last time I asked for direction help from my wife, she couldn’t tell where we were on the map, I turned to look and saw her holding the Atlas map upside down!
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Old 10-10-2017, 02:50 PM   #20
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It's USB powered and my husband LB_3 ran a permanent power cord up through the joint in the dash between the center console and the steering column section.

It powers up and down automatically with the engine - not like the 12 volt dash outlets which are "always on" with T1N Sprinters (that would be bad). It was an easy electrical retrofit. It sits on its little sandbag and we've never had any problem with it scooting around.

Edit: It might be 5 v, and it may have required a step-down of some sort. I'll ask LB_3, but still, I recall no bellowing generated during this job. It wasn't hard.

What I like best about this thing is that Garmin has perfected the screen quality. It's viewable in all light conditions - never too bright, never too dim. Here's a pic of it on a National Forest road, but pics don't do it justice.

And no friggin' visual clutter. OMG, that drove me nuts with every other product we tried.

Nobody appreciates my pain.

I initially cut up a usb charging cable and wired it into a 5v buck converter I had left over from a previous project. The converter was soldered into a big massive wire bundle under the dash tied to the van’s ignition and the cable was routed under one of the dash panels. It didn’t work.

I have a history of frying expensive electronics so I had tested things thoroughly befor hooking up the Garmin. Afraid I might have fried the Garmin I tested and retested my new charging cable and couldn’t find the fault. I finally read somewhere that the Garmin chargers use an authentication circuit so I set off to Best Buy to get an authentic Garmin charging cable which I promptly cut open with a drimmel then soldered new leads onto the circuit board. After rerouting and soldering this new circuit into the Sprinter wire harness, it’s worked flawlessly ever since.
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