Airstream better up their game.....the herd is advancing

[gmillerok1]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

No good place for this link but it involves SOB in "the herd", so I thought I'd cross-link it here because it certainly is an eye-opener for the amount of work the author voluntarily put into it.

TL;DR - a customer with extensive engineering experience claims to have found potentially lethal technical violations in Hymer's designs. He went to war with the company and, rather than devolving into the usual customer grumbles that eventually disappear without a trace, it looks like it'll be a fight to the finish line. He dropped this document below today.

The first question that comes to readers' minds will probably be, "How does Airstream do with respect to both safety issues cited in that document?" Answer: IDK. I haven't parsed it in detail.

http://www.classbforum.com/forums/at...1&d=1547181653

Airstream does not use the cheap Chinese inverter/charger that Roadtrek uses and the ground wire meets code before and after the inverter/charger. I doubt that's an issue.

Airstream uses a standard Propane furnace, so the Truma issue doesn't apply either.

The Roadtrek's owner's and Roadtrek's response are a perfect example of what a customer and manufacturer (and CEO) should never do to resolve a complaint. Attempting to publicly shame a large company by a customer is a waste of time and publicly responding by a CEO on Facebook and outing that customer is a good way to get the company sued for libel, not to mention giving more credibility to the complaint in the first place. In my opinion, that shows extremely poor judgment.

Airstream, for all it's faults, has one thing going for them-and that's excellent customer support. What happened at Roadtrek would never happen at Airstream. Even if they had an unsatisfied customer that attempted to publicly shame them, they would just do what they should do-and try to please the customer as best they can. That's all any manufacturer can do.

I am sure they've had customers who were extremely unhappy and simply could not be made happy no matter what they did-and likely bought the unit back-which is the right thing to do rather than get into a public battle and having lawyers write threatening letters, even if the customer is being unreasonable in his demand.

I had a lot of issues with my new unit when I bought it. There are still some design issues that simply can't be resolved. Never was there an instance that those I talked to were nothing but sympathetic and did the best they could to resolve any issue. Airstream at least, post sale, does the best it can to make the customer happy, and even if they can't, you get the feeling they did all they could do to resolve it, and you end up actually greatly appreciative of the fact they care. And the customer support folks should get credit for that. You can't ask for anything more.

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

The first question that comes to readers' minds will probably be, "How does Airstream do with respect to both safety issues cited in that document?" Answer: IDK. I haven't parsed it in detail.

http://www.classbforum.com/forums/at...1&d=1547181653

INTERBLOG - I want to contribute an opinion but the doc is only accessible by classbforum members. So I vote "present"

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by Alex AVI

INTERBLOG - I want to contribute an opinion but the doc is only accessible by classbforum members. So I vote "present"

ALEX - you don't really want to get into that long running thread on the Class B Forum. It is mostly a lot of ranting by a disgruntled Roadtrek owner who is in a battle with the CEO of Roadtrek, Jim

The thread is titled "Mr. Jim Hammill attacks again". If you are curiuos here is the link.
http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f2...gain-7597.html

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

ALEX - you don't really want to get into that long running thread on the Class B Forum. It is mostly a lot of ranting by a disgruntled Roadtrek owner who is in a battle with the CEO of Roadtrek, Jim

The thread is titled "Mr. Jim Hammill attacks again". If you are curiuos here is the link.
http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f2...gain-7597.html

MIKE - Well, you did me a big favor in not wasting time. I agree, no need for me to even read just ranting threads, especially since it is a RoadTrek and if it isn't going to further or help any AS/AI issues. Thanks heads-up

[InterBlog]

In a Class B world where inverters catch on fire for no apparent reason with grandsons in the vehicle, it's never clear to me which ranting threads are worth reading and which are not, especially when they declare a risk of electrical fire due to improperly-installed equipment.

I have to ask myself, is this the same type of phenomenon that smoked the Airstream Interstate inverters, or is this something different? Is this some kind of fresh hell, yet another way a fire could happen, or is it isolated to SOB?

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by Alex AVI

INTERBLOG - Yes. His big mistake - "he took the bait". The mistake announced his position to the buying public. Every CEO has a position on these issues. But most are not so stupid to let it affect their future viability in a competitive market. ...

Aaaaand now we add Proctor and Gamble to the list of products that my husband would prefer to see expunged from our Interstate. Because if we don't respond to the nonsense that is happening in our society, our already-over-complicated world is going to degenerate into 360-degree, 24/7 finger-wagging and virtue-signalling from every conceivable side and source, as if we didn't have more than enough of it already.

I will say, though, that the Gillette thing gave me a good laugh, at least (unlike the Camping World thing). I saw their commercial and my first thought was, "Dudes, I was raised Catholic - if y'all aspire to act like that, you need to explore that denomination because they are the undisputed masters of that particular psychological perspective." (I'm sanitizing my observations for the forum). But then I noticed that Dollar Shave Club is carpe diem-ing big time, running ads wherever Gillette's name appears, and I just busted out laughing. And I thought, "You go, guys!"

Back to our regularly-scheduled (I hope) Interstate programming.

[InterBlog]

Different subject...

Oy vey, one of the biggest internet influencers has spoken. Technomadia is Class B shopping and is evaluating “the herd”. Unless they get offered a special deal somewhere in this process, I would place my bets on them choosing a Travato.

[InterBlog]

Also regarding "the herd", there's plenty of chatter on other sites regarding these allegations of fraud at Erwin Hymer (Roadtrek). I have not located corroboration by any other source. I would rather not accidentally pass along fake news, but FWIW, here's the piece that a number of Class B folks are either referring to, or talking about, right now.

https://rvdailyreport.com/industry/e...ed-by-scandal/

[NotStock]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

Different subject...

Oy vey, one of the biggest internet influencers has spoken. Technomadia is Class B shopping and is evaluating “the herd”. Unless they get offered a special deal somewhere in this process, I would place my bets on them choosing a Travato.


Attachment 332031

I’m sure someone will step up, and hook them up hahaha. I drove every class B I could find before buying a slightly used Interstate(because I was just going to screw it up anyway) it was the only class B I drove that didn’t have a dumb rattle somewhere. I drove three different Winnebago eras, and they all had rattling shower doors you couldn’t talk over(the dealership said they would fix of course).......... Maybe I should start a you tube channel hahaha

[InterBlog]

A big part of the herd is not advancing right now, reportedly. Production has stopped at the Erwin Hymer plant. Production is a prerequisite of cash flow, and cash flow is king, the lifeblood of any corporation. Stopping cash flow is like stopping a beating heart. I can't see them doing that in anything less than the most dire circumstances.

https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/product...-say-1.4273977

[bugsbunny]

Saw this on YouTube Ultramobility - starting around 3:00 minutes.... Regency RV Class B's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQTJWDNfvuY

A Promaster with a height extension so there are double cabinets around the top and just for IB.... wait.for.it..... double jacknife couches in the back that convert!!!!! The downsides are that it looks like you would likely have to sleep crosswise since the bed length is shorter than the T1Ns (53x73 versus 70x76 in the T1N), and the additional height did not go into the bathroom... But for a very tall person, the standing height is 7'4". Humble Road also had some quick walkthroughs of a Promaster and a Sprinter, but the Promaster George showed was the traditional sofa.

Wasn't sure if anyone else saw this, so wanted to post it....

Bugs

[Pahaska]

Originally Posted by bugsbunny

the Promaster George showed was the traditional sofa.
Bugs

Passed a Promaster-based B yesterday. I didn't catch who the manufacturer was. I think the Promaster is unbearably ugly. I would even choose a Ford Transit-based rig over the Promaster, although I find the Ford grille very ugly.

Ford quite obviously made a Chinese copy of the Sprinter and then ruined it with an ugly grille.

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by bugsbunny

Wasn't sure if anyone else saw this, so wanted to post it....

Bugs

BUGSBUNNY - This definitely would appeal to tall customers. Enjoyed the vid. I did not like the part where they somehow limited the bath height to still under 6ft. Not sure what limits that height? I owned a van conversion in the early 90's and it also had a fiberglass raised cap. I hope the technology has gotten better on these caps, i.e. addressing leaks. It would've been nice if the high roof came from factory, i.e like the MB Super High Roof, not fiberglass. But even MB is no longer offering the Super High Roof option. Being a short person 5'5", I have no need for the extra height. But 3 of my taller 5-footer friends who are 5'16" and 5'17" still have to duck in my van They would love this. The bed length would not be ideal for them.

JOHN - Yes, especially after owning a Sprinter and then with the newly designed 2019 Sprinters, it is hard to give up the aesthethic advantage the Sprinter has over ALL it's competitors. The only way I would consider a different van that has less aesthetic appeal than the Sprinter is if their electro-mechanical systems are far superior to those in the Sprinter. And in that area, the Sprinter still excels above them too. So there ya go, I am stuck with the Sprinter for awhile

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by bugsbunny

...and just for IB.... wait.for.it..... double jacknife couches in the back that convert!!!!! ....

Regency has been doing their market research. They're in Fort Worth, and I wonder if they've been looking at any local vanners for inspiration. I haven't been the only one to point out the jackknife market hole.

That thing is obviously aimed at tall people but also those who have kids. With those dimensions, some clever bugger is going to figure out how to add kids' beds vertically.

[bugsbunny]

I am under 5.5 and hubby is about 6, so our Sprinter is great. The guy that bought our 345 Classic MH was 6'4". One of the appeals of the classic was the high roof line in it for him and the first thing he said when he came to look at it.

Not sure how this would do in the wind either, but it is good to have options and may just be the right thing for some.

The Promaster for us is out because of the lack of 4x4, and we just like the Sprinter better. We really like our T1N and can't see switching to anything else at this point other than a 4x4 Sprinter - and that would be very unlikely due to our style of camping at this point.

[InterBlog]

I have avoided posting the substantial interim blah blah blah about Roadtrek, but they went down entirely yesterday. All employees fired and the plant locked out.

https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/employe...rica-1.4299298

[wachuko]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

I have avoided posting the substantial interim blah blah blah about Roadtrek, but they went down entirely yesterday. All employees fired and the plant locked out.

https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/employe...rica-1.4299298

Oh goodness...

[rowiebowie]

With Roadtrek gone, that takes out about a quarter of the herd. Wonder how other class b manufacturers will fill the gap? It could impede innovation as they work overtime to increase production. And that's not good for quality.

Time will tell.
.

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by rowiebowie

With Roadtrek gone, that takes out about a quarter of the herd. Wonder how other class b manufacturers will fill the gap? It could impede innovation as they work overtime to increase production. And that's not good for quality.

ROWIEBOWIE - Because it's an icon in the industry, it’s still a valued asset. In theory, if the receivership is done right, it may be spun off to another buyer & may even keep it's name (or under a different name if they feel the name carries a stigma). My feeling is it will resurface somewhere, somehow, & not completely disappear.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by Alex AVI

ROWIEBOWIE - Because it's an icon in the industry, it’s still a valued asset. In theory, if the receivership is done right, it may be spun off to another buyer & may even keep it's name (or under a different name if they feel the name carries a stigma). My feeling is it will resurface somewhere, somehow, & not completely disappear.

I would be pleased if you are right. But the Roadtrek topic has been thoroughly discussed for nearly a month over at classbforum and every dire prediction has come true, if not more dire than first thought. It seems now it is to the point where the brand name might survive, but not as anything resembling the current Roadtrek. I hope I'm wrong.
.