Considering Ordering 2018 Interstate Grand Touring

[AI927]

TayarTravel,

Thanks for the response to my question. I could not find the drawer style freezer in the NovaKool website either. I wanted to get the current draw specs to do a little theoretical calculations on how long the batteries would last.

From what I remember reading on this forum the solar charge controller may let the batteries get down to 85% charge before it kicks in. If the "sun goes down" at the wrong time it appears to me you might already have lost almost a third of you usable battery capacity. You could start the night out at 85% charge. If you don't want to go lower that 50% charge this leave you with only 35% of the total battery energy capacity to use.

It appears to me even with 300 watts of solar panels in the 2018 models there might be problems going through the night on batteries alone. If you are camping where you might need the furnace at night this would make the situation even worse due to the relatively large current draw for the furnace blower.

Thanks for everyone's comments.

[TayaraTravel]

Originally Posted by AI927

TayarTravel, Thanks for the response to my question. …

You are going through much of the same ground as I have. I bought my 2017 in April this year.

>>I wanted to get the current draw specs to do a little theoretical calculations on how long the batteries would last.

First, be sure to review http://www.airforums.com/forums/f240...ur-136062.html which has a wealth of info.

I point you in particular to McRider's post 0f 5-14-2017 http://www.airforums.com/forums/f240...ml#post1949787 The excellent PDF file contains estimates of various power draws. I am following his plan in the near future to upgrade my electrics. You may wish to review his other posts in the topic.

>>From what I remember reading on this forum the solar charge controller may let the batteries get down to 85% charge before it kicks in. If the "sun goes down" at the wrong time it appears to me you might already have lost almost a third of you usable battery capacity.

That is my understanding. In my limited boondocking trials, I ran the Onan and/or the chassis engine in the evening to try to bring the level back up near 100%. Here is a battery log from one night. Charge level % reported by the Atkinson Solar Explorer (not reliable). Voltages are from the Magnum (reliable)

0822pm: 100% 12.8v
1000pm: 90% 12.5v
1130pm: 80% 12.3v
0115am: 75% 12.3v
0320am: 70% 12.1v
0530am: 70% 12.1v
"": 65% 12.0v
0600am 65% 12.1v Outside temp 57F


>>It appears to me even with 300 watts of solar panels in the 2018 models there might be problems going through the night on batteries alone.

You need to change the solar controller and add more batteries to really boondock, as McRider has done. But even with just the 300w you may be better off than me, because as the sun weakens later in the day you can still run off solar before tapping into the battery. It should give you an extra margin of safety. (This is just a guess.)

>>If you are camping where you might need the furnace at night this would make the situation even worse

Probably a deal breaker. I think the blower takes a lot of current.

[c21]

DISCOUNT: What kind of discount should I expect to see ordering this unit? Reading through the forum I saw people stating from around 15% up to 22-24%. Is this the typical range?

The markup from dealer cost on AI's is 30%. (most rv's are 40%). To calculate dealer cost, subtract the delivery charge from MSRP then divide the remainder by 1.3. Next add the delivery charge back in. That will get you very close to dealer cost. From there I would try to negotiate a deal at around 4 to 5% over cost. Dealers do have incentives to move stuff off the floor but there are also advantages to the dealer in doing a factory order for a customer too. Often a dealer will get a kickback from Airstream on prior year models and that's an amount that's virtually impossible to find out. (keep in mind, markup from dealer cost is not the same as discount from MSRP).

Bill

[AI927]

c21bill, Thanks for the details on dealer cost. I did not know what it was for the Airstream Interstate.

TayaraTravel, Thanks for the additional information. The PDF does have a lot of information. Good point about the 300w solar delaying going to battery power.

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by TayaraTravel

How are you measuring %charge? My recent experience was that the Atkinson reported in the range of 60% remaining after overnight, but the voltage was down to 12.0v on the Atkinson and Magnum. The depletion curves for the LifeLine show 12.0v corresponds to 50% discharged at an 8 hour rate, or 60% discharged (40% remaining) at the 20hr rate. So I took the voltage reading to be more meaningful, and assumed I was at or even a bit beyond the safe discharge limit. I'm still learning all this stuff, so if I misunderstand the theory, please correct me.

FYI, outside temps were in the 50-60F, we were conserving our use of power except for the refrigerator. No inverter usage. We failed to turn off the LPG switch, and I'd do that if I were trying again.

I'm measuring SOC based on voltage readings provided by the Magnum. I think it's pretty accurate. I compared that to the DOD vs. load chart provided by Lifeline (since the batteries are under load when I check them). I typically saw 12.2v in the morning, once I saw 12.1v, once or twice 12.3v. This is with house power on (of course), fridge on, using some lights in the evening, using the water pump, using the fans (bath plus Fantastic) as needed, charging devices like my iPad and 2 iPhones, and my cell booster on 24/7 (oh, and LP was OFF...I only turn that on when I need it, then turn it off again...this is mainly for safety reasons). Also, the period of time I was running on batteries was about 12hrs (roughly 8pm - 8am).

Originally Posted by AI927

FlyFishinRVr,

Thanks for the response and all your contributions to this forum. I had read your "8 days of boondocking" before and reread it again this morning. You provided a lot of great information there. Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't your unit (lounge) have a smaller refrigerator/freezer than the GT model? From what I could find out it appears to me some GT models have a large refrigerator and separate large freezer that are really 2 separate units and 2 separate compressors.

It appears to me the newer (late 2017 and 2018) GT models are supplied with a smaller drawer freezer. TayaraTravel's post seems to confirm this.

With all of this said if the Lounge units get down to 50% charge or less overnight I would think the GT models would even get lower due to the size of the refrigerator/freezer.

Thanks again for your response and contributions.

I don't know what fridge is in the newer GT's. Sorry about that. If it has a larger fridge than the Lounge, check the make/model listed on the inside of the door and then check the specs on the manufacturer's web site. I think the unit in the Lounge pulls 2.2A when the compressor is running, but how often it runs is completely dependent on ambient temps. On our last trip, temps ran from mid 50's to over 100. At night, we had 70's in the warmer spots and 50's in the cooler ones.

[TayaraTravel]

Originally Posted by FlyFishinRVr

I'm measuring SOC based on voltage readings provided by the Magnum. I think it's pretty accurate. I compared that to the DOD vs. load chart provided by Lifeline (since the batteries are under load when I check them). I typically saw 12.2v in the morning, once I saw 12.1v, once or twice 12.3v. ....

Thanks. I also used the Magnum voltage readout and was seeing about 12.0-12.1v in the early AM. If this is the chart you mean, it looks like I was at least 50% discharged. So I think either the GT is using more amps, or maybe my batteries have an issue. They were new from the Airstream factory in April.

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by TayaraTravel

Thanks. I also used the Magnum voltage readout and was seeing about 12.0-12.1v in the early AM. If this is the chart you mean, it looks like I was at least 50% discharged. So I think either the GT is using more amps, or maybe my batteries have an issue. They were new from the Airstream factory in April.

Yes, that's the chart I use.

I think my new solar controller has a lot to do with the overall health of my batteries. I have it programmed to Float charge at 13.4v, and basically provide a charge any time there's sunshine. This is very different from what the Atkinson did.

Also, from what I've seen, when plugged into shore power and set to the default of AGM-1, if I remember right the Magnum Float charges at 13.1v. This is a bit low for our Lifeline batteries which want to be Floated at 13.4v at 70*, and higher as the temp goes down. It seems many people who maintain their rigs on shore power are doing so in a garage of some kind where it may be pretty cool, so I wonder if this is causing the problem that some people are having with their batteries not lasting through the night. I've also heard Airstream isn't always (ever?) connecting the battery temp probe to the Magnum, so this could be adding to the problem.

[coasttocoast]

Hi Boxter 1971,
Thanks for the input, and please tell me more about this solar controller you are talking about. What exactly am I replacing, and how do I do it? What are the benefits?
thx
Coast to Coast

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by coasttocoast

Hi Boxter 1971,
Thanks for the input, and please tell me more about this solar controller you are talking about. What exactly am I replacing, and how do I do it? What are the benefits?
thx
Coast to Coast

The benefit of upgrading to a quality solar controller is getting the proper three stage charge that your batteries need to get fully charged, especially if you have 300 watts of solar panels. The stock Atkinson "Sun Explorer" controller just does not fully charge the batteries no matter how many panels you have.

There are many good controllers on the market. I got the BlueSky unit as that was best available from AM Solar at the time. AM Solar now also sells the Victron BlueSolar system.

Here is the BlueSky solar controller I installed with kit from AM Solar that included all the components and wires.
http://amsolar.com/rv-controller-system-harness/30s-sig-mpp-25a

http://www.blueskyenergyinc.com/products/details/solar-boost-2512i-hv-2512ix-hv

I upgraded the wiring from the solar panel on roof to the controller box, but others have just used the wires installed by Airstream. Either way would work, but upgrading to larger wires helps improve performance. I also added a shunt, part of kit, to accurately measure the current (Amps) going into and out of my batteries. That allows you to really track and know the State of Charge (SOC) of your batteries. The voltage method is not that accurate unless the batteries are totally disconnected from all loads.

Here is my thread with details on my solar upgrade.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f240/solar-panels-on-rhino-racks-153337.html

… and here is my thread on upgrading my batteries and inverter/charger.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f240/battery-and-inverter-upgrade-142327.html

You also should read the excellent thread by FlyFishinRVr on upgrading to a Renogy Commander MPPT (Maximum Power Point Tracking) controller.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f240/upgrading-the-solar-charge-controller-from-atkinson-to-mppt-166498.html

… and his thread on 8 days of boondocking.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f240/8-days-of-boondocking-in-our-2017-ai-a-report-of-our-shakedown-trip-169649.html

Hope this helps,

[Titus]

I upgraded to a Blue Sky solar controller, after I had added the Magnum BMK and associated shunt. I used the same shunt for the Blue Sky state of charge. Really no reason to have two SOC monitors - but the good news is that they agree.

Note that you have to run all ground current through the shunt for it to be accurate. The alternator negative terminal is the chassis ground. You need to isolate the negative coach battery terminal from the chassis, and instead run the chassis ground to the shunt. If you don't do this then the charging that is done by the engine does not get counted.

[don000]

Originally Posted by AI927

FYI I looked up the amount of manual adjustment with the air ride system and it appears you can raise the unit by about one inch or lower it up to about 2.4 inches.

That might be so at the axle, but with my 2017 Lounge EXT, the drop in height of the rear bumper is approximately 6".

Re your original question, the manual control for the air suspension has a parking brake interlock, so manual adjustment while the vehicle is in motion is not possible. However, you can start moving from a manually-set position. An alarm will sound and the system will take perhaps 10-15 seconds to return to normal driving position. I've found that this is sufficient time to clear obstacles.

[AI927]

don000,

Thanks for the info, especially about driving it a short way (time) with it raised. I did check you correct the amount it can be raised or lowered is at the axle.

[coasttocoast]

Hi Boxster1971,
Thanks for the information. The 2016 is my first time to the rodeo, so I'm still getting my feet wet. I'm very mechanical and have an awesome set of tools; however, I still need to do some more homework.

So here is another puzzle I'm working on. I'm an old photographer who likes to take the road less travelled, and I drive until I see something photo worthy. The small size of the van makes it navigable enough so that I can make quick turn arounds to get a shot, but not always. Sometimes I pull into a city and drive and park and drive and park, etc. A better solution may be to get an electric scooter/rover where I can pull into a city, park, and start to explore more territory. The problem is that I currently have no place to carry the rover given that my hitch-mounted cargo box contains my two Yamaha generators/hoses, etc. Check out the Works Electric Hollyburn P5 and please tell me what you think. I might consider coming up with another hitch platform and book campgrounds in advance. Then I could leave the generators behind. Thanks.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by coasttocoast

A better solution may be to get an electric scooter/rover where I can pull into a city, park, and start to explore more territory. The problem is that I currently have no place to carry the rover given that my hitch-mounted cargo box contains my two Yamaha generators/hoses, etc. Check out the Works Electric Hollyburn P5 and please tell me what you think. I might consider coming up with another hitch platform and book campgrounds in advance. Then I could leave the generators behind. Thanks.

There doesn't seem to be any reason why you couldn't just carry the scooter inside the van. All you would need is a portable ramp to load it in and out. It would be in your way if you had to get up and move around while you're driving— or rather if a passenger had to— but once you park in a campground, it could be stored outside on the ground, locked to the hitch receiver's safety chain loops.

[TayaraTravel]

Originally Posted by coasttocoast

... A better solution may be to get an electric scooter/rover ...

Have you considered one of the electric bicycles? They might have enough range for you to explore locally. Would be light and easy to carry either inside the van or on a hitch carrier.

[coasttocoast]

i found some motorcycle carrier type ramps on line that attach via the receiver. with a little research, something like this might work. thanks