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Old 09-04-2019, 03:01 PM   #1
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2019 19' House and Chassis Battery Connected

Our 2019 19' appears to have the Chassis and the House connected.
When boondocking, the voltage of the Chassis and the House batteries in the CZONE display appear close to the same. This past weekend, running the compressor fridge and the Truma all night yielded a voltage in the morning of 12.4 on BOTH chassis and house batteries. I confirmed this with a volt-ohm meter of the chassis battery. NOT GOOD. Would this be caused by a bad battery isolator??? This is not a coincidence. During the day the solar panels charged them up close the 13. Again, both Chassis and House showing close to the same voltage.
What could be going on??
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Old 09-04-2019, 05:20 PM   #2
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Sounds like the battery manager is not dropping out as it should with no charging going on.

Many of us have upgraded the battery manager to the Blue Sea ACR, which not only works much better to keep the batteries charged, it also has a remote switch that you can use to override the automatic function. I have upgraded to the Blue Sea on two AIs now without any regrets.
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Old 09-04-2019, 06:13 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1919 View Post
Our 2019 19' appears to have the Chassis and the House connected.
When boondocking, the voltage of the Chassis and the House batteries in the CZONE display appear close to the same. This past weekend, running the compressor fridge and the Truma all night yielded a voltage in the morning of 12.4 on BOTH chassis and house batteries. I confirmed this with a volt-ohm meter of the chassis battery. NOT GOOD. Would this be caused by a bad battery isolator??? This is not a coincidence. During the day the solar panels charged them up close the 13. Again, both Chassis and House showing close to the same voltage.
What could be going on??
1919 - this kinda strange with unit being so new. Looking at the diagrams for the 2019 19" , I see that the only way your chassis & house batts will be always connected is if the dash switch is shorted out (i.e. always ON) or the battery isolator solenoid is stuck in join position (even without the IGN or dash triggering it) or if the IGN lead on the battery isolator has been wired by mistake to +12v instead of the ignition (thereby triggering it all the time). You should be able to check these 3 conditions if you feel comfortable with a deeper dive with your voltmeter.

BTW - unrelated to your problem but related to battery isolator - was surprised to see in your diagrams that there no longer is a GEN lead connected to battery isolator. Not sure why this is? Coz the way it is now wired, running the GEN will still charge house batts but no longer join the chassis batt. Kinda confused here??
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Old 09-05-2019, 11:13 AM   #4
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Thank you, Alex.

I checked the battery join switch on the dash, and can hear the solenoid clicking in and out. Of course, maybe I should dig in with a volt/ohm meter. I keep a Fluke in the van at all times for such things.

This was not a problem until I took it to the dealer for the Czone showing the chassis and house battery voltage reversed. Since I picked it up, now they are the same. So they may have screwed it up.

Would putting in a Blue Sea ACR affect the warranty??? Can I have the dealer put in the Blue Sea? The 19' though having the same equipment as the 24, AS spread it all over the van because of space. The Magnum is under the passenger seat, and the solar controller, which I replaced with the fantastic Victron 100/30 MPPT controller, is under the couch in the rear, as is all the relays for the CZONE. The fuse panel is under the right side small couch.

Thank you for your response, Alex.....

As a side note, I have mixed feelings on the CZONE equipment. Though it has a good reputation, the programming by AS is sort of wonky, and AS did not take advantage of some of the capabilities. Like using the color display. Everything AS did is in black and white. Nor did they install the wifi control in the 19.
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Old 09-05-2019, 11:32 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1919 View Post
I checked the battery join switch on the dash, and can hear the solenoid clicking in and out. Of course, maybe I should dig in with a volt/ohm meter. I keep a Fluke in the van at all times for such things.

This was not a problem until I took it to the dealer for the Czone showing the chassis and house battery voltage reversed. Since I picked it up, now they are the same. So they may have screwed it up.

Would putting in a Blue Sea ACR affect the warranty??? Can I have the dealer put in the Blue Sea? The 19' though having the same equipment as the 24, AS spread it all over the van because of space. The Magnum is under the passenger seat, and the solar controller, which I replaced with the fantastic Victron 100/30 MPPT controller, is under the couch in the rear, as is all the relays for the CZONE. The fuse panel is under the right side small couch.

Thank you for your response, Alex.....

As a side note, I have mixed feelings on the CZONE equipment. Though it has a good reputation, the programming by AS is sort of wonky, and AS did not take advantage of some of the capabilities. Like using the color display. Everything AS did is in black and white. Nor did they install the wifi control in the 19.
1919 - In my book anyone who knows enough to keep a FLUKE in the AI knows enough to poke around checking voltages too I would do some more poking/checking if it was mine.

So, if pushing the dash 'jumpstart button' causes the solenoid to click on/off, then the BIM is not stuck in the 'join' position. So that blows a few of my theories out the door.

The new info about the chassis/house batt readings being reversed is concerning, because if it could be easily reversed, then they could have easily messed it up during the process of fixing it; i.e. your batts may actually be disconnecting just fine but they are just measuring one of them OR they may be measuring both but never re-configured CZONE properly to reflect the swap. I do not know enough about CZONE to tell what is required, will need to read up on it some more if I find more info. If it is any similar to FIREFLY that I have, it just relays the same info taken from the SEELEVELII monitor. Not sure if CZONE foregoes SEELEVEL monitor.

Will let you know if I find any more.

Changing out to the Blue Sea should not affect the warranty, unless of course it damages something in the process. So buyer beware while unit is still under warranty.

Did not know AS only uses b&w on the CZONE, that is weird since they used the full FIREFLY features, including the color display. Seems to be a regressive move IMHO.
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Old 09-05-2019, 01:07 PM   #6
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1919 - Some additional info:

1. CZONE still uses the SEELEVELII monitor. One quick way to see what your house batts are reading is to check the monitor behind the CZONE panel. There is no connection to chassis batt from SEELEVEL, so chances are great that whatever voltage you get there is the 'true' house voltage. According to manual, it is behind the CZONE panel above TV.
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2. CZONE panels have identical connection to the house batts. CKT#8 (Gray, 7.5A fuse). It's the Red leads from the panels which connects to Gray. Snipet of the diagram from the manual is not displaying too well because their line drawings are somehow bolded-out, so they are very hard to read due to how thick the letters/lines are. But you can make out the Red (+12v) and WHT (Grnd) in the diags.
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3. CZONE chassis batt connection is on CZONE Connector #3 (8-pin connector, Pin #1). This seems to be the only place chassis +12 is monitored from. No reason to have more than 1.
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I would poke around those 3 areas to see what voltages you get compared to the display panel. My hunch is they did not reconfigure the CZONE panels or controller properly but I can not find any instructions on how to do that.

The CZONE system can be easily configured from a Windows PC or laptop connected to the network with the CZONE USB CAN Adapter. However, I am unsure what access codes, if any, are needed to do so. It is something I would want for myself, but probably too dangerous to leave accessible for non-techie types.
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Old 09-05-2019, 01:48 PM   #7
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1919 - Sorry for inundating your thread with multiple posts, this stuff just interests me very much being a techie-geek. So, I can confirm all the stuff I discussed earlier obviously can be reconfigured. Just a matter of how and whether you as the end-user has access. Since I do not have one, you will have to try yourself or ask dealer/AS if you can access. This includes battery calibration process, etc. if they are truly using it. Be interesting to see if they decided to keep it open or lock us out

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If you want to download all the pertinent info for your panels, you can start with the Install Guide for the CZONE Touch5 Display. That seems to be the one used in the AI. The install sheet has way more configured in it that they use for examples because it is being shown as a yacht system. But the process is identical.

https://images.mastervolt.nl/files/C...Manualv1.1.pdf
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Old 09-05-2019, 07:21 PM   #8
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Even though the manual states that there is a SesLevel, there is not one to be found. Unless it is behind a screwed in panel. Monitoring levels is seen in the photo. The second photo is of the control panel area, and you can see that there is no SeaLevel around the TV.

I am 2 day boondocking this weekend, so I can Fluke around, excuse the pun. I may disconnect the chassis battery and see what the CZONE display does.

I will let y'all know...
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Old 09-05-2019, 07:25 PM   #9
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The voltages are not showing the same because it is in my driveway with fridge running. The voltages read the same when SOC stabilizes overnight. Will take another pic.
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Old 09-05-2019, 07:28 PM   #10
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Are you still under warranty, and have you looped your dealer in on this?

Plenty to lose if something gets fried and warranty coverage is denied IMO.

Good luck,

Peter
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Old 09-05-2019, 08:21 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by 1919 View Post
Even though the manual states that there is a SesLevel, there is not one to be found. Unless it is behind a screwed in panel. Monitoring levels is seen in the photo..
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The voltages are not showing the same because it is in my driveway with fridge running. The voltages read the same when SOC stabilizes overnight. Will take another pic.
1919 - the SEELEVEL display would not be outside
They stick it inside/behind the panel that houses the CZONE (or FIREFLY in my case).
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With the voltages being different, it seems to me they batts. are at least not joined all the time. I do not know enough about how they react once the house goes below a certain SOC. Is the system capable of forcing a join below a certain minimum SOC? I am always plugged-in at home, camp ground, or driving - so I have no boondocking experience. The only thing I know is the BIM separates at a certain level to prevent both chassis & house from draining each other. Maybe someone else has an idea.
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Old 09-11-2019, 02:40 AM   #12
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So after the 3 day boondocking weekend, here is what happened. The chassis battery was connected somehow to the house batteries and got down to 12.16 volts. So I went under the dash and disconnected the chassis battery, the dash lights were still on, the engine would start. Confirms the connected circuits! And the CZONE still showed chassis voltage. Well then I pushed the battery boost button, or the BIM solenoid button, then it clicked a bunch of times then the chassis went dead. Well how about that. I went the CZONE display and the chassis battery showed 0 volts, as it should. Reconnected the chassis battery, drove around and charged it up. At this point it was not charging the house batteries, as the MPPT bluetooth showed. 12.6 volts. Then after the chassis battery reached a certain voltage point I heard the solenoid click, then it started to charge the house batteries, as the voltage was showing 14.3 volts. Drove for awhile, shut the engine off, disconnected the chassis battery again. Disconnected as it was supposed to be. Bad BIM, me thinks.
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Old 09-11-2019, 06:04 AM   #13
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Interesting thread.

Good reporting and good support from fellow AI team.

Good luck getting to the red X.
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Old 09-11-2019, 08:54 AM   #14
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. Bad BIM, me thinks.
1919 - that would be where I would start first. If you are still putting the Blue Sea ACR, then this would be moot and rule it out at same time. Best to you.
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