Visit our Popular Forums

lornec · 10-24-2012, 01:18 PM

Just for your information there is a diesel countertop cooker. It looks like a ceramic surface unit with 2 cooking positions. Its diesel powered without an open flame and starts electrically with a button. It uses very little fuel and vents to the outside. The brand is Wassa and I think its made in Sweden,google it for the web site of the importer.

Protagonist · 10-24-2012, 04:11 PM

Wallas, actually. They make diesel appliances for boats.
Wallas Heater | Boat | Stoves | Cooking Equipment | ScanMarineUSA.com
I believe the model to which you refer is the Wallas "Safeflame."

There is an extensive discussion on the subject at Sprinter-Source.com. From reports, diesel stoves and cooktops take a long time to heat up, and they tend to have a soot problem unless you vent them to a fare-thee-well. Product literature from the manufactuer says "soot-free" but that depends entirely on how you install it. Some users also report that it gives an odd taste to the food, but that's probably due to inadequate venting of the diesel exhaust.

You'll need to punch a new hole in the side of your Sprinter to vent the diesel exhaust. And unless you're starting with a baseline Sprinter that doesn't have a propane system already, you'll spend much time and effort removing the propane system in order to plumb your unit for diesel appliances.

Fortunately, you can also get diesel furnaces and water heaters, to make it a complete set. I can't see why you'd want to, but to each his own.

By the way, diesel fumes tend to be low in carbon monoxide, but high in sulfur dioxide, even for road-use ultra-low-sulfur diesel fuel (ultra-low doesn't mean zero-sulfur). Sulfur dioxide can hurt you just as badly as carbon monoxide, and it's harder to find detectors for sulfur dioxide, too.

vswingfield · 10-24-2012, 04:30 PM

Gosh Protagonist,

You're completely ignoring the pleasure of paying $2,573 for the 88DU Diesel Stove Kit. That's really elite for a little two burner cooktop.

Protagonist · 10-24-2012, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vswingfield

Gosh Protagonist,

You're completely ignoring the pleasure of paying $2,573 for the 88DU Diesel Stove Kit. That's really elite for a little two burner cooktop.

Was I too critical of the product?

I'm sure it's a fine product— and for that price it had better be! I just don't see the point in having one. Unless you're one of those people who's afraid of exploding due to a propane leak. For them, a diesel stove would be essential, and worth every penny.

Or maybe if you live in the great frozen north, where it gets too cold for propane to vaporize properly.

SmokelessJoe · 10-24-2012, 05:24 PM

My “contemporized” 1976 Argosy is all diesel powered - hydronic heating, hot water and cooking - and I love it more than ever after 5 years.

The story, from genesis to completion, is pretty much told in this thread

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f287...r-23048-5.html

The arguments for doing it my way appear somewhere in the thread but post #67 will specifically show the cook top and it’s installation.

While I chose to go All Diesel in a TRAILER it can be even more easily done, and makes even more sense, in a diesel-powered coach.

Interstate, or any of its many competitors, could be offering a better performing, more efficient single-fuel option.

Sergei

Protagonist · 10-25-2012, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokelessJoe

Interstate, or any of its many competitors, could be offering a better performing, more efficient single-fuel option.

If the Interstate came from Jackson Center as all-diesel, that might be different. As it stands, to do a retrofit you'd be replacing a propane cooktop, propane water heater, propane furnace, and propane generator with diesel equivalents. Including running all new plumbing for the diesel lines because you can't reuse the propane lines for diesel. And adding a pressurization pump to get diesel from the tank to the appliances.

Cooktop and furnace are easy enough. There are direct equivalents in diesel. Some weight penalty, though, since the diesel appliances are heavier than the propane equivalents. They're probably also sturdier in exchange for the weight gain, though; they're made for heavier offshore service on boats.

I know they make diesel water heaters for boats, but do they make a combination diesel/electric version, to replace the Atwood propane/electric version, or would you have to use diesel water heating all the time?

You'd also be replacing the built-in propane tank with an auxiliary diesel tank because the Interstate's original 26-gallon diesel tank doesn't offer much reserve capacity if you plan to fuel a generator from it as well as fueling the engine.

Plus, you'd have to get rid of the external propane hose fitting to run your barbecue grill off the built-in propane tank you're getting rid of, and switch to a diesel barbecue grill. Do they even make those? Or your portable grill would need a separate portable propane tank, or you'd have to carry charcoal for your old-school grill.

I'm all in favor of innovation, but I don't see all-diesel as a good fit for an Interstate. I'd be thrilled if someone actually tried it and proved me wrong, but I won't be the one to experiment with it.

Lily&Me · 10-25-2012, 05:12 AM

I'm not understanding the advantage or draw for an all diesel unit, particularly a diesel stovetop??

Maggie

xrvr · 10-25-2012, 05:22 AM

I guess the draw is only one fuel source, no gasoline and no propane. personal preference, just like those who want all electric without the use of a generater and using an all electric car or tow vehicle. Jim

slowmover · 10-25-2012, 09:11 AM

Single fuel is also of interest to tow vehicle combinations. The problems as cited by Protagonist are evident. One has to very much want the higher quality and pay the higher price. And that would likely be the best bet in starting from zero.

The experience of SmokelessJoe is bookmarked in my files. I can't say at present that I would convert my [future] TT to all-diesel operation, but with 75 or 100 gals aboard the TV I find it worthwhile to do the research (as I don't think that RV standard appliances are of high enough quality for full-timing). All sorts of back-doors to reaching this point in research [threads like this one].

Equipping the TV with a propane tank (if feasible) can also allow a similar quality of diesel to go farther in the TV (not really higher mpg if understood) where propane can be a supplemental fuel. And then the TV is also a source of propane for the TT, giving increased "range" [time; nights aboard].

Some interesting intersections in the search for higher utility. It's all about assumptions, to some degree.

.

SmokelessJoe · 10-25-2012, 03:32 PM

I don’t think that anyone here, including the original poster, was advocating tearing up an Interstate to go all diesel. That wouldn’t make any sense.

Just like it wouldn’t if you were tearing up a new trailer to do it.

However, when you gut an old trailer and start anew you can test any idea you care to.

Its fascinating to note, however, that Airstream (and all the many other conversion builders in North America) are taking one of the most advanced and best selling diesel vehicles in the world, the Mercedes Sprinter, and filling it with the same ordinary, mostly junky appliances and systems that go into cheap SOB trailers.

Between the time I started to research the WALLAS cook top and actually bought one, the giant German firm WEBASTO had acquired the rights to the American RV market. I may have been their first sale.

Googling my Indel water heater just now I find that the Italian made product is also sold under the Webasto brand now.

Indel Webasto Marine - Isotemp Water Heaters - Robust & High Quality Marine Heating Solutions

The reason may be simple. In many parts of the word, like Australia and several European countries, RV manufacturing is much advanced over America and all-diesel motor homes are a long time reality.

Incidentally, an all diesel motor home wouldn’t work as Protagonist, engineer or not, describes it.

Hot coolant from the Mercedes engine would most likely feed the heat exchanger/water heater (which is also electric) and 12v coolant- fed fan units would heat the space, essentially the same way the driver’s cab is heated now.

An tiny unit like the Webasto TSL in my trailer, 6 inches by 4 inches by 9 inches and weighing 7 pounds, would heat the coolant when the truck motor was turned off.

There would need to be only one tank as the cook top and TSL furnace virtually sip fuel and have their own built in pumps.

There is one manufacturer of an all-diesel camping vehicle in America that I know of:

EarthRoamer » XV-LT

This is an expensive Expedition Vehicle so no direct comparison should probably be made but looking at their site will show you how much can be realized by doing things differently.

They don’t even use a generator as they say that a modern truck diesel can drive TWO alternators at idle - using less fuel than an Onan generator – which, with an advanced battery pak and inverter system, can even power an air conditioner.

Sergei

slowmover · 10-26-2012, 04:52 AM

Thanks, Sergei.

Yes, an older TT allows plenty of Imaginative Space (and might just correspond to the amount of dust in my wallet at any moment).

.

wayneskid · 10-26-2012, 07:59 AM

Re. Earthroamer: Wow! Really nice looking rig!! But pricing of "$233K to over $400K" puts it beyond what I'd be willing to spend. The CFO of the house wasn't exactly pleased at the $90K I spent on the Interstate

Protagonist · 10-26-2012, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokelessJoe

Incidentally, an all diesel motor home wouldn’t work as Protagonist, engineer or not, describes it.

I wasn't trying to engineer an all-diesel vehicle. Since I camp in my Interstate for a week at a time without ever starting the main engine, it never occurred to me that a heat exchanger off the main engine could provide heat for the water heater or furnace. Not sure I'd want to run my main engine all the time while camping, either. But my preferences and preconceptions are immaterial to the concept, so never mind that.

I think it's more likely that we would see hybrid RVs, where the main engine is replaced by electric motors direct-connected at the wheel hubs, the generator is under the hood, and all appliances are electric-only. The generator (most likely diesel) could run all the time, or be electronically controlled to come on only when battery power falls below a certain level.