H2o

[Lily&Me]

Folks read these threads to get information, especially new folks.

I think it is important we not have newbies needlessly running in circles, hoping the sky doesn't fall.



Maggie

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Lily&Me

Aren't campground fresh water hookups....at individual sites and in general....required to be palatable water, from a well or otherwise??

No. They're required to be potable. "Palatable" means it tastes good. "Potable" means it's safe to drink. But some potable water can still taste bad, or smell bad, or even look bad. It just won't make you sick.

Wells are classified as "community" sources if more than 25 people use the water year-round. The same 25 people.

If there are fewer than 25 permanent users, but there are some permanent users, then it's a non-community source. A home water well fits that category.

They're classified as "non-transient" sources if the same 25 people use the water for more than six months, but less than a year. Some campgrounds that cater to snowbirds fall into this category.

They're classified as "transient" sources if fewer than 25 people the well for at least six months out of a year. Most campgrounds fit this category. So let's use this type as an example.

Water well testing is regulated by individual states, but requirements don't vary a whole lot from state to state; they all use some variant of the EPA model.

Basically, if fewer than 1000 people use the water well in an average month, then the well is tested just once a month.

If more than 5000 people use the water well in an average month, the well is tested about once a week.

If more than 25,000 people use the well in an average month, then the well water is tested once a day.

I don't know about you guys, but I've never stayed in a campground that was so big and so busy that they had daily well water testing.

All it takes is one break in the campground's fresh water plumbing, such as an RV backing over a service pedestal, to introduce contaminants into their plumbing.

So you're staying in a small campground with only 25 campsites. It will average less than 750 people a month even if no one stays more than one night, and the water is only tested once a month. It was good last month, supposedly, but how do you know? And is it good now, however many weeks since the last test?

I would rather use a filter of my own and be more certain of the quality of water I use.

And for those who say they use bottled water to drink so it's not a problem, do you also use bottled water to cook? Or to bathe? Or to wash your dishes? You're supposed to use potable water for cooking and bathing as well as for drinking.

[Lily&Me]

Originally Posted by Lily&Me

Folks read these threads to get information, especially new folks.

I think it is important we not have newbies needlessly running in circles, hoping the sky doesn't fall.



Maggie

Somehow I knew you were gathering information and statistics, Protag.

Correct....potable would have been a more accurate term than palatable.

Still.....I have been in a number of campgrounds where there have been just the problems you speak of....someone running over a water connection, etc....and the campground turns the water off, fixes it, does whatever.

And, never an illness from the water, reports of illness, rumors of illness.

I don't intend to change my normal precautions, nor purchase a special filter, nor have I heard any information here or anywhere that indicates that is a reasonable step to take.

Do what you like, but I don't think it serves or helps anyone to promulgate unreasonable fears here....on this thread or any other.

Okay. I'm done, and out of this thread.


Maggie

[Gene]

Maggie, the sky doesn't fall for many people, but for a few, it does. I'm glad to hear you haven't had any problems and hope you never do. If we ever meet you somewhere, we'll be glad to give you a drink of water or beer, wine or maybe a gin and tonic.

Municipal water is supposed to be giardia free, but a couple of years ago Alamosa, Colorado, did have problems and it took weeks (and money) to solve it. A couple of decades ago, Idaho Springs, Colorado, did too. I recall it took weeks or more to clean up. Different places have different rules and levels of compliance. While EPA has regulations, most states do the enforcement and often do a poor job. I don't know what Canada does, but remote CG's probably don't see inspectors very often and problems can happen between infrequent inspections.

A CG manager may say they have municipal water and have a well and not know the difference. We have had salty water along the coast of Nova Scotia—the well was too close to the harbor and salt water was infiltrating the well. I realized it when brushing my teeth and used bottled water after that. I assume oil and gasoline was in the harbor water too. These were cabins and the manager was unaware there was a problem. I've been to CG's where the water was light brown from runoff, even from a well—in fact I had the same problem with a well I had 20 years ago. That's when I installed a whole house filter. The silt that comes at times can harbor bacteria and parasites according to the Colorado Dep't of Health and a municipal system can have have problems. I was on a small water company's board for years and we had periodic problems with silt which made the state authorities very upset until we spent $700,000 on a new filter plant. We never heard of anyone getting sick except for the one board member who got giardia. We never knew whether it was from his RV camping or our water company.

I hate to sound like an alarmist, but we just look at it as being careful because getting sick spoils travels. I wash lettuce that had been washed before just because it is safer, though probably unnecessary most of the time. I don't go so far as peeling the fruit even though that may be a good idea too because of pesticides.

That exterior filter is a pain at times. When temps are going down to freezing at night, I have to disconnect the water hose and drain it and the filter. Usually I don't do it until late in the evening when I see the temp dropping fast. It is wet and cold and I don't enjoy it. It is just part of camping and easier than setting up a tent and cooking over a fire. And then the water jug freezes in the tent anyway. I wasn't always so careful when we tent camped and never added anything to the canteens to sanitize them. We never got sick then either. Being older, I assume our immune systems aren't so vigorous now and so we take precautions. I'm sure it isn't for everyone.

Gene

[Lily&Me]

And, I mightily respect your opinions and perspectives, Gene.


Maggie

[Gene]

Pro', the regs in Colorado for water companies are similar. And that means that small "community" systems may be small enough there is no regulation. My time on a water company board taught me that many small systems are poorly run and do little or no testing regardless of what the state required.

Testing is not cheap and some testing businesses are not state regulated either. Our company had to send some water for testing far away to get results that the state would accept. This was expensive and time consuming. And there were so many tests required that it was difficult to keep track of it and do it in time.

We on the board kept after it, but other companies in the area resented all that government regulation and spent more time and energy avoiding regs than following them. Their systems would break down and people did not get any water for weeks at a time. I doubt they sanitized their systems properly when they got back on line. Despite the fact everyone wants clean and good tasting water, not everyone gets it. Once you are involved in a water company you don't know just how good or bad a job various companies or municipalities do, but you do find out about how some do a sloppy job. When traveling, you are completely ignorant about what the local water provider is doing or not doing.

Gene

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Lily&Me

Do what you like, but I don't think it serves or helps anyone to promulgate unreasonable fears here....on this thread or any other.

I'm not trying to promulgate fears, unreasonable or otherwise. But if Airstreamers are going to make decisions, they should make informed decisions.

I wasn't gathering statistics and info. I already had them. In my past life in the Army Corps of Engineers, I was responsible— along with our beleaguered and understaffed Safety Office— with monitoring no less than fifteen water wells at manned field sites. Fun fact, the State doesn't send people out to take water quality samples. The well owner takes the samples, sends them to a state-approved but independent testing lab, and then both the State and the well owner get copies of the test results. The State doesn't step in until the well fails a test, or they notice that required tests didn't happen. I learned that the field foremen at our sites never were adequately trained on how to take the water samples, so we had to get them trained. Most well owners never get training on the right way— or even the right place— to take samples.

I analyzed water quality test results to see what kind of treatment was necessary to comply with Louisiana Department of Health and Hospitals water quality requirements. I designed treatment systems for those wells. I even wrote technical specifications for installing new wells when the old ones ended up with cracked casings or other irreparable damage. Ah, the joys of working on the Operations side of the house; my duties were many and varied, and I got a full 33½ years of experience, not one year of experience 33½ times. But anyway…

Everyone should decide for themselves whether they will use an external filter or carry gallons of bottled water or whatever. As for me, I use the el cheapo external Camco filter because my Interstate has no internal filter under the sink. I don't spend extra to get a 5-micron filter. But I also travel with a full fresh tank filled from home, just in case.

[Gene]

Pro' is right—the state doesn't take the samples, people do and many do it wrong. I gave heard stories about people taking river samples who stand upstream from the bottle and contaminate the sample, or people who contaminate the sample bottles when faucet samples are taken.

It used to be when you got a mortgage and had a well in the county I used to live in 15 years ago, you had to get a basic water sample and it was taken by the County Dep't of Health, but they stopped that. I didn't get samples of the well water at our new house and the only lab I know of in Grand Junction is not state approved. One way you can have problems in your house is if you have copper pipes and old flux (or whatever they use) with lead in it was used and the plumbing was done by someone who used too much. I had a lead problem in some bathrooms in one house and had to replace all the fittings. I checked all the other faucets and they were fine. Lead was banned in the late '70's, but people used old stuff when they did copper plumbing even though the house was built in 1983. Fortunately we didn't drink the water from the bathrooms, but I'm sure the kids who had been raised there did. Children are much more sensitive to lead and one of them is in jail for life after killing his wife. I only met him once and thought he was kinda dumb.

So, there are many ways to have some problem and you can't worry about them all. Who really knows what's in the water at a restaurant? Or, if that supposedly clean water in the bottle you buy is tested? I remember being told decades ago not to drink the water in Mexico, but you could brush your teeth with it so long as you didn't swallow any. How do you not swallow any? And some is absorbed under your tongue. But you can protect yourself from some things rather easily, and we do.

Gene

[73shark]

And you also have to worry about ice in drinks in Mexico.

[MaineStreamer]

An advertising email from Airstream Supply has this filter info:
Tip #3: Get your water system ready. Newer Airstreams come with a Pentek inline filter which keeps your water filtered. These should be replaced after filtering 3,300 gallons or after a year, whichever comes first. You want to make sure you have better tasting water to drink and cook with.
Clearly this is not a $15 filter, since the cartridge alone is nearly twice that price, and 5 micron rather than 100 micron, as the Walmart filter is.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by MaineStreamer

An advertising email from Airstream Supply has this filter info:
Tip #3: Get your water system ready. Newer Airstreams come with a Pentek inline filter which keeps your water filtered. These should be replaced after filtering 3,300 gallons or after a year, whichever comes first. You want to make sure you have better tasting water to drink and cook with.

In the trailers, maybe. Not in the Interstates, unless that's one more thing they've changed since the 2012 model year. An external filter is the only filter I've got.

[BASE729]

Originally Posted by MaineStreamer

An advertising email from Airstream Supply has this filter info:
Tip #3: Get your water system ready. Newer Airstreams come with a Pentek inline filter which keeps your water filtered. These should be replaced after filtering 3,300 gallons or after a year, whichever comes first. You want to make sure you have better tasting water to drink and cook with.
Clearly this is not a $15 filter, since the cartridge alone is nearly twice that price, and 5 micron rather than 100 micron, as the Walmart filter is.

I have a 2015 27FB and the water filter that comes with the trailer is below the kitchen sink and only filters the kitchen sink. Not sure if they filter before or after the mixing valve for hot and cold.

[Lily&Me]

I got a bit snappish here yesterday, and I apologize.

Poor behavior on my part.




Maggie

[polarlyse]

Previous owner of our Classic Excella installed a whole house filter below the bathroom counter. It serves the kitchen as well. I remove the cartridge in the fall as part of the winterization process and install a new one putting things back into service. In our previous AS I used the walmart blue canister on the outside connection. I do need to check the degree of filtration just for my own information. We do drink the water from the tank and will be careful to taste water before filling. We also carry bottled water for those times when it doesn't taste so good.

[Gene]

So there is disagreement whether an inline filter comes with newer Airstreams. Maybe it comes with the top of the line trailers only, but where would it be? An inline filter usually is an exterior one attached in a hose that either fills the city water inlet or directly to the fresh water tank. There are two different inlets, so 2 filters would be needed if they were integrated into the body somewhere. Or it could be inside somewhere where the water lines from city water and the fresh water tank come together. Anyone have one?

This is a different style filter than some of us have been posting about. It is an integrated unit with the housing and filter together. I have seen such filters in stores, but the one I have has a separate housing and you take it apart and replace a separate filter inside. In a few years, you are ahead on cost.

And for years there has been a separate filter installed below the kitchen sink. It is (or was) a Moen. Airstream sells them for a lot more than you pay elsewhere. It comes with a watch style battery and when the filter has been there too long, a light comes on at the faucet to tell you to replace it. If you don't camp often, I imagine the battery fails before the filter does. This is also a one piece filter—housing and filter come together. You can remove this filter and rely on an external one and save more. Once you remove it a valve closes to prevent a leak under the sink and water flows at the faucet as if the filter was installed.

Maggie, I've been reading your posts for years and this is the first time you have ever strayed from your usual kind and friendly demeanor. I wish I could say the same about myself. Your exemplary behavior certainly excuses a one time [I]small[I] lapse. I believe it was caused by drinking unfltered water.

Gene

[Lily&Me]

Originally Posted by Gene

Maggie, I've been reading your posts for years and this is the first time you have ever strayed from your usual kind and friendly demeanor. I wish I could say the same about myself. Your exemplary behavior certainly excuses a one time [I]small[I] lapse. I believe it was caused by drinking unfltered water.

Gene

Thank you, but I must say honestly you apparently missed a few.

I try not to let annoyance get the best of me, but sometimes it just lurches out, with a complete mind of its own.


Maggie

[Paddledipper]

Originally Posted by Farmer Dan

Here is the mix we use. It is somewhat similar to Msmoto's. I got it from a friend that had been full-timing for 10 yrs. 1 part each : Liquid Wisk, Liquid Downy, Pine-Sol and 1/4 part lemon Ammonia. (I suspect any liquid laundry soap would work for the Wisk.) We add about 1/2 cup to the bowl and plenty of water then flush after each dump. If odor persists or returns add more mix. It will separate so shaking before use is necessary. I mix a gallon or two and carry with us. A smaller flip-top bottle of the mix kept in the shower is handy for use.

Dan

One of my favorite things about Air Forums is the sharing of information. Bread recipe from Maggie, needed advice from so many others and now this from Dan. Mixed a gallon up and dropped in 1/2 a cup in the old black tank tonight. Thanks!

[MaineStreamer]

Here is what I ordered tonight through Amazon.com so the filter will be 5-micron:
+ +
Price for all three: $65.20

Camco 40631 EVO Premium Water Filter $40.78


Camco 40621 EVO Premium Water Filter Replacement Cartridge $11.19

Camco 40772 Water Filter Stand $13.23

See the TastePURE Water Filter Guide at http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/B1AnDRMP8hS.pdf