2012 Lounge battery replacement write up

[lewster]

Even with a huge battery bank and sufficiently sized inverter, you still would have very limited run time for a large load like a roof A/C.

Look up the Peukert Effect, and you will see that battery draw for large loads is exponential, not linear.

[David M]

Originally Posted by wayneskid

David,
Have you calculated how much Air Conditioner run time you would get with your current battery bank feeding a 3000W inverter? The Carrier AC on mine draws 13.5A when cooling.

Hi Wayne,
No I haven't, but as Lew and Russ points out, it probably won't run the a/c for very long. And realistically, it's probably very difficult to add enough batteries for such a chore with the limited space in our Interstates. I'm going to have to see how Roadtrek does it with their e-Trek (assuming their claim is legit).
David

[UKDUDE]

Originally Posted by lewster

Even with a huge battery bank and sufficiently sized inverter, you still would have very limited run time for a large load like a roof A/C.

Look up the Peukert Effect, and you will see that battery draw for large loads is exponential, not linear.

How does RoadTrek manage it on their E-Trek? They clain up to 9 hours of A/C use from a single charge.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by UKDUDE

How does RoadTrek manage it on their E-Trek? They clain up to 9 hours of A/C use from a single charge.

A bank of EIGHT house batteries, coupled with a 245-watt solar panel, 5000-watt inverter, and an engine-driven generator in place of a separate propane generator.

Even then, their web page proudly advertises:

Eight Auxiliary AGM Batteries: These are designed to give you "off the grid" power for hours, depending on what you run and environmental factors. They will charge quickly and easily from solar and the engine generator due to a comprehensive charging and electrical control system.

Off-the-grid power for hours. Not days. And that's with four times as many amp-hours.

I'm not impressed, despite the hype.

[David M]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

Off-the-grid power for hours. Not days. And that's with four times as many amp-hours.

I'm not impressed, despite the hype.

Yeah, I'm not too impressed either. There's a point of diminishing returns and I may be at that point with the solar panel upgrade. I think I'll just live with not being able to run the air off of batteries.

[Rain]

We replaced the batteries in our 2010 Airstream Interstate with 2 lifeline high capacity 6V batteries. The new batteries upgrade the capacity substantially and are model number GPL-6CT. These batteries fit perfectly in the existing battery box, the only modifications required were cutting a 3/8" piece of plywood to fit in the top cover of the battery box acting as both a hold down and an insulator to the top of the box since the the top cover of the battery box could create a short. The end of the positive cable was also cut off and terminated to a ring terminal instead of a clamp and the battery salesman did that for free in a matter of minutes. This upgrade has given us 300 AH of capacity versus the 160 AH from the factory batteries. This translates to over double the minutes due to the large plates of the 6V deep cycles.

in terms of Tripp Lite inverter/charger switch settings, this write up has it correct with one very important caveat applicable to all batteries connected, factory or otherwise. Switching to the higher charge rate (11A vs 55A) has a potentially unintended consequence regardless of the installed batteries since it is before the load shedding circuitry. In the 11 amp position the inverter/charger will supply no more than 11 amps to the batteries regardless of the battery state of charge. Similarly in the 55 amp (apparently 45 in some models but my part number is 55 amps) position the inverter/charger will limit the battery to 55 amps max.

The potential problem is that if the batteries (whatever is installed) are run down and draw a high current the inverter/charger will not have enough power remaining to run the AC or the oven, when the generator is on. So, if your batteries run down (as is normal camping), you start the generator and then turn on the AC or the oven or anything else high draw, then the generator will kick off. This is because the generator can't supply the 55 amps for the battery charge and the other appliances. The cure is simple, if this happens switch the charge dip switch back up to limit the battery to 11 amps. Don't let this impact your trip or go to a mechanic, just flip the switch...

The only downside is that it will take longer to charge the batteries back up. For example, the new batteries at 50% discharge (150 AH) would take over 13 hours to recharge (13.6 hours x 11 Amps) versus 2.7 hours in the 55 amp position. This is a rare anomaly but has caused many owners to interrupt their trip to chase down a non-existent failure, sometimes at great expense. Of course this only happens when you are camping and run the batteries low causing them to draw a high recharge current. It's an easy fix, flip the DIP switch to 11 amps and carry-on if this happens. The generator won't cut out and everything will work normally again. If this is too hard to remember leave the switch in the 11 amp position and suffer long recharge times. This is the factory default and the reason many people never get their batteries back to full charge, they just don't plug-in or run the generator long enough, even with the 160AH factory batteries.

Also it is very important to ensure the batteries are fully charged prior to any storage. We have the factory solar panel which is sufficient to keep the batteries charged but not sufficient to recharge them. We keep the Airstream at home and plug it in overnight after each use with the switch in the high charge position. If we ran the batteries completely down and had to recharge in the 11 amp position it would take about 27 hours (300AH/11A = 27.3 Hours). In the 55 amp position it is just about 5 1/2 hours to recharge. This is also important to know if you stop for one night at campground and want to fully recharge, the 55 or 45 amp position is required for an overnight recharge.

In terms of battery life, the GPL-6CT batteries are rated at over 1100 cycles and if you read the curves, in our usage pattern of weekend camping running the generator once for about an hour, recharge before storage, they will provide about 5000 cycles. This compares with 200 or so cycles with Trojans or other "wet" batteries. In addition, when fully charged they only self discharge at 2% per month so they store very well. Just be sure to turn off the big red switch and the fridge thermostat to ensure everything is actually off. Also these batteries have a 5 year warranty, are Mil-Spec, are not harmed by being totally frozen and can be completely discharged multiple times (which should be avoided) without damage. They can be purchased for about $340 each locally in southern California including installation. This is expensive but you double your usable power and increase the lifetime by a factor of ten and get a 5 year warranty.

This is a great upgrade, which now allows us full weekend camping and no worries running the tank heaters overnight!

[73shark]

Were you able to use the existing cables to connect the batteries in series as opposed to the original parallel hook up?

[PSchw]

Originally Posted by Rain

We replaced the batteries in our 2010 Airstream Interstate with 2 lifeline high capacity 6V batteries. The new batteries upgrade the capacity substantially and are model number GPL-6CT. These batteries fit perfectly in the existing battery box, the only modifications required were cutting a 3/8" piece of plywood to fit in the top cover of the battery box acting as both a hold down and an insulator to the top of the box since the the top cover of the battery box could create a short. The end of the positive cable was also cut off and terminated to a ring terminal instead of a clamp and the battery salesman did that for free in a matter of minutes. This upgrade has given us 300 AH of capacity versus the 160 AH from the factory batteries. This translates to over double the minutes due to the large plates of the 6V deep cycles.

in terms of Tripp Lite inverter/charger switch settings, this write up has it correct with one very important caveat applicable to all batteries connected, factory or otherwise. Switching to the higher charge rate (11A vs 55A) has a potentially unintended consequence regardless of the installed batteries since it is before the load shedding circuitry. In the 11 amp position the inverter/charger will supply no more than 11 amps to the batteries regardless of the battery state of charge. Similarly in the 55 amp (apparently 45 in some models but my part number is 55 amps) position the inverter/charger will limit the battery to 55 amps max.

The potential problem is that if the batteries (whatever is installed) are run down and draw a high current the inverter/charger will not have enough power remaining to run the AC or the oven, when the generator is on. So, if your batteries run down (as is normal camping), you start the generator and then turn on the AC or the oven or anything else high draw, then the generator will kick off. This is because the generator can't supply the 55 amps for the battery charge and the other appliances. The cure is simple, if this happens switch the charge dip switch back up to limit the battery to 11 amps. Don't let this impact your trip or go to a mechanic, just flip the switch...

The only downside is that it will take longer to charge the batteries back up. For example, the new batteries at 50% discharge (150 AH) would take over 13 hours to recharge (13.6 hours x 11 Amps) versus 2.7 hours in the 55 amp position. This is a rare anomaly but has caused many owners to interrupt their trip to chase down a non-existent failure, sometimes at great expense. Of course this only happens when you are camping and run the batteries low causing them to draw a high recharge current. It's an easy fix, flip the DIP switch to 11 amps and carry-on if this happens. The generator won't cut out and everything will work normally again. If this is too hard to remember leave the switch in the 11 amp position and suffer long recharge times. This is the factory default and the reason many people never get their batteries back to full charge, they just don't plug-in or run the generator long enough, even with the 160AH factory batteries.

Also it is very important to ensure the batteries are fully charged prior to any storage. We have the factory solar panel which is sufficient to keep the batteries charged but not sufficient to recharge them. We keep the Airstream at home and plug it in overnight after each use with the switch in the high charge position. If we ran the batteries completely down and had to recharge in the 11 amp position it would take about 27 hours (300AH/11A = 27.3 Hours). In the 55 amp position it is just about 5 1/2 hours to recharge. This is also important to know if you stop for one night at campground and want to fully recharge, the 55 or 45 amp position is required for an overnight recharge.

In terms of battery life, the GPL-6CT batteries are rated at over 1100 cycles and if you read the curves, in our usage pattern of weekend camping running the generator once for about an hour, recharge before storage, they will provide about 5000 cycles. This compares with 200 or so cycles with Trojans or other "wet" batteries. In addition, when fully charged they only self discharge at 2% per month so they store very well. Just be sure to turn off the big red switch and the fridge thermostat to ensure everything is actually off. Also these batteries have a 5 year warranty, are Mil-Spec, are not harmed by being totally frozen and can be completely discharged multiple times (which should be avoided) without damage. They can be purchased for about $340 each locally in southern California including installation. This is expensive but you double your usable power and increase the lifetime by a factor of ten and get a 5 year warranty.

This is a great upgrade, which now allows us full weekend camping and no worries running the tank heaters overnight!

Thank you Rain very interesting.
I will dot hat when my batteries need to be replaced.
Peter

[Rain]

This is a picture of the installed batteries. Really easy. Used the existing cables (cut and terminated the positive post clamp with a ring terminal) and added one 6" cable to connect the two batteries in series. The initial post on this forum took longer to write than the install took to accomplish.

[Rain]

Yes we used the existing cables, had to remove one (not needed in series) and add a little six inch one to connect the two batteries in series.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by Rain

This is a picture of the installed batteries. Really easy. Used the existing cables (cut and terminated the positive post clamp with a ring terminal) and added one 6" cable to connect the two batteries in series. The initial post on this forum took longer to write than the install took to accomplish.

Thanks Rain - nice write-up. Looks like your picture didn't make it in the post. I've found that uploading pictures to this forum can be frustrating at times.

Wish I could get those tall GPL-6CT batteries into my 2013 Ext Lounge's battery box, but they are just too tall. They are 3 inches taller than the GPL-4CT. The Ext Lounge models have a different battery box that the standard lounge models.

[russ240]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971;

Wish I could get those tall GPL-6CT batteries into my 2013 Ext Lounge's battery box, but they are just too tall. They are 3 inches taller than the GPL-4CT. The Ext Lounge models have a different battery box that the standard lounge models.

I don't have any extra height in my 2012 Lounge (non-extended) either. There must be variations in the battery box design from year to year as well as ext to non-ext.

[lewster]

Don't forget that you can place Lifelines in any orientation except upside down. That might increase your mounting options.

I regularly place them on their sides in low clearance situations.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by lewster

Don't forget that you can place Lifelines in any orientation except upside down. That might increase your mounting options.

I regularly place them on their sides in low clearance situations.

Great tip Lew! I think a side mount would make it easier to mount some Lifeline GPL-4CTs under my Interstate just behind the rear tires.

[Rain]

Our battery Box fit the taller GPL-6CT batteries with the cover. However, since the batteries are sealed there is no need to put the cover back on the box. We considered doing that in lieu of using a piece of plywood inside the cover box to protect from shorts from the cover itself. You may want to see if the batteries fit in the box without the cover. That's actually what the supplier suggested when we used their "dummy" battery for a fit check and they indicated it was the most common solution for the taller batteries. We had a piece of plywood handy so we chose the route of using the cover but without the cover there was an additional 3 inches available for a total of 6 inches. The 300AH of the GPL-6CT's versus the 220AH of the GPL-4CT's (much less the original 160AH batteries) made the change and price truly worth it. I'd put them in without the cover in a heartbeat. In fact, we would have put in the GPL-L16T 400AH batteries without the cover but the supplier had no dummy and it was too close in length to ensure fitment. In retrospect I should have made my own dummy but we love the 300AH upgrade.

[wayneskid]

One concern with leaving the cover off the battery box is having the terminals exposed. There is a lot of stored energy in two 300Ah batteries! Having a metal tool fall across the terminals could create a very violent event!

[Rain]

Indeed, we used thick rubber boots on the connections which eliminates that hazard. The reinstall of the cover was a bonus.

[Rain]

Also, I believe you have the same battery box which would indicate you can use the GPL-6CT's with the plywood resulting in a very clean, easy and safe install should you chose to upgrade. Unfortunately I've had no luck posting pictures.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Rain

Also, I believe you have the same battery box which would indicate you can use the GPL-6CT's with the plywood resulting in a very clean, easy and safe install should you chose to upgrade. Unfortunately I've had no luck posting pictures.

In place of plywood, you might consider using a small plastic cutting board, which will be thinner and not subject to rot or other degradation over time.

[EddieTheWire]

Thanks, Interstate guys, for posting your experiences with coach battery replacement and solar upgrades.

Today I got two Lifeline GPL-6CT's stuffed into the battery box of my Lounge model. It was a bit of a squeeze, but they fit, and now I have 300Ah ready to go. The old Discover EV24-A-A batteries wouldn't hold any charge at all after just 22 months since we bought the rig new. We were pretty rough on them, though, running them down to zip a number of times.

I also installed a second propane solenoid switch in the control panel area, and added a 100W solar panel from AM Solar on the rear roof (ditched that crazy round digital TV antenna - never got more than one or two oddball stations even when parked in large cities!)

Just a couple notes for those considering doing these same ideas floating around for us folks who like to roll 'unplugged':

1) the second cutoff switch for propane - easy access to wire '68' is available in that thick bundle under the curbside cup holder - no need to grovel around under your rig (see photo). Just find the red wire marked with the number 68 - cut it and connect the wires for your switch. Route the wires up and around like others have done and put in a nice lighted rocker switch next to the water heater switches. Radio Shack has a nice switch for $5 - just add a ground wire from the switch to a bare metal lug you add to the Sprinter metal wall behind the control panel and you have a nice indicator light to tell you your propane is on and flowing.

2) the GPL-6CT's - I guess I'm one of the guys blessed with a deeper battery box, since I made them fit. However, I don't know what folks are saying about adding a short cable to connect the two 6V Lifelines in series - there is more than enough cable in that battery box when you change from parallel to series connection! I ended up with several extra cable pieces of red conductors. Just orient one battery opposite the other and you can connect them in series with the cables from the factory if you do it right. You will need to cut off the big 'car battery' terminal and replace it with a lug snitched from the other red cable you won't need.

I removed the bottommost plywood pad (from the battery box) to squeeze out another half-inch, and raised the battery cover lid up an inch or so by drilling out the two rivets attaching the lid hinge and re-riveting the hinge to be unfolded in the latched position. That allowed me to still use the factory battery box cover (adjust the latch a little) and it all fits just nicely under the seat. I didn't bother with either of the battery hold-downs; just stuffed in some closed cell foam blocks from the battery shipping cartons to make the batteries stay nice and snug in their little house.

Speaking of batteries, I received a great price and great customer service from Marc at Centex in Texas. Authorized Dealer Lifeline GPL-6CT Battery $ 360.00

3) added solar - Roger at AM Solar in Oregon was a great help, and now I have an extra 100W (added to the factory 50W panel) to get my Lifeline's charged. I wouldn't recommend digging out all the roof goop to get at the wire bundle (the wires for the power awning, backup camera, TV coax), but instead drill a new hole for solar panel conductors with suitable weather seal. I dug out that stuff and routed the new 10AWG wire though the same batch of wiring, but it was a hassle. The wires run down the curbside rear pillar of the van just nicely, coming out near the battery box and into the wiring nerve center under the couch. Piece of cake to wire it in, since the factory solar panel wires are sitting there staring at you in the same area under the couch (yellow and green wires - yellow is labeled 'solar').
AM Solar included a 10AWG wiring kit with 15' of wire - I had to snip off just 6" of each - that worked out well. Goodbye to that goofy 'is that a satellite dish?' antenna that never worked well (yes, I switched on the booster. Anyone else get meager reception like we did?)


Thanks again to the many guys who forged ahead before me and shared their hard-won wisdom....