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Old 01-12-2015, 02:40 PM   #21
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Having flat towed a Smart car and a Subaru Impreza a total of maybe 40,000 miles, I have some experience. And, IMO, if you have a medical condition which prevents you from hooking up a trailer, you are not going to be able to hook up a flat towed vehicle either. At times one must detach the components of the towing rig and these may not be heavy but are rather cumbersome. You will need to put up some effort on a regular basis, and in the event you have a situation which requires detaching in a strange location, this will not be possible for you.

The simple fact is, if you cannot lift a sway control bar, you should not be engaging in towing either. Both hook ups require at times a significant physical effort.

Sorry, oh, and I used to play doctor before retirement, so I have a little experience there as well.
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Old 01-12-2015, 03:28 PM   #22
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Just how heavy is the ProPride stinger? I'm ordering next week for my ordered FC 28 and 2015 2500HD Duramax Chevy.
Never weighed my Hensley - probably 25 lbs though. Similar I'm sure.

Another member has a short orange safety cone he positions over his stringer with bungee cords. Just leaves it in, and the cone prevents whacked shin syndrome.

May I suggest that there are lots of adaptive solutions one could use like a table or step stool on wheels to cart the heavy pieces back and forth.

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Old 01-12-2015, 07:26 PM   #23
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Thanks everyone. All of is info is very very helpful. I was hoping that hooking up a toad would be a lot easier in terms of weight/lifting/pulling. It sounds like it is not.

Too bad. I hate to give up our glamping adventures in the airstream. We love getting out in nature. I will keep monitoring this thread in case anyone else has more input. Lots to think about.
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Old 01-12-2015, 07:51 PM   #24
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My Honda has the EZ Twistlock towbar brackets. But I still leave my towbar crossbar mounted most of the time anyway.
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Old 01-13-2015, 08:29 AM   #25
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We don't tow a toad with our Interstate. It's small enough to go almost everywhere. Yesterday we were in downtown Charleston where they have parking right next to the visitors center. Disconnecting the power and water is easy to allow you to stay mobile without much effort. It is really a question of how you want to travel. We only stay in one spot for 3-5 days so it works for us.
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Old 01-13-2015, 11:05 AM   #26
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We don't tow a toad with our Interstate. It's small enough to go almost everywhere. Yesterday we were in downtown Charleston where they have parking right next to the visitors center. Disconnecting the power and water is easy to allow you to stay mobile without much effort. It is really a question of how you want to travel. We only stay in one spot for 3-5 days so it works for us.
This is interesting. D any of you drive your interstates on rough potholed dirt roads? How does it do? When we camp, we like to get off the beaten path and explore nearby rivers which typically requires driving down rough dirt roads and pullouts. What's the interstate like in these conditions? That is why we were thinking of needing a toad.
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Old 01-13-2015, 12:26 PM   #27
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This is interesting. D any of you drive your interstates on rough potholed dirt roads? How does it do? When we camp, we like to get off the beaten path and explore nearby rivers which typically requires driving down rough dirt roads and pullouts. What's the interstate like in these conditions? That is why we were thinking of needing a toad.
Yes, and the answer is not well at all. You can always drive slowly around/over potholes, but the real problem is the clearance, especially at the rear with the very long overhang. There's something like about 5 inches clearance under the generator and that is behind the rear axle, so you have to be extremely careful over rough ground.
I like to dry camp a lot here in the southwest, but to venture down forestry roads is almost impossible.
Actually I was thinking about getting a small offroad motorcycle for that purpose; if I can persuade she who must be obeyed.
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Old 01-13-2015, 01:17 PM   #28
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We towed a 4,000 pound Jeep with our 38' SOB motorhome. Once hitch was put into the receiver on the MH it never left, it's a Demco. Your problem might come from the brakes required in many states on the toad. In PA for instance any towed vehicle over 3,000 pounds must have it's own brakes. The toad has brakes, but must be activated from the MH, thus a "brake buddy" or some such thing. We used the brake buddy which is a box, not heavy but cumbersome, which needs to be placed between the brake pedal and seat of the towed vehicle, then a actuator rod needs to be placed on the brake pedal and snapped and locked into place. Then the seat moved forward to just touch the rear of the brake buddy. Not complicated nor difficult, but does require lifting the brake buddy box and positioning it in the toad and then removing it.

In case you go this route I have both for sale on the sales side of the AS Forum. We sold he MH and the people already had the set up for their toad.

Many people travel without the brake buddy, one it's illegal and two out west where we went we needed it to help slow the whole circus down.
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Old 01-13-2015, 01:45 PM   #29
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Money vs. Convenience and Interstate Glamping

Here's a thought. If you're glamping, I really wonder if the cost of hauling a toad makes all that much sense. I'd probably never want one for an overnight stay, but if I were visiting friends or staying for a couple of weeks - stir crazy would be a problem.

I've noticed more and more small towns are becoming "golf cart villages" - Colonial Beach VA being one I visited less than a year ago. Many of those towns have cart rental stores, and nearby campgrounds rent the carts on a daily or weekly basis, too. A few places also rent Segways.

Come to think of it, is there any reason you couldn't drive a Segway up a ramp into the back of an Interstate? What do they weigh?

If you think about it, the cost of owning and towing a toad vehicle might not be that much less than judiciously renting a golf cart or a car on occasion. It might reduce the frequency of really going off the paved roads, but it actually shouldn't stop you from camping at all. And the run to a grocery store - well, reel in the power cord, roll up the water hose and go!

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Hensley stringer alternative. You CAN leave the stringer in the Hensley Hitch on your trailer. It's what you do at the mothership.

Just pull the hitch pin out and drive away (After lowering the trailer jack and loosening the tension on the bars first). To prevent theft put a BIG padlock in the hitch pin hole, wrap the chains around the hitch and padlock them together too.

Getting the stringer back into your truck's hitch. I seriously doubt that you can back the receiver onto the truck end of the stringer - unless you have the stringer supported by something at just the right height and angle, but if you back up and get the receiver within a couple of inches of the stringer... easing the stringer across the gap on a sturdy ice chest with wheels? or a folding footstool (the 1 foot high size) shouldn't be a big deal.
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Old 01-13-2015, 02:51 PM   #30
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Here's a thought. If you're glamping, I really wonder if the cost of hauling a toad makes all that much sense. I'd probably never want one for an overnight stay, but if I were visiting friends or staying for a couple of weeks - stir crazy would be a problem.
My toad is my daily driver. Since I do not use my Interstate as a daily driver, I would have another vehicle even if it wasn't a toad. So for me, the cost of owning another vehicle has nothing to do with it being a toad.

The costs that ARE associated with it being a toad are:
Adding the towbar baseplates to the toad;
Rewiring the toad so that the taillights and turn signals work both normally and through an umbilical cable;
Adding supplemental brakes to the toad;
Buying the towbar for the motorhome;
The cost of fuel to tow the toad.

The cost of fuel is the only recurring cost. Based on the fuel economy I get with my Interstate towing and not towing over the same stretch of highway, towing costs me about 1 mile per gallon, from 19mpg to 18mpg. Now over a distance of 342 miles, towing I use 19 gallons of diesel. Not towing, I use 18 gallons of diesel over the same distance. As long as diesel costs less than $3.42 per gallon, it costs me less than a penny a mile in fuel to tow my Honda.

As for the other costs, since they're fixed one-time-only costs, amortized over the number of miles I've towed my toad (over 7000 miles as of today), since the cost to convert my Honda to a toad and add a towbar to the motorhome was less than $3500 total, it has cost me only 50¢ per mile of towing so far to do the conversion. In another 7000 miles of towing— and I'll be adding the first 1000 miles of that before the end of the month— the fixed costs will be just 25¢ per mile towed. And so on. The toad gets cheaper to use— as a toad— the more I use it.

Left out of the equation is the cost savings in using a 37mpg Honda to go exploring and make grocery runs vs. using a 19mpg Interstate to go exploring and make grocery runs while camped. Considering that I have camped in places where the nearest town to buy anything I've forgotten was 30 miles away that can make a difference as well.

But to balance that out, also left out of the equation is slightly increased wear on the toad's tires and brakes from being towed. But since the odometer doesn't add any miles while while it's being towed, those 7000 miles I've towed it are invisible as far as the official mileage is concerned.

Now in the interest of full disclosure, the primary reason I have a toad now instead of the big SUV I formerly used as a daily driver is that the SUV wasn't towable, I live alone, and I live in hurricane country. If I had to evacuate for a hurricane while I had the SUV, I'd have to leave one vehicle behind at the mercy of the storm while I bugged out with the other one. With the toad, I can load the toad with stuff from my apartment like it was a small box trailer, hitch it up behind my Interstate, and evacuate with BOTH vehicles, thus saving a larger fraction of my total net worth. Anybody who has been through Katrina, Rita, Sandy, or other major storms will understand.

Even if having a toad was completely uneconomical I'd have one for that reason alone, versus a daily driver that isn't towable.

But having a toad for that reason, it would be positively criminal NOT to use it all the time as a toad even for ordinary camping trips.

Now if your motorhome IS going to be your daily driver and you'll use it for everything, you would have to amortize the whole cost of the towed vehicle over the number of miles towed, and you'd never tow it enough miles to make that economical. But as long as you have a motorhome plus a daily driver anyway, it only makes sense for the daily driver to be towable.
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Old 01-13-2015, 03:37 PM   #31
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Another thought you might consider if going the MH route is to budget for renting a car where you need one and when. On our trip out west this past summer and fall we camped with several people that specifically camped in towns with car rental facilities so they could rent when they needed and where, and not have the added expense of all that is required of a toad. Enterprise even delivered a car to one couple at the camp ground, and another campground had cars for rent at the office, all kinds of cars from small Honda Fit to larger vans.
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Old 01-13-2015, 04:59 PM   #32
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Difficulties of towing a toad

Quote:
Originally Posted by bonginator View Post
This is interesting. D any of you drive your interstates on rough potholed dirt roads? How does it do? When we camp, we like to get off the beaten path and explore nearby rivers which typically requires driving down rough dirt roads and pullouts. What's the interstate like in these conditions? That is why we were thinking of needing a toad.

Yes - lots of rough dirt roads so far - many during our Alaska trip last summer. You just need to go slow. The worst was a trail to my brothers cabin in northern Minnesota. The route went from pavement to gravel to a logging road to two ruts in the mud with tree branches rubbing on both sides. Today it was a muddy dirt road leading to the Angel Oak tree on John's Island near Charleston SC. The Interstate as a Sprinter with dual rear wheels handles it well. Just don't go too fast to rock all the contents of your home on wheels.
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Old 01-14-2015, 05:15 AM   #33
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This is interesting. D any of you drive your interstates on rough potholed dirt roads? How does it do? When we camp, we like to get off the beaten path and explore nearby rivers which typically requires driving down rough dirt roads and pullouts. What's the interstate like in these conditions? That is why we were thinking of needing a toad.
You can get mudflaps that mount on a hitch (including a towbar) to protect your toad against flying gravel, too. If you're planning to travel unimproved back roads, that would be a wise investment.
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Old 01-14-2015, 08:23 AM   #34
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Another thought you might consider if going the MH route is to budget for renting a car where you need one and when. On our trip out west this past summer and fall we camped with several people that specifically camped in towns with car rental facilities so they could rent when they needed and where, and not have the added expense of all that is required of a toad. Enterprise even delivered a car to one couple at the camp ground, and another campground had cars for rent at the office, all kinds of cars from small Honda Fit to larger vans.
Thanks for the suggestion. A rental car is not an option for us since we camp in lots of remote places to go fishing (hence the need for a vehicle that will handle small, potholed, narrow dirt roads.)
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Old 01-14-2015, 08:25 AM   #35
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You can get mudflaps that mount on a hitch (including a towbar) to protect your toad against flying gravel, too. If you're planning to travel unimproved back roads, that would be a wise investment.
I have a question about terminology - you mentioned a toad and your SUV in another post. Is a "toad" the universal term for a vehicle that you tow or is it a small vehicle?
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Old 01-14-2015, 08:27 AM   #36
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Here's a thought. If you're glamping, I really wonder if the cost of hauling a toad makes all that much sense. I'd probably never want one for an overnight stay, but if I were visiting friends or staying for a couple of weeks - stir crazy would be a problem.

I've noticed more and more small towns are becoming "golf cart villages" - Colonial Beach VA being one I visited less than a year ago. Many of those towns have cart rental stores, and nearby campgrounds rent the carts on a daily or weekly basis, too. A few places also rent Segways.

Come to think of it, is there any reason you couldn't drive a Segway up a ramp into the back of an Interstate? What do they weigh?

If you think about it, the cost of owning and towing a toad vehicle might not be that much less than judiciously renting a golf cart or a car on occasion. It might reduce the frequency of really going off the paved roads, but it actually shouldn't stop you from camping at all. And the run to a grocery store - well, reel in the power cord, roll up the water hose and go!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hensley stringer alternative. You CAN leave the stringer in the Hensley Hitch on your trailer. It's what you do at the mothership.

Just pull the hitch pin out and drive away (After lowering the trailer jack and loosening the tension on the bars first). To prevent theft put a BIG padlock in the hitch pin hole, wrap the chains around the hitch and padlock them together too.

Getting the stringer back into your truck's hitch. I seriously doubt that you can back the receiver onto the truck end of the stringer - unless you have the stringer supported by something at just the right height and angle, but if you back up and get the receiver within a couple of inches of the stringer... easing the stringer across the gap on a sturdy ice chest with wheels? or a folding footstool (the 1 foot high size) shouldn't be a big deal.
Very creative idea. Are segways street legal and can they be ridden on rough surfaces like a potholed dirt road? I thought about an atv but then you have to deal with moving a heavy trailer around.
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Old 01-14-2015, 10:46 AM   #37
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Very creative idea. Are segways street legal and can they be ridden on rough surfaces like a potholed dirt road? I thought about an atv but then you have to deal with moving a heavy trailer around.
One of my (former) coworkers is mobility-impaired and I looked into the laws concerning Segways for her because she thought it would be better than a motorized wheelchair or scooter for her.

Only five states have not enacted any laws related to Segways: Arkansas, Kentucky, Massachusetts, North Dakota, and Wyoming. The other forty-five states all have laws related to the use of Segways. I haven't looked up the laws in all 45 of those states, but I have looked up a random sampling.

Segways are generally legal on bike paths, sidewalks, and low-speed city streets. They are considered consumer products rather than vehicles under most of the state laws that I've seen, and have the same legal standing as a motorized wheelchair as an electrically powered mobility assistance device— except you don't have to be handicapped to legally use one. Some laws related to pedestrians also apply to Segways.

You can go here as a starting point for looking up your state's laws concerning Segways: State Segway Laws

As for off-road, even the "x2" models have limited ground clearance. You'll have to stick to improved trails; you can't take one on a mountain bile trail and expect to make it all the way around the course.

But as a plus, you can get cargo boxes or larger open-topped cargo bins that fit over the tires so that you can use it to schlep stuff back and forth, such as groceries or that potluck dinner you need to haul to the campground's clubhouse.

The supposedly "off-road" x2 weighs about 120 pounds including the battery pack. You can partially disassemble a Segway for transport. The battery pack, handlebar, and most accessories are removable. But you can't ship it by air— ground only— because the battery pack is considered hazardous material and can't be shipped by air.

A Segway isn't cheap. Cost is approximately $6000 new for the low-end models, and price goes up from there as you add features and accessories.
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Old 01-14-2015, 11:08 AM   #38
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Say goodbye to Airstream

And get a toy hauler with a powered RAMP.

Run your ATV up the ramp and into the garage.

The ATV gets you to the trout stream.


Of course you could get a Pan America but that's a BIG honkin' Airstream and the hauling capacity is probably good only for ONE ATV, and they aren't still making them but I'd bet you could find one somewhere. Even with some retrofitting you'll spend less than buying a new Interstate.

Wonder if the factory would take a special order? Hmmm. Call the mothership and report back.

Best wishes, Paula
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Old 01-14-2015, 11:26 AM   #39
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...

The costs that ARE associated with it being a toad are:
Adding the towbar baseplates to the toad;
Rewiring the toad so that the taillights and turn signals work both normally and through an umbilical cable;
Adding supplemental brakes to the toad;
Buying the towbar for the motorhome;
The cost of fuel to tow the toad.

...

Now if your motorhome IS going to be your daily driver and you'll use it for everything, you would have to amortize the whole cost of the towed vehicle over the number of miles towed, and you'd never tow it enough miles to make that economical. But as long as you have a motorhome plus a daily driver anyway, it only makes sense for the daily driver to be towable.
Without installation costs, toad parts were under 1k.
My Fit replaced the daily driver Mercury Marquis, only thing it doesn't do is carry the kayak so I kept my old toad Ford Ranger modified with a disconnect for transmission to make it towable, it carries the bikes too. but weighs in at 4k compared to the Fit at 2500 pounds.

When we had the Coachhouse van, didn't use toad and never missed having one, as the van fit in a regular parking spot.
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Old 01-14-2015, 11:33 AM   #40
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I have a question about terminology - you mentioned a toad and your SUV in another post. Is a "toad" the universal term for a vehicle that you tow or is it a small vehicle?
It's not universal for any small vehicle, because small vehicles that aren't towed aren't toads. If you pull it on a trailer, even a motorcycle can be a toad.

Another word for toad is "dinghy" which is a holdover from yachting usage, same way our electrical hookup is "shore power." But calling a towed car a "dinghy" is awfully pretentious, and I refuse to take myself that seriously. However, there are some motorhome owners— usually the owners of very large high-end and stratospherically-priced square-box motorhomes— who get offended if you call their dinghy a mere toad.

I save my pretensions for my AirForums ID ("Protagonist" is a pretentious name if ever there was one) and my vehicle names— "Kaiser" for my Interstate since the Sprinter part was made in Germany and "Mikado" for my Honda since it was made in Japan— both of which mean "Emperor" in their respective native languages.

But since all three pretentious names are used in jest— because they're deliberately pretentious— are they still considered pretentious, or iconoclastic?
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