Adding House Batteries

[Ryoungca]

A couple of weeks ago I posted step 1 of renovating the rear storage compartment of my 2015 AI Lounge Ext. to accommodate additional and larger batteries. That step involved removing the big black box for modifications. Since then I’ve finished steps 2, 3 and 4 and am ready for the installer.

Step 2: Drilling holes for battery cables, vents and drains.

Step 3: Creating a tight seal for the lid, removing part of the existing flange to make it easier to drop in batteries and adding plastic rings to the cable access holes to protect the cables.

Step 4: Adding an acid resistant coating to the bare metal.

I managed step 2 with my little battery operated drill and hole saw. The 12 volt Dewalt needed to stop and change batteries every other hole but it did the job. (The metal box turned out to be pretty thick.) Step 3 and 4 were completed by my local Line-X franchisee. These are the guys who spray that heavy rubber coating/liner on pick-up truck beds.

I uploaded a couple of pics of the work in process and a couple pics of the completed box below.

[Air99]

Excellent work! I wanted to go your route but decided to limp along with 4 Interstate group 24 from Costco until Lithium price drop some more hopefully.

[Ryoungca]

For me, the Lithium option seemed like it would necessitate changing the Magnum Charger/Inverter and the BIM in addition to the Lithium batteries themselves. I picked up 4 Lifeline GPL-4CTs today from my local Powerstride Battery retailer. The installation begins next week including adding the Magnum Battery Temp Sensor that was missing from my existing set-up.

I elected to try the route of just adding the additional lead acid Amp hours. I think I'll have enough of a reserve for 1-2 days of boon docking which would typically be my max. If I'm away from shore power and not driving for more than 2 days I can always run the Onan generator for a couple of hours.

Everyone's needs are a little different and I did have a short discussion with Lewster about the Lithium option(s) so I'm sure he will be there if I want to take the next step.

[Air99]

Originally Posted by Ryoungca

For me, the Lithium option seemed like it would necessitate changing the Magnum Charger/Inverter and the BIM in addition to the Lithium batteries themselves. I picked up 4 Lifeline GPL-4CTs today from my local Powerstride Battery retailer. The installation begins next week including adding the Magnum Battery Temp Sensor that was missing from my existing set-up.

I elected to try the route of just adding the additional lead acid Amp hours. I think I'll have enough of a reserve for 1-2 days of boon docking which would typically be my max. If I'm away from shore power and not driving for more than 2 days I can always run the Onan generator for a couple of hours.

Everyone's needs are a little different and I did have a short discussion with Lewster about the Lithium option(s) so I'm sure he will be there if I want to take the next step.

See if you can get the BTS from Magnum to work, I mounted it on the battery negative post but it kept showing 0 degree F on the remote, other option is to glue it to the battery side which I haven’t tried. There’s nothing wrong with your choice at this time, you should be fine couple nights.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Lithiums require cell balancing along with charging. There are a lot of things you do in a full up lithium install....

Bob

[VAtom]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Lithiums require cell balancing along with charging. There are a lot of things you do in a full up lithium install....

Bob

I haven't read in depth on the topic but a lot of the discussion on using lithium is confusing to me.

I doubt if I would drop $1,000 per unit on a battery if I wasn't fully confident I knew what was going on and that it would be worth it in the long run.

Battleborn claims to be a "drop in" replacement.

They also make this claim

Cell Balancing
At Battle Born Batteries we pride ourselves on making the highest quality product that we can.
We have found the best way for us to do this is to capacity match the entire way, from the 120
cells to the 4 modules to however many batteries are in your bank just know that they have
been specifically selected to give you the best performance. A concern that some customers
have is cell balancing. We built passive cell balancing into OUR BMS so that you never have to
worry about your battery becoming unbalanced

They also say this which I found interesting

Temperature Compensation
Temperature compensation is not needed with our batteries and in some cases, may trigger
the built in BMS to go into protect mode. For this reason, we recommend that temperature
compensation be shut off or set to 0.

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by VAtom

I haven't read in depth on the topic but a lot of the discussion on using lithium is confusing to me.

I doubt if I would drop $1,000 per unit on a battery if I wasn't fully confident I knew what was going on and that it would be worth it in the long run.

Battleborn claims to be a "drop in" replacement.

They also make this claim

Cell Balancing
At Battle Born Batteries we pride ourselves on making the highest quality product that we can.
We have found the best way for us to do this is to capacity match the entire way, from the 120
cells to the 4 modules to however many batteries are in your bank just know that they have
been specifically selected to give you the best performance. A concern that some customers
have is cell balancing. We built passive cell balancing into OUR BMS so that you never have to
worry about your battery becoming unbalanced

They also say this which I found interesting

Temperature Compensation
Temperature compensation is not needed with our batteries and in some cases, may trigger
the built in BMS to go into protect mode. For this reason, we recommend that temperature
compensation be shut off or set to 0.

+1 on the BB batteries. They address a lot of the "hassle" with using Lithium, specifically cell balancing, via a built in BMS. They also Bulk charge at 14.4v (standard alternator output voltage) and Float charge at 13.6v, so you actually CAN just "drop them in" to an existing system (as replacements....it's still never a good idea to mix chemistries....if you want to keep your existing AGMs and ADD these, you really should install them as a parallel system using something like a Sterling Battery-to-Battery charger). They are also one of the more reasonably priced Lithium solutions at $900 for 100Ahrs, especially given the built in BMS.

https://battlebornbatteries.com/shop...cycle-battery/

[Air99]

Originally Posted by FlyFishinRVr

+1 on the BB batteries. They address a lot of the "hassle" with using Lithium, specifically cell balancing, via a built in BMS. They also Bulk charge at 14.4v (standard alternator output voltage) and Float charge at 13.6v, so you actually CAN just "drop them in" to an existing system (as replacements....it's still never a good idea to mix chemistries....if you want to keep your existing AGMs and ADD these, you really should install them as a parallel system using something like a Sterling Battery-to-Battery charger). They are also one of the more reasonably priced Lithium solutions at $900 for 100Ahrs, especially given the built in BMS.

https://battlebornbatteries.com/shop...cycle-battery/

The BB and LifeBlue are what I’m interested in also. Here hoping to see more reviews from users before I commit. Thanks!

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by VAtom

I haven't read in depth on the topic but a lot of the discussion on using lithium is confusing to me.

I doubt if I would drop $1,000 per unit on a battery if I wasn't fully confident I knew what was going on and that it would be worth it in the long run.

Battleborn claims to be a "drop in" replacement.

They also make this claim

Cell Balancing
At Battle Born Batteries we pride ourselves on making the highest quality product that we can.
We have found the best way for us to do this is to capacity match the entire way, from the 120
cells to the 4 modules to however many batteries are in your bank just know that they have
been specifically selected to give you the best performance. A concern that some customers
have is cell balancing. We built passive cell balancing into OUR BMS so that you never have to
worry about your battery becoming unbalanced

They also say this which I found interesting

Temperature Compensation
Temperature compensation is not needed with our batteries and in some cases, may trigger
the built in BMS to go into protect mode. For this reason, we recommend that temperature
compensation be shut off or set to 0.

Hi

The same sort of claims have been made by others in the past. Those outfits aren't around any more. The claims turned out to not quite be true in real use after a lot of years / cycles .... Take a look at what the papers published on the automotive batteries have to say about balancing ...

Bob

[Ryoungca]

Here's an update to my conversion from the under seat battery box to the under floor battery box in my 2015 AI Lounge Ext.

I posted pics of the completed battery box a couple of weeks ago. It's now installed and wired with 4 Lifeline GPL-4CTs replacing the two Group 24's in the old box.

After we removed the old box under the seat we wanted reuse that space for storage. Since the old box covered a bunch of wiring in that area, I built a wooden platform that raised the floor and protects the wires and connections in that corner.

Here is a pic of the installed batteries along with a couple of pics of the added platform and storage basket.

Now for some testing on the boondocking capability, the goal was to go at least 24 hours before the batteries dropped to 50% State of Charge.

[VAtom]

Originally Posted by Ryoungca

After we removed the old box under the seat we wanted reuse that space for storage. Since the old box covered a bunch of wiring in that area, I built a wooden platform that raised the floor and protects the wires and connections in that corner.

Nice work, and good you were able to re-claim the old bat box space.

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by Ryoungca

Here's an update to my conversion from the under seat battery box to the under floor battery box in my 2015 AI Lounge Ext.
.
.
Now for some testing on the boondocking capability, the goal was to go at least 24 hours before the batteries dropped to 50% State of Charge.

Looks great!

Looking forward to hearing how the new setup performs for you.

[Ryoungca]

Here is an update on the battery boon docking capacity with 4 GPL-4CT Lifelines replacing the 2 Group 24 lead acid batteries. Tests show 2 days + with the new set-up versus 1/2 day with the old system. Each test started with a full charge and ended when the bank showed 12.2 volts or about 50% State of Charge.

I haven't yet had a true boon docking trip, just testing in the driveway with "normal" draws from the battery cut-off, propane switch, fridge and other miscellaneous Ah hogs. I'm guessing I could easily meet my goal of day and more in a true camping outing with everything running.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by Ryoungca

Here is an update on the battery boon docking capacity with 4 GPL-4CT Lifelines replacing the 2 Group 24 lead acid batteries. Tests show 2 days + with the new set-up versus 1/2 day with the old system. Each test started with a full charge and ended when the bank showed 12.2 volts or about 50% State of Charge.

I haven't yet had a true boon docking trip, just testing in the driveway with "normal" draws from the battery cut-off, propane switch, fridge and other miscellaneous Ah hogs. I'm guessing I could easily meet my goal of day and more in a true camping outing with everything running.

Thanks for the update. I have had the same four Lifeline GPL-4CTs for about two years. They are a great setup for the Interstate. With 400 watts of solar I added - my Interstate is a reasonable boondocking van.

You mentioned the propane switch, which draws a sizable amount of power. It does not need to be on constantly unless you want to keep the water heater or furnace running. I added a second inside switch so I can turn on the propane only when needed for the cooktop or to run water heater.

[Kwils25]

Ryoungca, I really like your setup and appreciate the photos. I would like to know if you added any supports for your new battery enclosure, and if so, how that was accomplished.

[Ryoungca]

Kwils25: Yes, I had a strap made to support the box. The local trailer guy who wired the new batteries also bent a heavy metal bar that runs under the box and bolts to the frame.

I thought it was a good idea at the time. After I had a good look at the heavy gauge of the box itself I think it was a little overkill.

I can supply a picture if that would help, just let me know.

[felixkagi]

Originally Posted by Ryoungca

Here's an update to my conversion from the under seat battery box to the under floor battery box in my 2015 AI Lounge Ext.

I posted pics of the completed battery box a couple of weeks ago. It's now installed and wired with 4 Lifeline GPL-4CTs replacing the two Group 24's in the old box.

After we removed the old box under the seat we wanted reuse that space for storage. Since the old box covered a bunch of wiring in that area, I built a wooden platform that raised the floor and protects the wires and connections in that corner.

Here is a pic of the installed batteries along with a couple of pics of the added platform and storage basket.

Now for some testing on the boondocking capability, the goal was to go at least 24 hours before the batteries dropped to 50% State of Charge.

Looks great, clean solution to more than double AH total, the GPL-4CT'S just fit into a storage compartment that's not always easily accessible anyway and the their 264 lbs weight is centered.

Questions: What is the battery cable size used for the app?

You mentioned in an earlier post that you think the compartment (steel) box would be capable of holding the 264+ lbs without extra re-inforcing. Can you elaborate a bit more?

[Ryoungca]

Originally Posted by felixkagi

Questions: What is the battery cable size used for the app?

You mentioned in an earlier post that you think the compartment (steel) box would be capable of holding the 264+ lbs without extra re-inforcing. Can you elaborate a bit more?

For the cable, I used all 1/0 cable from a welding supply. The Magnum specifies 1/0 for the charging amp load. You’d also need that big cable when the coach batteries supply charging amps to the engine in an emergency.

On the compartment and its strength, That’s just my guess, the steel box is between 16th and an eighth of an inch thick and the box must weigh 30 pounds. We loaded batteries into the box has a test before the work was complete and it didn’t seem like the weight was straining the enclosure.

[VAtom]

Originally Posted by Ryoungca

On the compartment and its strength, That’s just my guess, the steel box is between 16th and an eighth of an inch thick and the box must weigh 30 pounds. We loaded batteries into the box has a test before the work was complete and it didn’t seem like the weight was straining the enclosure.

The box is very substantial and the 300# is no problem. The only real stress is on the lip of the box and the floor of the van but even that is no more than 30 psi static.

I don't know about the dynamic load on the lip from bouncing around....I dropped out of that class

[VAtom]

Originally Posted by VAtom

The only real stress is on the lip of the box and the floor of the van but even that is no more than 30 psi static.

3 psi