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Old 09-23-2016, 03:35 PM   #29
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There's no need for bio diesel now. It's all pc stuff.
You are 100% correct. Bio-diesel mandates are just corn growing state politics to prop up corn prices in states like Minnesota and Illinois where 20% bio-diesel is mandated.
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Old 09-23-2016, 06:29 PM   #30
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You are 100% correct. Bio-diesel mandates are just corn growing state politics to prop up corn prices in states like Minnesota and Illinois where 20% bio-diesel is mandated.
Soybeans ===> biodiesel

Corn ===> ethanol
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Old 09-24-2016, 12:56 AM   #31
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Incorrect. Check the biomass industry fueled by environmentalists who cut down trees for fuel rather than use gas or coal.see the multimillion dollar biomass plant in Gainesville Florida for example. Sits idle now because the power produced is too expensive to sell, as well as burning up tons of biomass, trees, etc. all because of the environmentalists in the local govt. We could of had clean coal or gas instead.
I was in referring to biofuel mandates in Minnesota, not Florida. I have no idea what they do there, although Florida, I don't believe, has any mandate.

And yes, there are subsidies that push biofuel imposed when oil was not in such a large supply, and is ridiculous to continue to do so. Politics, more than environmentalists, are, however, the main reason for biofuel mandates, at least in Minnesota.

In any event, it is why I will never travel in or through that state.
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Old 09-24-2016, 04:29 AM   #32
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Interesting comments, what a mess this country is in. I respect you for your travel plans.
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Old 09-24-2016, 04:36 AM   #33
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Does anyone actually check what they're stating as fact beforehand?

Minnesota in 2002 mandated 2%, in 2014 the mandate went to 10% (during the summer months only) they are shooting for 20% in 2018.

So currently it is 10% April thru September and 5% October thru March

http://www.mda.state.mn.us/renewable...biodiesel.aspx
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Old 09-24-2016, 04:47 AM   #34
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So there is a mandate? Yes!
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Old 09-24-2016, 05:07 AM   #35
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So there is a mandate? Yes!
Researching a little further, I would recommend avoiding fueling up in Iowa too, seems they have a tax incentive for stations to use 11% or higher.

And those traveling to Canada seem to be fairly safe.

Renewable Fuels Standards, by Province

British Columbia 5% ethanol 4 percent RD. BC also has an LCFS (10% carbon intensity reduction by 2010 a la California, with projected ethanol and RD increases to approx. 10% and 10% by 2020 respectively)

Alberta 5% ethanol 2% RD.

Saskatchewan 7.5% ethanol, 2% RD

Manitoba 8.5% ethanol 2% RD

Ontario 5% ethanol, 2% RD en route to RD3 in 2016, RD4 in 2017. Physical volume requirements are reduced if average carbon intensity of RD exceeds minimum reduction requirements. Most biodiesel and HVO exceed the minimum GHG reduction requirements, which go from 30% in 2015 to 70% for 2017 and onward
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Old 09-24-2016, 05:15 AM   #36
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Good info. Thanks for taking the effort.
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Old 09-24-2016, 09:11 AM   #37
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Bio diesel

This has been yet another awesome and informative thread on this forum. I continue to be impressed and very thankful for everyone's input and thoughtful comments. As a newbie owner (long time camper and renter) it is much appreciated!

Re. mandates by states, are you saying that those states that have them will ONLY carry that blend? I ask because I live in CA and as far as I'm aware, the mandates here say they will make certain fuels available by certain dates, but they will continue to produce and offer existing fuels because the public has finally woken up and said enough. Once the mandates started exceeding the vehicle manufacturers limits of what they would warranty, the runaway train came to a halt. The big fight right now in the state is around E15. The govt and groups that will profit from E15 production and sale are of course saying there's no problem. The public came along and shoved 100s of documents from vehicle manufacturers in their faces that said E15 will void their engine warranties. The next move by the govt was to say they would have a separate grade listed on the pump so people can choose (regular, mid-grade, super, and E15, and at some stations a separate pump for E85). All solved right? Oops! Not so fast guys. The public brought up the inconvenient fact that what goes in your tank on a "shared" hose can be as much as 5 gallons of whatever the last guy pumped. For a motorcycle, that means potentially a full tank of "whatever". Last I looked into it that's where things have stalled.

Back on point re. diesel, the pumps here say something like "may contain up to 5% bio mass" on the diesel 2 pumps. I don't pay attention to any of the other diesel pumps as that doesn't pertain to me, but given the govt mandate that anything over 5% has to be clearly marked as such, I'm not too concerned about accidentally pumping B20 into my rig.

Going forward, thanks to the info in this thread, I'm going to keep a watchful eye out for any pumps that offer B5 and B20 at the same pump and if I find one like that, I'll move on and buy somewhere else. My rig was too expensive to risk a major engine problem because some "special interest groups" are trying to fatten their wallets, especially at my expense......
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Old 09-24-2016, 09:34 AM   #38
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I would respectfully contend that it's facile to rail against "special interest groups" as if they were the villains. Anyone in business has a responsibility to their investors, employees and community to maximize profits within the limits of the law. The multiple fiascos of biofuels arise from the sad manner in which we are governed: by leaders without responsible leadership, catering to ill-informed political/aesthetic preferences rather than technical or economic good sense.

The morass of state "feel good" mandates on biofuels are probably most comprehensively compiled here: http://www.afdc.energy.gov/laws/state. Minnesota is the worst, but Washington and Oregon are not far behind. Iowa appears to allow choice by using tax incentives rather than an outright mandate.
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Old 09-24-2016, 09:46 AM   #39
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Soybeans ===> biodiesel

Corn ===> ethanol

Yes! Thanks for the clarification. I just got stuck on the politics of these bio-fuels.


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Old 09-24-2016, 09:51 AM   #40
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Regarding the "blender pump" issue where different grades utilize the same fill hose, various sources suggest that the residual volume in a modern pump is at most 0.5 gallons (e.g. http://ethanolrfa.org/wp-content/upl...-Procedure.pdf).

Thus if your fill-up is 20 gallons and the pumps dispenses both B20 and B5, and if B20 was dispensed before you purchased B5, you would be putting approximately B5.38 in your tank.

Self-evidently, make your fill-ups as large as possible to get what you want. Too bad for motorcyclists.
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Old 09-24-2016, 10:34 AM   #41
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Anyone in business has a responsibility to their investors, employees and community to maximize profits within the limits of the law.

I respectfully disagree. When individuals or groups of individuals see it as "ok" to "maximize their profits" to the detriment of others, they are indeed villains, regardless of whether their actions are within legal limits or not. Martin Shkreli (Retrophin), Elizabeth Holmes (Theranos), and Heather Bresch (Mylan), just to name a few, are all prime examples of "legal" behavior (in quotes because all are still being investigated) that puts profit in front of anything else. I would argue that Shkreli in particular is the embodiment of a villain in every sense of the word.......
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Old 09-24-2016, 11:27 AM   #42
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I respectfully disagree. When individuals or groups of individuals see it as "ok" to "maximize their profits" to the detriment of others, they are indeed villains, regardless of whether their actions are within legal limits or not. Martin Shkreli (Retrophin), Elizabeth Holmes (Theranos), and Heather Bresch (Mylan), just to name a few, are all prime examples of "legal" behavior (in quotes because all are still being investigated) that puts profit in front of anything else. I would argue that Shkreli in particular is the embodiment of a villain in every sense of the word.......
Of course. Prices should be set by the government, who else would be able to say what's fair ? We wouldn't want any profits accruing to the detriment of others. Political decisions are surely better than allowing markets to function.

Which brings us back to biodiesel. Are there any opinions or experience with using fuel treatments to counter the adverse effects of biodiesel ? The MB biodiesel brochure is mute on this point.
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