Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-14-2017, 06:53 AM   #61
Half a Rivet Short
 
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle , Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxster1971 View Post
With all due respect Bob, your comments are not right for owners of an Interstate B-van in the sub- forum it was posted. Your comments only apply to an Airstream trailer.

T-105 are flooded lead-acid batteries that just don't work in an Interstate with our special access and venting.

While going to a 24V system has advantages it also requires more than switching out a few LED light bulbs. You would also need a 24-12V DC converter to handle all the 12V systems in the Interstate.
Hi

.... except that it was in reply to an Interstate owner who commented about putting 6V batteries into their MH. There is no advantage to 6V batteries if you go with something other than T-105's.

Bob
uncle_bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 08:46 AM   #62
Figment of My Imagination
 
Protagonist's Avatar
 
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over , More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,868
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle_bob View Post
There is no advantage to 6V batteries if you go with something other than T-105's.
Why?

Lifeline makes some excellent 6v AGM batteries, and using two of them in series gives the Interstate owner a nominal capacity of 230 amp-hours vs. 160 amp-hours with two Group 24 12v batteries in parallel (though of course one can still only use half of that). And as an added plus, the Lifeline 6v batteries are almost exactly the same size as the Group 24 batteries they would replace, except for being an inch taller and a little heavier.
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
Protagonist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 09:21 AM   #63
Half a Rivet Short
 
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle , Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protagonist View Post
Why?

Lifeline makes some excellent 6v AGM batteries, and using two of them in series gives the Interstate owner a nominal capacity of 230 amp-hours vs. 160 amp-hours with two Group 24 12v batteries in parallel (though of course one can still only use half of that). And as an added plus, the Lifeline 6v batteries are almost exactly the same size as the Group 24 batteries they would replace, except for being an inch taller and a little heavier.
Hi

Lifeline also make 12V AGM batteries that have the same sort of net capacity. The advantage of the T-105's is that they give a bit more capacity for a bit less money. If you don't get more bang for the buck, why rewire everything?

Bob
uncle_bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 09:45 AM   #64
Figment of My Imagination
 
Protagonist's Avatar
 
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over , More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,868
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle_bob View Post
The advantage of the T-105's is that they give a bit more capacity for a bit less money. If you don't get more bang for the buck, why rewire everything?
An extra 5 amp-hours more than the Lifelines, of which you can actually use 2˝ amp-hours. But the Trojans are also 2 inches taller than the Lifeline GPL-4CT (which in turn are an inch taller than the Group 24s they would replace) and so 3-inch-taller Trojan T-105s may not fit the Interstate's battery compartment that was sized for Group 24s. AND the house batteries in an Interstate aren't necessarily readily accessible to check fluid levels except on some twin-bed models.

But you are right about one thing. Going with T-105s in an Interstate could give you a lot more bang for the buck. Hydrogen out-gassing from wet-cell batteries into the passenger compartment of a Class B motorhome could give you a lot of BANG!

There hasn't been an Interstate made yet that could safely use wet-cell house batteries. The batteries are either located inside the van where out-gassing is a potential issue, or on some recent models underneath the van— sitting on their sides to reduce the height and maintain ground clearance, not upright. Wet cells don't work sitting on their sides.
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
Protagonist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 10:55 AM   #65
c21
Rivet Master
 
2014 Interstate Coach
Arroyo Grande & Central Point , California & Oregon
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 624
Good info Protag!
c21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 12:57 PM   #66
Rivet Master
 
Boxster1971's Avatar

 
2024 Interstate 19
Fulton , Maryland
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,867
Thanks Protagonist - for filling in the details.
__________________
- - Mike
--------------------------
2024 Airstream Interstate 19e AWD
Previous: 2013 Airstream Interstate 3500 Ext Lounge
Boxster1971 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2017, 04:27 AM   #67
3 Rivet Member
 
ben322's Avatar
 
2009 Interstate
Bethesda , Maryland
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protagonist View Post
There hasn't been an Interstate made yet that could safely use wet-cell house batteries. The batteries are either located inside the van where out-gassing is a potential issue, or on some recent models underneath the van— sitting on their sides to reduce the height and maintain ground clearance, not upright. Wet cells don't work sitting on their sides.
I don't know how the later models are setup but the vertical battery box that I have is vented from the bottom and through a vent tube that runs to the outside above the electrical outlet on the rear passenger side. That vent is how I discovered, by smell, that the original Tripplite was boiling the first set of batteries because I thought I could leave it plugged in 24/7. Since there is also a gasket on the lid, I considered T105's but in the end went with two stacked 6CT's along with the Magnum & cable upgrade.
__________________
2009 Airstream Interstate
ben322 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2017, 05:13 AM   #68
Figment of My Imagination
 
Protagonist's Avatar
 
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over , More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,868
Quote:
Originally Posted by ben322 View Post
I don't know how the later models are setup but the vertical battery box that I have is vented from the bottom and through a vent tube that runs to the outside above the electrical outlet on the rear passenger side. That vent is how I discovered, by smell, that the original Tripplite was boiling the first set of batteries because I thought I could leave it plugged in 24/7. Since there is also a gasket on the lid, I considered T105's but in the end went with two stacked 6CT's along with the Magnum & cable upgrade.
My Interstate also has the stacked battery box under the sofa.

Yes, the box is vented. But the stacked batteries also akes it impractical to use wet-cell batteries. Checking either battery requires at least partially disassembling the sofa. Checking the bottom battery requires lifting out the top battery, which requires disconnecting the top battery as well. Not an exercise that I would recommend for checking electrolyte levels in wet-cell batteries.

So even though I didn't include that particular battery configuration in my previous description, I stand by my assertion that no Interstate can safely use wet-cell house batteries.

And by the way, that battery box isn't tall enough for stacked T-105s anyway. The GPL-4CT's just barely fit, and the T-105s as previously stated are each 2 inches taller than a Lifeline GPL-4CT.
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
Protagonist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2017, 06:43 AM   #69
3 Rivet Member
 
ben322's Avatar
 
2009 Interstate
Bethesda , Maryland
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protagonist View Post
And by the way, that battery box isn't tall enough for stacked T-105s anyway. The GPL-4CT's just barely fit, and the T-105s as previously stated are each 2 inches taller than a Lifeline GPL-4CT.
Perhaps the box was changed after 2009, (mine extends through the floor and is about 28" deep inside), and barely fit two 6CT's.
__________________
2009 Airstream Interstate
ben322 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2017, 11:17 AM   #70
Rivet Master
 
FlyFishinRVr's Avatar
 
2017 Interstate Lounge Ext
Northern , California
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by ben322 View Post
I don't know how the later models are setup
Protagonist touched on this already and he's 100% correct: On the newer Interstates, the house batteries are under the coach in a tray that requires the batteries to lay on their side (the short side). This is not compatible with wet cell batteries like the T-105.
FlyFishinRVr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2017, 11:43 PM   #71
3 Rivet Member
 
2015 Interstate Ext. Coach
Thousand Oaks , California
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 102
Responding to Uncle_Bob, since I’ll be using the rear storage compartment for additional house batteries in our 2015 Lounge Ext. I thought I would add a detail or two about my plan.

The batteries I plan to use are GC2’s which seem to have same dimensions and Ah capacity as the T105‘s. Four of them will fit neatly in the back storage compartment with sufficient headroom and about an inch to spare front to back.

The compartment will be modified with vents to allow fumes to escape outside and under the coach and a sealed lid to keep the fumes out of the interior.
Ryoungca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 06:41 AM   #72
Half a Rivet Short
 
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle , Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,674
Hi

Unless you have done the work to come up with a proper battery box, and have it properly vented outside, you don't want wet cells inside a MH. Constructing (or buying) a proper enclosure is part of the conversion process if you go to flooded cells. You don't just have to fit the batteries. You also have to fit the box (and vent it).

Bob
uncle_bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 08:18 AM   #73
Rivet Master
 
Boxster1971's Avatar

 
2024 Interstate 19
Fulton , Maryland
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,867
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle_bob View Post
Hi



Unless you have done the work to come up with a proper battery box, and have it properly vented outside, you don't want wet cells inside a MH. Constructing (or buying) a proper enclosure is part of the conversion process if you go to flooded cells. You don't just have to fit the batteries. You also have to fit the box (and vent it).



Bob

Exactly right - thanks for clarification.
__________________
- - Mike
--------------------------
2024 Airstream Interstate 19e AWD
Previous: 2013 Airstream Interstate 3500 Ext Lounge
Boxster1971 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 06:28 PM   #74
3 Rivet Member
 
2015 Interstate Ext. Coach
Thousand Oaks , California
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 102
One of the reasons I'm posting the progress on this forum is to make sure it makes sense to the more knowledgeable folks out there. I've talked to a couple of rv technicians and battery suppliers about the vent requirements and haven't seen definitive vent requirements. The Trojan MSDS for T-105 says change the air every 15 minutes though it doesn't reference an enclosure size and another site showed about .1 cubic meter of air per hour per kilowatt for flooded batteries.

I'm planning on several 1" vents on the outside of the box and a couple of additional holes at the bottom so I can rinse them off periodically. The interior will be coated with a rubberized "rhino shield" and the top will be sealed.

I recognize that I can switch to Lifelines though my understanding is that they can still release gas and must be vented. My plan was to go with the flooded type since they're cheaper and my set-up allows me to install them upright.
Ryoungca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 06:40 PM   #75
Half a Rivet Short
 
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle , Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,674
Hi

Answer number one is to go to AGM's rather than flooded cells. That eliminates 6V Trojan T-105's from the discussion. Since they are the only reason to go to 6V batteries, you stick with 12V instead.

Answer number two is to get a properly designed battery box and get it installed by somebody who knows what they are doing. Don't kludge it and don't guess about how to do it. Really simple errors can lead to a lot of grief. Add the price of a box to the cost savings on the T-105's and .... hmmmm..... maybe not so good an idea.

Lots of fun !!

Bob
uncle_bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 06:52 PM   #76
Figment of My Imagination
 
Protagonist's Avatar
 
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over , More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryoungca View Post
The Trojan MSDS for T-105 says change the air every 15 minutes though it doesn't reference an enclosure size and another site showed about .1 cubic meter of air per hour per kilowatt for flooded batteries.
You can ignore the MSDS; that applies to bulk storage of batteries in a warehouse.

There is no hard-and-fast requirement regarding vent sizing for wet-cell batteries. But a decent rule of thumb is 1 square inch of venting each top and bottom, per battery, should be sufficient. Top vents need to be at the highest point of the enclosure to avoid a "hydrogen trap" at the top of the box. Bottom vents should be at the lowest point to allow drainage of liquids as well as airflow.
Quote:
I recognize that I can switch to Lifelines though my understanding is that they can still release gas and must be vented.
AGMs can off-gas while charging (especially if over-charging), but the amount of hydrogen released is trivial compared to wet-cell batteries in the same situation.

Early-model Interstates had the AGM house battery (singular) under the front passenger seat, with no vent to the outside, and no sealed enclosure around the battery. This is actually quite safe for AGMs, because the lower explosive limit for hydrogen is 4% by volume, and if you have the whole volume of the van to consider, a single AGM battery could never off-gas enough to raise the concentration of hydrogen in the van to 4%. So letting the battery off-gas directly into the passenger compartment was never a safety hazard.

You're actually worse off with a smaller battery enclosure, because you've got a much lower volume of air inside the enclosure, and it's a lot easier for the batteries to off-gas enough hydrogen to reach 4% of the air inside the enclosure unless you vent it properly to the outside.
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
Protagonist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2017, 12:50 AM   #77
3 Rivet Member
 
2015 Interstate Ext. Coach
Thousand Oaks , California
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 102
One drawback of the rear storage compartment and its vents is interference from the rear floor. The rear storage compartment is 12” deep and the floor is 2” thick so any vents would need to be about a quarter of the way down. Taking Protag’s “hydrogen trap” comment to heart, maybe the AGMs deserve a closer look.

Any comments from AGM users about the different brands? Lifeline and others make AGMs in the same GC2 form factor and there are big cost differences.
Ryoungca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2017, 07:37 AM   #78
Half a Rivet Short
 
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle , Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,674
Hi

Just to make it clear one more time: the key vents for a battery box are the ones in the *top* of the box. They need to go up and out with noting to trap the gas. Bottom vents are not that critical in terms of routing.

Bob
uncle_bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2017, 08:38 AM   #79
3 Rivet Member
 
2014 Interstate Ext. Coach
fairfax station , va
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 187
Lifeline

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryoungca View Post
Any comments from AGM users about the different brands? Lifeline and others make AGMs in the same GC2 form factor and there are big cost differences.
Batteries + has X2 Power AGM made by Northstar and Energizer AGM made by Deka. (I have used both and can offer no real evaluation...my Lifelines died a tragic death by deep discharge so I can't even rate them)

These Amstron batteries go for $196 at Amazon. The nice part of this fact sheet is that it lists a bunch of comparable batteries like the Trojan. I don't know if Amstron is a real manufacturer or just rebrands someone else's batteries.

It seems that specification-wise $300+ lifelines can be replaced with $200 substitutes. Everyone rates Lifelines at the top but I really have never heard anyone say that Deka at 2/3's the price is a bad deal.

https://www.amstron.com/amstron-gc2-...e-battery.html
VAtom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2017, 06:42 AM   #80
Half a Rivet Short
 
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle , Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,674
Hi

To a great extent, batteries are a "you get what you pay for" sort of deal. Lifeline AGM's are pretty good. There are people who make better ones for more money. I don't know of anybody who makes a better one or one that's as good for less money.

Bob
uncle_bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
House batteries drain ic2jack5648 Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 5 04-17-2009 02:03 PM
Tie House & Coach Batteries for Winter Storage? N2XBW Electrical - Systems, Generators, Batteries & Solar 5 11-23-2007 10:29 PM
Help with House Batteries johndes Land Yacht/Legacy Motorhomes 7 12-20-2006 11:56 AM
house batteries wb13798 Mechanics Corner - Engines, Transmission & More... 16 02-07-2006 07:41 PM
30 Amp Power w/o House Batteries Installed Airrayd Electrical - Systems, Generators, Batteries & Solar 4 11-29-2004 12:49 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.