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Old 05-13-2019, 12:25 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Lily&Me View Post
This article popped up this morning, and I’m pondering contacting my vet about a vaccine for Lily before heading out on summer travels.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-..._campaign=news

Wondering if others are doing this, and what people’s experience with snakes has been.

Thanks in advance!

Maggie
Thanks for sharing. Great article but the distribution areas listed is a little inaccurate. We have coral snakes, rattlers, copperheads and, water moccasins . I live in SE Texas and have places in central and north Texas and all 3 places have all 4 listed venomous snakes. Rattle snakes are a less numerous in SE TX but they are there. All the TX beaches have rattle snakes beyond the dunes too. Being careful and aware everywhere in nature is the ticket and fun times can still be had.
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Old 05-13-2019, 02:26 PM   #16
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I attended a snake presentation given by a local vet (open to the public) so that might be an option for you. My best friend's dog was bitten by a snake during a hike with our dogs at a local hike and bike trail. She didn't realize it had happened until the next day when she noticed his right shoulder was swollen. She took him to the vet and the anti venom was administered but it was too late. Her dog was taken to a specialty animal hospital to try to save him and over the next 3 days, his skin peeled off (he was in a medically induced coma). Needless to say, she had to let him go. Just be as proactive with preventative measures as possible.
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Old 05-13-2019, 04:46 PM   #17
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Interesting article on AS Addicts..

Very Important for all dog owners

BENADRYL FOR SNAKE BITES

This article was written by a veterinarian of the United Waterfowlers Forum.

"First, let me say that I have been a vet for 23 years in N Florida. We treat probably an average of 15 snake bites a year. That would translate to over 300 snake bite cases I have treated, or been involved in. So my opinions are not based on what happened to one dog, or my neighbor's dog or even the 2 dogs that have been bitten that I personally owned. So not only have I treated a lot, but since I do treat so many, I stay current with current treatment options and what works best (based on data, not stories).

So, here goes with some absolutes about snakes. The things that follow are facts that I have either observed or read or both.

-There is no magic time for how long until treatment. get them there as soon as you safely can. I have saved dogs that were bitten 24 hours prior and had patients die that I saw within 30 minutes. The exception is if there is a bite to the tongue or inside of mouth that may cause breathing issues. I have never seen a bite to the nose cause life threatening breathing issues.

-You do not need to make any effort whatsoever to "get the snake" to take it to the vet. If it is poisonous and causes swelling, we know what to do. The only other poisonous snake in FL is the coral and it does not cause swelling. Unless it is some released species and we will not have antivenin anyway.

-Antivenin (antivenom) is NOT an antidote (meaning it cures). I rarely give it anymore. There are situations where I think it is best to give it, but I have found very little prediction of survival based on antivenin administration. There are some cases that are so bad, you had better use everything you have (bites to the trunk (body) of small dogs or cats).

-Benadryl (Diphenhydramine) is NEVER wrong to give and almost always, if not always, will help the patient. The liquid is nearly as fast as an injection. 1mg per pound of body weight (or Children's Liquid, generic is fine - 1 tsp for every 12.5 pounds of body weight if they are bitten).

-Treatment by a veterinarian will ALWAYS result in less disease for the patient. Absolutely, many patients will survive without veterinary treatment. But snake venom is a huge protein and huge proteins are deposited on the basement membrane of the kidneys when filtered. This leads to immune related injury to the kidneys from snake bites that may not be clinically relevant, but could lead to permanent kidney damage that could affect them later in life. Intravenous fluids reduces this risk as well as keeps the patient well hydrated to get rid of the venom and reduce the toxins built up from necrotic (dead) tissue resulting from snake bites. Simply put, if you want to increase the dogs chances of survival and less long term disease, take them to the vet.

-Moccasins are the least toxic, copperheads next (we have tons of them around here) and rattlesnakes are the worst. Moccasins may have more tissue toxicity-damage local tissue and pain-but they are the least toxic of the snakes. But they can still kill a dog.

A lot of factors play a role in the odds for the dog:

*Location of bite-nose, face, head, legs, trunk of body (best to worst)
*time of year-fall snakes have been actively feeding and have less stored venom, spring snakes have more likelihood of having stored venom from less recent feeding
*amount of injection - a miss or an oblique bite that does not get full injection
*species of snake
*size of snake (more venom = more serious)
*prior history of bites improves patients odds (more immune response to the venom)

-anyone, vet or otherwise, can NOT predict which dog will live and which will survive by looking at them, or even by running tests. there are just so many variables. I can often tell someone that the odds are bad or that the odds are good, but sometimes I am wrong. I still get surprised.

IV fluids are the single most important factor that we can control in helping a snake bite victim recover with the minimal amount of disease, with benadryl being second. Some patients are going to die, no matter if they were in a veterinary University Teaching Hospital at the time of the bite and there is NOTHING that could have been done to save them. I have had patients die with 30 minutes of the bite (one was a Jack Russel bit in the side of the chest, the other was an American Bulldog bit between 5-10 times all over the body).

If you ask me, "What can I do to make the odds the best in my dog's favor that it will not die from a snake bite?", I would say:

a) keep benadryl in your dog first aid kit - Children's Liquid, generic is fine. Give them 1 tsp for every 12.5 pounds of body weight if they are bitten.

b get your dog to a vet if they are bitten as soon as reasonably possible - do not be over-dramatic and get in a car accident to get there, but do not stop at the dry cleaners on the way either. Proceed with due haste."

;
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Old 05-13-2019, 05:29 PM   #18
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Thatís an interesting article, and thanks for posting.

I keep capsule Benadryl, and will pick up some of the liquid...just in case.

It is a lot frightening to read about how serious a bite from a rattlesnake can be to a dog.

Makes me feel a bit weíve been living on borrowed time, as Lily has done a lot of off leash running out west in her years.

Maggie
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Old 05-14-2019, 09:15 AM   #19
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One other thing to be concerned about are mushrooms. In the spring of 2015 after some rains, my back yard in OR had some mushrooms pop up. I didn't really think much of it - I'd kick over those I came across.


One night before going to bed, I let my shepherd out (he's really bad about scavenging). I typically let them out and they come to the back door when they want to come back in. The shepherd had been out a while so I went to the back door to get him to come in. I called and he started walking toward the house, stumbling along the way, he threw up and eventually fell over. He was acting as if he were drunk, wobbling all around and was kind of "out of it". I had to carry him back to the house and was pretty concerned.


I called the Emergency Vet in Bend and they said to bring him in as he might have eaten some mushrooms. I took him to the vet and after examining him they said he'd probably eaten mushrooms. They put him on IV fluids (not sure what if anything else they did) and kept him overnight. The next morning I went to pick him up and they recommended taking him to my regular vet to keep him on IV fluids during the day. Their concern was the poison could affect his liver and the fluids would help clear the poison out of his system. (Before I went to pick him up, I collected the vomit to bring to the vet and saw the mushroom.)


I took him to my regular vet and picked him up that afternoon and he was fine.


I called the local TV station in Bend and they ended up doing a story on dogs eating poisonous mushrooms that spring. After talking with vets in the area, they found there had been a significant number of other dogs that had to be taken in for treatment.


https://www.ktvz.com/news/bend/bend-...oning/68911105


I've also attached the flyer the local mushroom club put out.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf dog-flyer.pdf (647.3 KB, 5 views)
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Old 05-14-2019, 09:27 AM   #20
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Hmmm, good to know, and thank you.

Lily is also a scavenger, tho always only grasses that I have seen.

Sheís never forgotten once being a starving dog, and always seems to feel a need to sample things to see if they will provide sustenance.

I have never seen her eat a mushroom, the smell of which may deter her, but I have seen them in my yard and will watch her.

Maggie
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Old 05-14-2019, 10:05 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LilBigfoot View Post
Interesting article on AS Addicts..

Very Important for all dog owners

BENADRYL FOR SNAKE BITES

This article was written by a veterinarian of the United Waterfowlers Forum.

"First, let me say that I have been a vet for 23 years in N Florida. We treat probably an average of 15 snake bites a year. ............... in a car accident to get there, but do not stop at the dry cleaners on the way either. Proceed with due haste."

;
I saw this too but wanted to verify its accuracy before sharing it. Looks like it is.
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Old 05-14-2019, 10:06 AM   #22
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Simple solution here, carry a handgun of .357 or larger, loaded with shotshells....very effective!
Eastern Timber Rattlers are protected here. As they should be.
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:03 AM   #23
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I was able to speak today with one of the vets at the Clinic we use, who knows nothing about snake bite vaccine....has never given it, nor treated a dog bit by a snake.

They need a shot, then another in 30 days, and we will be on the road in a couple of weeks, so it is almost a moot issue but I wanted to hear what they had to say.

He recommended talking with a vet in the area where snakes are present, also to carry the liquid Benadryl and give her the recommended dose as an emergency measure.

Iím going to do that, then do some research once we are west and get the local scoop on these vaccines out there.

The liquid Benadryl seems a good thing to carry in our first aid kits, for human or pets, as it gets into the system much faster than the pills and might be helpful for other incidents such as multiple bee stings.

Just updating.

Maggie
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Old 05-15-2019, 07:57 PM   #24
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Our Dimmit was bitten on the nose by a rattlesnake. I immediately gave him Benadryl and removed his collar, then took him to the vet who administered a steroid shot and an antibiotic. His head swelled up, but he survived. I have since had both my dogs vaccinated against snakebite, which I am told, lessens the symptoms but is not necessarily a cure-all.
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Old 05-16-2019, 07:12 PM   #25
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Please be careful with the liquid benadryl. I have seen some comments on other hiking pages that it may contain xylitol and that is dangerous for dogs. Also our vet said to make sure it is the basic benadryl and NOT have extra benefits/additives. (Like the allergy plus which is for congestion that could cause negative side effects). This was for regular allergeries our dog has in the spring time but I would assume he recommended the basic so that it doesn't have other medicines that would cause a negative reaction. But please talk to your vet for specifics on the different Benadryls and your situation. I would hate to see someone give their dog the wrong Benadryl with xylitol and cause another issue other than just the snake bite.
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Old 05-16-2019, 07:21 PM   #26
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Here is a link on it as well...it also mentions in the article Benadryl can react to other medicines your dog already takes so it is best to speak to your vet.

https://wagwalking.com/wellness/benadryl-for-dogs
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Old 05-16-2019, 07:27 PM   #27
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Thanks for that info.

My vet did specify plain Benadryl, not with decongestant.

Maggie
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Old 05-19-2019, 10:21 AM   #28
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Search for Rattlesnake avoidance or aversion training. Here is one example from the Left Coast: http://socalrattlesnakeavoidancetrai...m/Schedule.php
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