Airstream Atlas at Hershey

[Troutboy]

I have a friend who purchased a new LTV MB about a year ago and got it in April 17. He is very happy with it quality and all.

When he purchased it, it was nearly a year wait for build. We are both engineers and understand quality.

He mentioned the wait time was because they will not just expand the production line and hire unskilled workers. They would rather build a good unit, take their time. He likes that approach and it seems to be working for him.

Maybe airstream just needs to slow down a little bit. I would have purchased mine even with a 10 month wait.

[InterBlog]

It's a tough call for a manufacturer like Airstream. Many of their buyers are older retirees, and time is the one thing that they DON'T have. They often decide to buy a unit quite quickly, often after a health scare or some other factor that causes them to realize that time is of the essence for them.

[israndy]

Originally Posted by Natuzzi

And as you know, an RV show is not the place to do a good evaluation. Been interesting so far; LTV owners keep saying how great their units are and encouraging me to buy one, AS owners have been very discouraging and saying stay away! Yet, they both complain about the same problems!

I was just at Pomona and my first day there (Tuesday, so the show had been open for 4 days) ALL the demo LTV RVs were already marked as Sold, in fact, many had multiple Sold signs on them, guess there was more inventory in the area.

Sure other booths had Sold units, but EVERY SINGLE UNIT, and they had at least one of each that they make. I was really impressed.

-Randy

PS. In other news Winnebago no longer makes the Brave line, they are down to one VIA model (corner bed, yuck) and the new Horizon is eating into the cheaper Forza line, damn (sorry, I know, not a Winnebago forum)

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by Troutboy

He mentioned the wait time was because they will not just expand the production line and hire unskilled workers. They would rather build a good unit, take their time. He likes that approach and it seems to be working for him.

+1

This is my understanding of the situation with LTV as well. They basically refuse to "ramp up production" as someone else claimed and will continue to make their units the way they always have. Yes, this will push factory orders out to 6+ months, but there are still units sitting on lots across the country that can be had TODAY if the buyer is willing to be flexible on colors and options.

Coming back to the Atlas, I wonder what effect, if any, it will have on the overall market. Will it encourage others to enter the B+ space? Will it encourage LTV to raise their prices? It will be interesting to watch.....

[Msmoto]

Does anyone have an idea as to when Jackson Center will offer another floor plan? It would seem reasonable as part of a business development plan to have these things worked out long ago. And to start dropping the options out within six months of introduction.

As one who likes lots of light, I simply cannot accept the limited window area in the Murphy Bed floor plan. The windows are limited to one over the galley and one blocked by the pop up television. The window behind the Murphy bed, has little use at night, when one can actually see it.

Thus, I will wait...

I have commented on the significant price differential between the AS and LTV, and some of this comes from the more detailed finished out appearance of the Atlas. But, having spent most of my "lifetime" RV budget on a large moho in the past, I can really do without power shades, extra fancy steps, or as so clearly outlined in the Atlas literature... "Over $10,000 in premium interior
upgrades come standard" and "Over $15,000 in premium exterior
upgrades come standard" and "Over $15,000 in system upgrades come standard" which ads up to $40,000 in "upgrades". I am wondering exactly what I would get for this money?

One more comment, and this has been mentioned before... as we grow older, we do come to a realization that the easier it is to accomplish what we would like to do, i.e., travel, then the Atlas, LTV, and others make a lot of sense. I will be moving in this direction, just need to move my truck and trailer first.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Msmoto

as so clearly outlined in the Atlas literature... "Over $10,000 in premium interior
upgrades come standard" and "Over $15,000 in premium exterior
upgrades come standard" and "Over $15,000 in system upgrades come standard" which ads up to $40,000 in "upgrades"

How exactly are they "upgrades" if they come standard? Upgrades from what, pray tell?

Maybe if one could special-order an Atlas without all of the upgrades…

[rmkrum]

All this "upgrade" marketingspeak reminds me of an old MAD magazine article, where they translate marketing talk to plain english...

"New and Improved" means 'The same old crap in a different box'

[Msmoto]

Yup, "Over $5,000 safety upgrades come standard"

If I am not mistaken, this is the Sprinter upgrade packages as below.

DRIVER EFFICIENCY PACKAGE ($970)
Becker Map Pilot GPS navigation system
Fog lamps
Cruise Control

ACTIVE SAFETY PLUS PACKAGE ($1480)
Multifunction steering wheel w/ trip computer
Light and rain sensor
Collision prevention assist
Lane keeping assist
High beam assist
Instrument cluster with pixel-matrix display
Heated & power adjustable side mirrors
Windshield with filter band
Overhead control panel with 2 reading lamps
First aid kit
Emergency flashlight

CHROME GRILLE ($236)

BI-XENON HEADLAMP PACKAGE ($903)
Bi-Xenon headlamps
Headlamp washing system
MB SWIVEL SEAT PACKAGE ($890)

I think all the Sprinter based RV's I have looked at have these packages "Standard" Oh well... we all get a good laugh out of the interesting literature.... Now if Jackson Center could just get a guy like "Dean" LOL

[Natuzzi]

Originally Posted by FlyFishinRVr

+1

This is my understanding of the situation with LTV as well. They basically refuse to "ramp up production" as someone else claimed and will continue to make their units the way they always have. Yes, this will push factory orders out to 6+ months, but there are still units sitting on lots across the country that can be had TODAY if the buyer is willing to be flexible on colors and options.

Coming back to the Atlas, I wonder what effect, if any, it will have on the overall market. Will it encourage others to enter the B+ space? Will it encourage LTV to raise their prices? It will be interesting to watch.....

You are correct; LTV has kept production at 200 units per year but the wait times are 9-11 months at best. Only 3 2018 Unity MB’s sitting on lots all of which are more than 1000 miles from me. There are couple of 2017’s but not interested in a ‘17. Sometimes a dealer will have one become available that was ordered and folks back out for some reason so it can happen. And then, the upgrades begin. And btw, the list on a 2018 Unity MB with all options including a diesel genny is $153,492 plus freight and that is not including options which AS does not offer i.e., ladder, Winegard wifi extender or built in surge guard which would bring the LTV to $155,507 plus freight. The gap narrows.

[Soyboy]

I'd go with a nice "Super C" on a Freightliner M2 chassis for this kind (Atlas) of money. I guess I don't blame Airstream for charging the outrageous prices that they do if they can get it. The LTVs look like a much better buy.

As to the Atlas, just apply the applicable PT Barnum quote LOL.

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by Natuzzi

which would bring the LTV to $155,507 plus freight. The gap narrows.

It's still a $60,000 difference if comparing MSRP to MSRP, which to me isn't a gap, it's a chasm.

It will be interesting to see what the Atlas actually sells for. Will it be the typical Interstate "20% off MSRP" type of number, or something more? I suspect the LTV's will start selling closer to MSRP as the lead time from the factory continues to increase, so who knows, maybe the actual "what you can drive away in one" price between the two may be much closer than what the MSRP figures suggest. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility to see the LTV actually selling in the $150k range and a "good deal" on an Atlas being in the $180k range. Those numbers start making the choice a lot more interesting.....

[Msmoto]

The Atlas may have been designed to appear more like a Class B which would come from Prevost or Newell. Try and figure out what makes them worth the $1.5MM and up. But, as folks have stated to me regarding the above brands, when there are problems they are rather costly.

My guess is an Atlas with MSRP of $230M may go for as little as mid $180's but not much less.

What will be most interesting is the initial quality particularly in regards to malfunctions. Fit and finish is fairly easy to spot, but short cuts or simply sloppy assembly is often hidden.

Now that I have said all this, based solely on my imagination, I will be looking for the additional floor plans, if they can do this. It is my hope that the folks at JC have hit a home run and that the Atlas is a huge success both from a consumer and supplier's point of view. At least they are attempting to expand into what may be a very large market with probable fuel and other costs increasing with the large moho's.

[Denis4x4]

I bought my 2013 off the dealer showroom floor for less than $115,000 as it had all of the bells and whistles I wanted. The exterior color wasn't exactly my cup of tea, but I've grown to like it.

The big jump in prices came with the MB upgrades that took the Sprinter from a commercial truck interior to being equipped with many of the features found in cars. That added another $5,000 to the base price of LTV's, Interstates, etc. Not sure if the value of the Canadian dollar vs. the US dollar may have an effect.

[Natuzzi]

Originally Posted by Soyboy

I'd go with a nice "Super C" on a Freightliner M2 chassis for this kind (Atlas) of money. I guess I don't blame Airstream for charging the outrageous prices that they do if they can get it. The LTVs look like a much better buy.

As to the Atlas, just apply the applicable PT Barnum quote LOL.

Originally Posted by FlyFishinRVr

It's still a $60,000 difference if comparing MSRP to MSRP, which to me isn't a gap, it's a chasm.

It will be interesting to see what the Atlas actually sells for. Will it be the typical Interstate "20% off MSRP" type of number, or something more? I suspect the LTV's will start selling closer to MSRP as the lead time from the factory continues to increase, so who knows, maybe the actual "what you can drive away in one" price between the two may be much closer than what the MSRP figures suggest. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility to see the LTV actually selling in the $150k range and a "good deal" on an Atlas being in the $180k range. Those numbers start making the choice a lot more interesting.....

That is sure what I am hoping!

[israndy]

Originally Posted by Msmoto

[what] with probable fuel and other costs increasing with the large moho's.

I don't think we are going to be looking at diesel getting more expensive. With all the electric cars coming there will be less demand for fossil fuels. We'll see how long I can hold onto my 2005 non-BluTech diesel engines.

-Randy

[Msmoto]

I hope diesel drops in price. But, as it will be the fuel of choice for large trucks, I am doubtful of this. Also, the suppliers manipulate the price so much it may not be so much as the demand from small consumers but based upon a lot of things including other trucking costs.

Interestingly enough, I believe the data show that the DEF diesel engines get about 10% better fuel economy due to the higher combustion chamber temperature and thus more power per unit of fuel.

Related to fuel and the Atlas, if somehow the folks who build the RV's on the Sprinter chassis could order these with a 40 Gallon fuel tank, this would make me much happier. I am not a fan of refueling with diesel.... if I spill some on me, it is difficult to remove and rid one of the smell. Thus, a once a day refueling would be nice for those of us who like to get in 600+ miles per day.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Msmoto

I hope diesel drops in price. But, as it will be the fuel of choice for large trucks, I am doubtful of this.

Probably wise. Diesel and Jet-A fuel are very similar except for the sulfur content, lubricity additives, and cetane content; at the refinery, both are drawn off at pretty much the same point in the process of refining the crude oil. Similar enough that "thiefing," the use of "waste" jet fuel drawn off from tank sumps at airports to power diesel-fueled APUs and flight line equipment, is still relatively common.

As long as there is high demand for jet fuel, diesel prices will probably remain higher than gasoline prices, because the more jet fuel they make, the less is left to make diesel.

[israndy]

Oh, wait, is Diesel MORE expensive than Gas? Here in California it is often the case that it's the same or cheaper than Regular. We do have expensive Gasoline. That's one of the many things that keeps me loving my RVs.

Though I know what you mean about getting the Diesel smell off. I tanked up at a truck stop recently and those 40 gal/min pumps tend to overshoot the top of my 26 gallon tank, went all over the side and it takes soap to get it off, not available at a fuel stop.

-Randy

[Msmoto]

When I fill up my Dodge with the 60 gallon tank in the bed, I still pump at about 2 second gallons, (30 gallons/min) slowing when I hear the sound change. Even my big moho which held 150 gallons I would fill at about 2 second gallons, but on the main tank of the Dodge, try to do no more than 4 second gallons about 15 gallons/min. Diesel is nasty once spilled.

OK, I have asked this before, gotten an answer, but lost the answer..... where can one get a larger fuel tank for the Sprinter chassis?

[xrvr]

Do a search on the sprinter forum.