Airstream quality control

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by switz

And why did I just come into this room?

Because the door was open?

[dznf0g]

CHS either!

[dznf0g]

and my big one...

CFS

[cwf]

Can't remember something...CRS
Chicken Fried Steak.. CFS

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

and my big one...

CFS

Which I assume is like the "cabbage disease" - the stem can't hold the head up.

But maybe we should get back to the original topic, which is Airstream Quality Control…

My most recent Airstream issue was with the BIM. It quit working for no apparent reason, but tested fine. Turns out, when Mercedes replaced the chassis battery, they shorted out the BIM's contact in the battery box under the driver's footwell, and blew an in-line fuse I didn't know it had.

Not really an Airstream problem, rather a Mercedes problem, but I didn't know that until after I made a trip to the Airstream dealer to have a "defective" BIM checked out.

Something to remember for the future, since the BIM can never be shut off even when the main house disconnect is off, the circuit connecting the BIM to the chassis battery is always hot, even when the chassis battery disconnect by the accelerator pedal is pulled. Pull the BIM's in-line fuse before replacing the chassis battery!

[Steamy1]

I was running wire for back-up lights, and I opened a panel on the belly pan located curbside by the rear stabilizer jack. the panel was secured by eight screws. removed the panel and found left over debris from the factory, e.g., rivets, a bolt, plastic remnants, metal shavings, and dirt. This was on a new 2015 23FB. It is really discouraging how sloppy Airstream is when they manufacture their products. you would not see this in any automobile. It reminds me of a construction site where the workers throw their trash in between the walls and around the foundation. I thought they had finally purchased a shop vac at the recommendation of Forum members?!?!?!?

[weirdstuff]

Protag....how did you know your BIM quit working? Since we had our chassis battery replaced recently (the whole towing fiasco story), I'd like to know that they didn't short out the BIM's contact, like you said happened to you. So...how would I know? What are the symptoms?

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by weirdstuff

Protag....how did you know your BIM quit working? Since we had our chassis battery replaced recently (the whole towing fiasco story), I'd like to know that they didn't short out the BIM's contact, like you said happened to you. So...how would I know? What are the symptoms?

The BIM works by connecting the house and chassis systems when there's charging voltage from any source— shore power, generator, or engine alternator. I exclude the standard solar panel from the list because as charging sources go, that one is pretty anemic. Anyway, the BIM then disconnects the two systems when there's no charging voltage.

Coming back from Farmington, I stopped over for two days at my kid brother's house. No shore power, and 100% cloud cover the whole time, unusual for southwest Oklahoma. I left the fridge running, and the roof fans, while I was parked at his abode. Anyway, when I left his place, the house batteries were showing about 45% charge. Lower than I like, but not catastrophically so.

I thought the engine alternator would charge the house batteries while I was driving for six hours en route to my next stop, and if the BIM was working properly, it would have. Instead, when I arrived at Lake Bistineau State Park, the house system was stony dead, below 0% charge, meaning that no charging had occurred while I was driving. Hence, there must have been something wrong with the BIM, see?

[DHart]

Just finished our three day "shake down" trip with a new 2016 30' International Serenity and am pleased to report no problems with any of the systems and the fit, finish, and materials are everything I had hoped they would be. So far, at least, I'd give Airstream a BIG thumbs up for QUALITY! We're loving this great coach!

And the new truck we bought to pull the Airstream has turned out to be a perfect match for the 30' International.



2015 Sierra Denali HD 3/4 ton with Duramax/Allison. Pulling from 2400' to 5400', up the steepest grades toward Prescott, the Duramax work seemed effortless and coming back down those grades, the engine braking kept me from needing to touch the brake pedal at all. Trailer followed precisely with no complaints. All-in-all, stepping down from our 2011 44' diesel pusher motorcoach, we couldn't be happier with this combination of truck and trailer.

Smiles all around, for us.

[Wayne&Sam]

Addressing the title of this thread:

I just left The Mother Ship where we had some minor warranty work done. None were due to airstream workmanship but outsourced components. None were major.

This is the third or fourth time we've been there over the past 6 or 7 years. It's more convenient to stop there for service than to go to a dealer because of our traveling. This time there were noticeably fewer units there for service than our previous visits. Might that mean better quality control? Maybe. Maybe not.

The factory was noticeably busier, they are cranking out 60 or 80 trailers (I forget which) a week. But they haven't expanded the factory space yet. I believe I saw a post that claimed the expansion was to blame for a decrease in quality, so that argument is invalid.

Everyone working there was friendly, helpful and willing help you. Observing workers, they all appeared to be taking pride in their work and working carefully.

While cutting of materials is automated, assembly is incredibly labor intensive. Average built time is nine days and 300 man hours.

We are now stopped for the night near Elkhart, IN. , the rv Capitol of the world. None of the factories we've driven by look as complex as Airstream. They all look like small auto body shops from the outside. We haven't toured any of them, so that comment is really conjecture. But I do remember the leaks I had in our first non-airstream camper we had.



Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

[73shark]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

The BIM works by connecting the house and chassis systems when there's charging voltage from any source— shore power, generator, or engine alternator. I exclude the standard solar panel from the list because as charging sources go, that one is pretty anemic. Anyway, the BIM then disconnects the two systems when there's no charging voltage.

Coming back from Farmington, I stopped over for two days at my kid brother's house. No shore power, and 100% cloud cover the whole time, unusual for southwest Oklahoma. I left the fridge running, and the roof fans, while I was parked at his abode. Anyway, when I left his place, the house batteries were showing about 45% charge. Lower than I like, but not catastrophically so.

I thought the engine alternator would charge the house batteries while I was driving for six hours en route to my next stop, and if the BIM was working properly, it would have. Instead, when I arrived at Lake Bistineau State Park, the house system was stony dead, below 0% charge, meaning that no charging had occurred while I was driving. Hence, there must have been something wrong with the BIM, see?

Did you have to replace the batteries?

Also where is that BIM fuse that is critical?

[73shark]

Originally Posted by 73shark

Well during cleaning up from our recent Florida trip, I discovered that the curbside rear speaker no longer works. Checked the speaker and it's OK. Since the front ones work, I'm assuming that it's a wiring problem somewhere forward of the speaker cuz can just see the last couple of feet of wire. I'm open to any ideas on this.

Also the knob that raises the hood on the Maxxair fan no longer operates and initial investigation indicates the operator mechanism (P/N 10-20281k-3cf) is FUBAR. Will have to lift fan off mounting flange to get to it. It appears after an internet search that it's only available from Maxxair. Since the fan is about $200, I can only imagine how much this part will cost.

Stay tuned.

Not only was the operator mechanism shot but when taking the fan apart to get to it, I found that one of the arms on the lifter arm had broken off. It was also made from the same brittle die-cast pot-metal. While I could have repaired it, decided to replace since it was $12.

Also noticed that crazing was developing on the smoked hood where the mold sprue was cut off. First hailstorm will probably destroy it.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by 73shark

Did you have to replace the batteries?

So far, no. But I'm sure I've shortened their useful life, again. They'll do for now, but I wouldn't want to try boondocking with them.

Also where is that BIM fuse that is critical?

Inside the chassis battery box under the driver's footwell, so so I'm told. Or possibly in the driver's seat pedestal. The dealer already had everything sealed back up before I saw where it was, and I haven't mustered the curiosity to open it back up and look.

[Boxster1971]

Yes the fuse for the charging wire to the BIM is inside the Sprinter chassis battery box. I've had mine open a few times as I was contemplating upgrading to lithium batteries. But the wire on mine is only 4 gauge, not large enough to support charging a 400 AH lithium house battery. So I'll be staying with AGM batteries when I upgrade.


- - Mike
2013 Interstate Lounge EXT on 2012 Sprinter

[lewster]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

Yes the fuse for the charging wire to the BIM is inside the Sprinter chassis battery box. I've had mine open a few times as I was contemplating upgrading to lithium batteries. But the wire on mine is only 4 gauge, not large enough to support charging a 400 AH lithium house battery. So I'll be staying with AGM batteries when I upgrade.


- - Mike
2013 Interstate Lounge EXT on 2012 Sprinter

If you were to go with lithium house batteries, you would NOT want any charge from your engine battery (or BIM) anyway. They require a very specific voltage profile voltage for their charge cycle (which is NOT 3-stage) and any outside additional voltage would damage them.

In my lithium installations, there are only 2 charging sources, both of which are programmable: Blue Sky solar charge controllers and Magnum inverter/chargers.

I am especially careful to pull the fuse from the TV's charge line so that no power comes thru the 7-way umbilical into the lithium.

[73shark]

Originally Posted by lewster

If you were to go with lithium house batteries, you would NOT want any charge from your engine battery (or BIM) anyway. They require a very specific voltage profile voltage for their charge cycle (which is NOT 3-stage) and any outside additional voltage would damage them.

In my lithium installations, there are only 2 charging sources, both of which are programmable: Blue Sky solar charge controllers and Magnum inverter/chargers.

I am especially careful to pull the fuse from the TV's charge line so that no power comes thru the 7-way umbilical into the lithium.

Does that mean that the lithium house batteries are only charged from solar or shore power? Or can you connect the chassis battery to Magnum?

[Zybane]

Originally Posted by Denis4x4

There is an elephant in the room when it comes to AS quality and that is the fact that there is an almost cult like acceptance of a less than perfect product based on the reputation, history and unique style of an Airstream. The perceived value of an AS travel trailer is the best marketing tool Thor has!

As Joemikeb said, Quality must be engineered into the process and designed into the product and there has to be total commitment extending all the way from the CEO to the cleaning crew.

That is my largest concern. Am I spending $120K on a quality trailer or am I spending $120K on a cult following?

Originally Posted by switz

When I was installing 15" SenDel wheels with 15" Michelins to replace the stock 14" tires and wheels on the 23D, I found that the leading edge of the curb side wheel well was 2" longer than on the street side. I had to trim the skin metal and bend the wheel well frame so the tire would not rub on the skin metal. Obviously the chap working on the street side did not do the sheet metal work on the curb side or vice versa.

Both pieces of metal were pre-cut on a huge router table where the cutter head is computer programmed.

I saw similar "oversight" issue with a 2016 Airstream under the belly. I wonder if it is one of those "out of sight out of mind - don't care" things. I'd hate to see the hidden areas like above the liquid tanks and behind the cabinets. Probably pretty rough. I remember one of these threads on here revealing quite shoddy wiring throughout the trailer.

[lewster]

Originally Posted by 73shark

Does that mean that the lithium house batteries are only charged from solar or shore power? Or can you connect the chassis battery to Magnum?

You can actually connect the chassis battery to the solar charge controller for a 2 amp maintenance charge.

If you want to charge your chassis battery when stationary, look at Magnum's ME-SBC, which is a smart battery combiner that will add up to 25 amps to the secondary battery system from the primary.


Lew Farber
RVIA/RVDA Nationally Certified Master Tech
Master Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
AM Solar Certified Installation Center
Lifeline Batteries**Magnum Inverters
541-490-6357

[73shark]

Originally Posted by lewster

You can actually connect the chassis battery to the solar charge controller for a 2 amp maintenance charge.

If you want to charge your chassis battery when stationary, look at Magnum's ME-SBC, which is a smart battery combiner that will add up to 25 amps to the secondary battery system from the primary.


Lew Farber
RVIA/RVDA Nationally Certified Master Tech
Master Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
AM Solar Certified Installation Center
Lifeline Batteries**Magnum Inverters
541-490-6357

Actually what I meant was could you connect the chassis battery to the inverter to charge the lithium batteries.

[Boxster1971]

Thanks Lew - those are good tips on a lithium installation. But the big lithium issue for me is dealing with freezing temps where I live in Maryland.


- - Mike
2013 Interstate Lounge EXT on 2012 Sprinter