An ordeal - Total AI bathroom teardown & remodel

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by bugsbunny

Pahaska, I have that same KOA soap holder both in the Interstate and at home! Works Great!

BUGSBUNNY - ours will definitely get good use in our home shower too

[WillieJ]

Originally Posted by Alex AVI

Day#2 - ROUND Makep mirror relocation

When one has 4 girls to make happy, makeup mirrors can not be removed. Only relocated. Once relocated, additional mirror(S) had to be installed later inside bath. Finding convenient locations that would also be at optimal for doing makeup at their 5'5" average heights is challenging and giving up the only counter space we had was not an option. UNTIL I opened up the overheads. Then light bulbs turned on.

Overhead above countertop with wiring compartment was the perfect spot.
Attachment 322269

Makeup mirror can articulate down to perfect level.
Attachment 322270

Rubber bumpers prevent scratching cabinet surface and rattling when in stowed position
Attachment 322271

Now in stowed position.
Attachment 322272

There are 3 (Yes, THREE) new mirrors going inside bath. The 1st one is done. Needed to go to local glass shop to cut the perfect oblong to fit inside porthole. This provides a door mirror usable inside bath or when door is open to aisle. And slso blocks light from shining out to galley when we leave bath light on at night while sleeping. Darkens the area, yet enough light seeps through door seams which illuminates door location and latch nicely but very dimly.

Attachment 322273
Attachment 322274

Are you using tempered glass for the mirror in the door, or any of your new mirrors?

[Alex AVI]

7Day#3 - Mirror, mirror on the wall - Right across the mirrored door. All wet towels on the floor - Dry them up the mirrored wall

- Mirror #2 cut & mounted. Had to use an acrylic mirror due to the curvature of the wall and the install location being close to arm/elbow level. Versus the tempered glass used in the door porthole which is away from accidental hits and it will have added clear Lexan protection when door is re-installed (more on this later). Corners are 7/8" radiused.


- The wall is not flat. It actually has no single flat spot. It has a complex & wavy descending & lateral curvature. So, it requires a lot of tweaking . You can see this in the pics. This is not the final install. I already have a backing-base made to compensate and rids 99% of the distortion. But I have not had the time to put marine finish on it and remove mirror again to re-mount. I am thinking to just use thin teak moldings shaved to curve or some extra scrap white PCB so I don't have to worry about any finish. This minor redo for a later time. The reflection distortion is only obvious when seen from outside bath, over 4 ft. away. My wife commented when inside doing her makeup, there is no noticeable distortion. Still, I want it perfect from every angle, soooo . . .


- The mirror adds a different texture to the bland f-glass while visually adding the illusion of spaciousness. FYI - this is not the 2cu. ft. of recovered space I am talking about. That's a different section and later day.


- That retracting AI rope-a-dope clothesline is just not a great solution for us, not to mention poorly located. For one, the lightest towel will sag it. And the location blocks the door if multiple items are up there. What to do, relocate and replace with stiffer retractable drying rack that has more linear feet of usable line on the C/S wall.
- This is a LEIFHEIT European made retractable drying rack. My wife bought this when she was in EU few years ago before we even thought of an rv. It was supposed to be installed in the rear of our minivan but turned out to be too large for the space we wanted it on. Lucky we kept it around.


- It can now be sourced at many local places like IKEA, Container Store. Orderable from Amazon.
- It has the equivalent of 11.8 ft. of linear clothesline from the 6 drying rods. Pic below shows all rods pulled out.


- The rods are stiff enough to hold even the heaviest water soaked beach towel. We have tried and tested, even during a moving AI. Pic below shows all rods pushed in.


- Because I chose to take advantage of the upward slope of wall and mount on a slight downward angle, then it naturally stays in extended position when clothes are hung. Even when AI is moving, the clothes stay separated and don't retract on it's own. Pic below entire assembly retracted flush onto C/S wall.


- But when in full retracted position, it still stays in locked position. Not shown, but I still use velcro when retracted so grandson can't play with it. He is now at an age where pulling, pushing, tinkering with all sorts of things mechanical intrigues and stimulates his brain.


At this point in the teardown, wife and daughters are finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, realizing it was worth the sporadic loss of shower use to get their needs met.

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by Pahaska

The bare wall over the toilet backs up into the area of the semi-useless pocket. By removing the liner of the pocket, I have a useful depth of about 6" to work with. The cabinet can be about 14" high and 8+" wide. I will cut the required openings and use a plastic tub for the chest, with shelves as required to give us each a space and maybe a low space at the top for medicine bottles. For a cover, I will use an oversize hinged sheet of Lexan. .

JOHN - your MY might be a better candidate for the Nest meds cabinet than mine. I wanted it, but upon realizing I did not have the needed depth on back wall and not be able to flush mount all the way, I abandoned that idea. If it works for you due to the 6" depth, it is way cool having the TP holder inside

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by WillieJ

Are you using tempered glass for the mirror in the door, or any of your new mirrors?

WILLIEJ - Went to glass shop for the tempered glass oblong mirror. That will have entire sheet of Lexan protecting it. The 2 that are completely exposed inside the bath are Acrylic mirror. I wanted those to be safer than tempered.

[wachuko]

Alex, how my imagination just goes to weird places... when I saw you removing all the stuff and even taking out the door... I thought you were going to cut into the wall and make some additional and radical changes.

I imagined you completely removing the sink and building a small/narrow profile sink... gel coating everything so that it looked factory and increasing the space inside the bathroom.

Pardon the rough sketch...

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by wachuko

Alex, how my imagination just goes to weird places... when I saw you removing all the stuff and even taking out the door... I thought you were going to cut into the wall and make some additional and radical changes.

I imagined you completely removing the sink and building a small/narrow profile sink... gel coating everything so that it looked factory and increasing the space inside the bathroom.

Pardon the rough sketch...

WACHUKO - your imagination was not far off. I did investigate that. And replace with larger flipdown sink. But that was too much destruction to do with very little return on space. Still need space for the plumbing & wiring inside (see pics). Just no easy way around it, sink pipe, vent pipe, waterlines, splitter cables, Firefly & OHC LED cabling. And I would've only gained length which was not as critical as the width. But I did gain width - 2" worth. You will see on my next post, trying to select pics that will show it clearly.

BTW - I am not putting the hot water recirc system until one that does not use the fresh water tank as its recovery tank. In a way, the older system with its own tank would've worked better. Just like on my stick house recirc system. Much easier to plumb.

[txntravlr]

Alex - what did you use to mount the Leifheit rack? (I actually have one of those laying around I had bought for a rental condo, but decided renters would destroy!) I don’t know exactly what lurks beyond the fiberglass in the bath, so have yet to be brave enough to drill into it!

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by txntravlr

Alex - what did you use to mount the Leifheit rack? (I actually have one of those laying around I had bought for a rental condo, but decided renters would destroy!) I don’t know exactly what lurks beyond the fiberglass in the bath, so have yet to be brave enough to drill into it!

TXNTRAVLR - The LEIFHEIT rack is mounted with 2 SS screws that go through TOGGLER anchors on the fiberglass. First, after removing the 3-compartment soap dispenser, I had the existing 4 holes to fish thin wiring and get a feel for any lateral & vertical obstruction. After many minutes of doing that and not getting any "bites" or "snags", I then used my Fluke temp gun & handheld thermal image cam that I borrowed from a friend who works for water district. I did this just to confirm location of black & grey vents - after chilling the rv overnight with A/C in full blast, then filling the black & grey water with hot water - the thermal image confirms that those vent pipes are where the AI manual says they are. Then opened up the access door under rear tv and stuck an automotive mini-cam probe I borrowed from an auto mechanic friend just to confirm again no obstructions there. Even did the physical fish wire test again from the acess door location.

It's pretty safe back there for my MY 2018 - YMMV. But even without the hi-tech tools, the careful wire fishing would've been enough for me. The most important thing is drill holes in progressive sizes, start with smallest bit, then step-up 1 bit at a time and put a depth lock on drill so you don't punch through. Check behind hole after every bit. And I followed AS practice of cutting the pointed tips of the screws they used inside for mounting into f-glass.

AS did not use anchors, just screwed direct into f-glass for support. I bored a bigger hole so I can use TOGGLER plastic anchors for maximum support, to make sure the rack can support the weight of multiple heavy wet towels.

[txntravlr]

Originally Posted by Alex AVI

TXNTRAVLR - The LEIFHEIT rack is mounted with 2 SS screws that go through TOGGLER anchors on the fiberglass. First, after removing the 3-compartment soap dispenser, I had the existing 4 holes to fish thin wiring and get a feel for any lateral & vertical obstruction. After many minutes of doing that and not getting any "bites" or "snags", I then used my Fluke temp gun & handheld thermal image cam that I borrowed from a friend who works for water district. I did this just to confirm location of black & grey vents - after chilling the rv overnight with A/C in full blast, then filling the black & grey water with hot water - the thermal image confirms that those vent pipes are where the AI manual says they are. Then opened up the access door under rear tv and stuck an automotive mini-cam probe I borrowed from an auto mechanic friend just to confirm again no obstructions there. Even did the physical fish wire test again from the acess door location.

It's pretty safe back there for my MY 2018 - YMMV. But even without the hi-tech tools, the careful wire fishing would've been enough for me. The most important thing is drill holes in progressive sizes, start with smallest bit, then step-up 1 bit at a time and put a depth lock on drill so you don't punch through. Check behind hole after every bit. And I followed AS practice of cutting the pointed tips of the screws they used inside for mounting into f-glass.

AS did not use anchors, just screwed direct into f-glass for support. I bored a bigger hole so I can use TOGGLER plastic anchors for maximum support, to make sure the rack can support the weight of multiple heavy wet towels.

[emoji44]Well, I’m not a good fisher - let’s start with that! [emoji854] Next, my patience (& attention span) is obviously much shorter than yours — look, SQUIRREL!!! 🤣 I’m a bit more of a “let’s cut here and see if it’s right” kind of person - who the. Has to hire a professional to clean up the damage I caused when trying to fix something!

I think I’ll just leave the box in the closet and walk away... definitely more work than I was hoping to gain a little hang-dry space! [emoji851]

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by txntravlr

[emoji44]Well, I’m not a good fisher - let’s start with that! [emoji854] Next, my patience (& attention span) is obviously much shorter than yours — look, SQUIRREL!!! �� I’m a bit more of a “let’s cut here and see if it’s right” kind of person - who the. Has to hire a professional to clean up the damage I caused when trying to fix something!

I think I’ll just leave the box in the closet and walk away... definitely more work than I was hoping to gain a little hang-dry space! [emoji851]

TXNTRAVLR - You read my mind, I was originally gonna say, if you like to fish, sit long hrs. in the middle of a lake just waiting for 1 bite, then you get the feel for the wire-fishing behind the f-glass. Then I just realized you have the GT meaning the bath is on the R/S, the same side where a little more wiring also goes through. Compared to my Lounge where minimal wiring is on that side. I only have to worry about the Firefly panel, overhead compartment led wiring, power vent, tv coax & splitter.

But you should at least check. It may be an easier task for GT. Unfortunately, not sure anyone here has drilled as many new screw holes as I did in their GT bath to be able to help us. You may be the 1st GT to do so, and me the 1st Lounge. A little patience goes a long way, more than just skill. Yeah on this one, it's measure 10x, check 5x, and still hope I only need to cut 1X and not cut something else.

[VAtom]

I am going to try VHB tape. If you can use it to attached solar panels to the roof, then it's a good first try experiment

https://www.leifheit.co.uk/fileadmin...eitung-001.pdf

https://www.amazon.com/3M-Tape-RP25-...vhb+tape&psc=1

[wachuko]

Originally Posted by VAtom

I am going to try VHB tape. If you can use it to attached solar panels to the roof, then it's a good first try experiment

https://www.leifheit.co.uk/fileadmin...eitung-001.pdf

https://www.amazon.com/3M-Tape-RP25-...vhb+tape&psc=1

I used left over VHB tape to hold the shelf structure in place while I marked/drill the holes... I almost left it with just that... could not remove it... ended up undoing the supports, leaving the top rail in place and drilled the additional holes I needed then... so yeah, VHB tape should do the trick just fine

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by VAtom

I am going to try VHB tape. If you can use it to attached solar panels to the roof, then it's a good first try experiment

Originally Posted by wachuko

I used left over VHB tape to hold the shelf structure in place while I marked/drill the holes... I almost left it with just that... could not remove it... ended up undoing the supports, leaving the top rail in place and drilled the additional holes I needed then... so yeah, VHB tape should do the trick just fine

VATOM - Yes, I think VHB would work. I think the 3M automotive exterior moulding tape would work too. I only hesitated to use it, because I read a couple of threads where their command tape un-mounted from the f-glass walls due to the extreme summer heat. But I think VHB would not. If anything, you just need to be very sure the location is exactly where you want to before you stick it on coz it will be very hard to remove. I suggest having someone hold it up, so you can spot from a distance if it looks ok. Maybe use a level, then mark a line with tape or pencil. Update us if it works well.

WACHUKO - funny you guys mentioned the solar. I was gonna pm you to ask what you used to mount the 4th solar panel. Getting parts ready for winter project. I did manage to find it in your "Journey" thread after going back thousands of posts. Boy, that thing is like an Encyclopedia of AS AI Mods & Upgrades. I would be clueless and spending many more hours without your docs. Thanks again!

[gmillerok1]

Originally Posted by Alex AVI

V...

WACHUKO - funny you guys mentioned the solar. I was gonna pm you to ask what you used to mount the 4th solar panel. ...

Clean the area around the mounting foot with alcohol and let it dry. Use VHB tape on the bottom of the foot (AMSolar feet comes with it already in place). Press hard and mount the foot, one at a time. After 24 hours, use blue tape around the foot in a square so the Sika221 will overlap the foot. Apply a think coat of Sika221 over the foot to the border of the tap. Remove the tape.

That's pretty much it. For my front panel, I used two extra feet on the front side back to back to make it even stronger. Properly applied, there's no way the panel will ever come off as the VHB tape plus the Sika221 probable would require over a ton of pressure to come off.

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by gmillerok1

Clean the area around the mounting foot with alcohol and let it dry. Use VHB tape on the bottom of the foot (AMSolar feet comes with it already in place). Press hard and mount the foot, one at a time. After 24 hours, use blue tape around the foot in a square so the Sika221 will overlap the foot. Apply a think coat of Sika221 over the foot to the border of the tap. Remove the tape.

That's pretty much it. For my front panel, I used two extra feet on the front side back to back to make it even stronger. Properly applied, there's no way the panel will ever come off as the VHB tape plus the Sika221 probable would require over a ton of pressure to come off.

GMILLEROK1 - As a rookie, glad I didn't have to figure this out myself. Your instructions make it easy enough. I kinda wondered how strong VHB really is in context of using for solar panel. But I figured it's being used widely for flex panels like mine, so it must be strong enough = a ton of pressure is amazing

[gmillerok1]

Originally Posted by Alex AVI

GMILLEROK1 - As a rookie, glad I didn't have to figure this out myself. Your instructions make it easy enough. I kinda wondered how strong VHB really is in context of using for solar panel. But I figured it's being used widely for flex panels like mine, so it must be strong enough = a ton of pressure is amazing

Well, it may be a bit less. But in my case, the tape alone in theory can handle 100 lbs per inch before it will shear, and adding the SikaFflex221 adds even more because that stuff is VERY difficult to remove. When I did my upgrade, I had to mechanically scrape Sikaflex off with a putty knife from various places, and frankly, it's very hard to do. For my front panel, I had 12 square inches, so that's around 1200 lbs of force with the tape alone. Not even hurricane Florence would bother it.

The back two panels have 800 lbs (2sq in. per foot) with the tape alone.

I'm sure if the feet were screwed in the screws would pull through the sheet metal if that much force was applied.

For what it is worth, this is how AMSolar does all their installs.

[Alex AVI]

Day#4 - Trapezoidal 3rd Mirror cut & installed

The 3rd mirror has been cut to size/shape. It is a trapezoidal shape to fit above the sink area. Minimal tweaking on this area as it is pretty flat to begin with. The hardest part is deciding at what angle to cut mirror to maximize area but not start to overlap the curved portion going up to the ceiling. It is an unusual cut but after I installed it, I am glad for it's weird shape because it adds visual interest in a small area. Big rule in interior decorating small spaces - K.I.S.S. + texture & shapes & mirrors. Acrylic mirror was used for max safety against breakage.


Faucet re-installed. This faucet is a residential gooseneck MOEN. This was chosen by my wife because it is the same line used in our previous house. It's materials, quality, & finish is so much better than the AI issued pullout. As a couple, we just hate pullouts because we had a bad experience. The pullout faucet eventually loosened from constant use inside the stem. The leaking caused big hidden damage to our master bath. So that was the very first thing to get removed from AI bath days after I took delivery. It does come with an external counter mounted pullout which we did not need to use here. So a call to MOEN and they supplied me with a custom plug to permanently disable the pullout line.


Overhead pics trying to show the overall effect of the 3-mirrors to enhancing the illusion of spaciousness inside when door is closed. I do not feel as claustrophobic inside anymore.


Door has been re-installed. The door is only supported by a skinny piano hinge with 5 screws each on the door side and frame side. They use 3/4" wood screws, which were already pulling out from just normal use of no more than 6 camping trips. At the rate its going, that whole thing would be off its hinges in less than a year. I tried to lengthen the screws to 1". Not grabbing good enough. So I went FULL LOCO on it and removed the hinge. Drilled another 12 holes total (6 on door, 6 on frame) . Then replaced the 3/4" & 1" screws with 1-1/4" screws.

CAUTION - Make sure the new screw holes are staggered on the opposing door/frame sides of hinge. Because there isn't much hinge thickness to work with, it is not possible to countersink screw holes to flush the screw head in the hole. Hence, if you don't stagger the holes, the screw heads will hit each other and impede door closing.


I then filled the screw holes with silicone glue and put a bead of the glue on both door side & frame side, then screwed hinge back on. Left AI parked and door hung supported in stationary position for 5 days before using to make sure glue set to max holding strength.


Now the easy part is over. The hardest & most time consuming part is yet to come, for me anyways because my fabricating skills are very crude at best. But I gained a lot during the acrylic mirror fabrication which gave me the courage for the next one, LEXAN & more acrylic/plexi fabrication . Gave me a chance to pull out my old Craftsman router, Dremmel scroll saw, and Dremmel rotary.

Gathering pics for that. Will try posting tonight/tomo.

[txntravlr]

Are you installing anything to use as “shower” since you replaced pull-out? I would like to replace our faucet but add a separate showering hose/mount.

[wachuko]

Look closely... faucet has a quick connect for shower head.