Pets, Barking and Whines - A Sane Discussion Please

[3237]

I'd like to have a sane discussion on barking dogs, dog that whine, wimper and howl when they are away, owners that are yelling or stage whispering "shhish" (sic) "quiet" or owners that know about the whining and wimpering.

I am a pet owner. My dog barks when someone approaches me or the rig. 2 or 3 times then stops. When left in the trailer - he sleeps. I always ask the neighbors if he has been a problem or barked and am told no. I leave a note on my door with the cellphone - that if the dog is problem call and I will come take care of it.

What is it with fellow airstream owners that own every toy - that will not invest in a bark collar to "train" or break their dogs of the "anxiety" or loneliness bark? Think that verbally correcting the dog is going to work - Now we are listening to the owner as well as the dog?

What is it with owners that when approached if their dog was alright 'cause it has been wimpering and whining for the last 6 to 8 hours - respond with "oh yea we know - lot's of times we can hear her when we pull into a campground?" Well what about the rest of us that just spent our saturday listening to your dog? and you know this goes on and on? You are well seasoned campers. Don't think that cause you're seniors this behavior is any more acceptable.

What can we do about the OWNERS who need training.
1) Yes, dogs are pets and our friends.
2) Protective barking is one thing
3) Lonely yapping and anxiety barking are trainable and unacceptable.
4) Consideration of your neighbors should be more important than the noise our dogs create.
5) Even other pet (dog owners) don't like the barking.

What would be the outcome if dogs were just banned at rallies?
or
That all dogs must use a bark collar or other anti bark device (silent to humans)?

Dogs that go on as mentioned above are miserable to begin with.
Training is humane not training is cruel to the animal and the rest of us.
Comments, Suggestions?

Anyone similar to the above - please join the dialog.

[MaShep]

Here is another thread that ran a few months ago > http://www.airforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9739
For me, it's a problem that equals dogs who are not kept on leash and people who don't clean up after their pets. Sure makes it rough on the rest sometimes.

[67caravel]

For those of us who believe our dogs are as important as anyone else's children, we would never dream of leaving our dogs in a situation where they would be uncomfortable or stressed for any length of time.

As I often say, "would you do that to your child?". In other words, would you lock your child in your trailer for hours? A "no bark collar" as you suggest does not eliminate the loneliness or anxiety, it eliminates the barking. Your dog is likely just as stressed as before. Some are perfectly comfortable with the situation, others are not. Not a fix, IMHO.

We go to extremes to make sure that our dogs are cared for and tended to and that means putting ourselves in their shoes and treating them just as you would treat a child. Of course, we don't put our children on leashes because there aren't leash laws for children yet... Good idea!

I think if everyone were to be a bit more responsible it would solve the problem. We park far away from everyone so we don't affect others with our dogs (they don't bark because they are never left alone). Sure, it means giving up the trip to the mall or taking them to restaurants where they can dine outside with us. But they are worth it.

BTW, we "pack out" their poop.

[ALANSD]

well stated. The issue with pets and children, becomes similiar in that some folks take them for granted.
People who throw out their trash at the campsites, leave their dogs tied up or shut in for hours and hours....let their kids run wild, all symptoms of the self centered non cooperative nature. Watch folks at the beach letting thier dogs crap on the public walk areas, and throwing their cigarette butts out on the sand....or dumoing ashtrays out the door at a stop light...don't get me started!!!

[Happycampers]

Hello.. would not use one.. we had invisible fencing and it has turned our Lhasa into a neurotic dog .. only experienced the shock once.. but it was the warning beeps that have so traumatised our precious pet.. believe me , we worked with the people who sell this .. any beep of any kind sends him into shaky fits.. never will use anything like that again.. and definitely not a barking collar.. invisible fencing was gone immediately.. Our Toby is too precious to us to use any devices of any kind.. even it is supposed to be kind..Marvin and Annie

[67caravel]

Originally Posted by happy82301

Hello.. would not use one.. we had invisible fencing and it has turned our Lhasa into a neurotic dog .. only experienced the shock once.. but it was the warning beeps that have so traumatised our precious pet.. believe me , we worked with the people who sell this .. any beep of any kind sends him into shaky fits.. never will use anything like that again.. and definitely not a barking collar.. invisible fencing was gone immediately.. Our Toby is too precious to us to use any devices of any kind.. even it is supposed to be kind..Marvin and Annie

A "spot on" reply. Very true! We used to field search and rescue dogs and would never dream of using a shock collar (either remote controlled or as part of an "invisible fence") because of correlation issues. You never know what the dog might be correlating the shock or "beep" to. It is probably not to the wire buried in the ground but to something that makes sense to them; a tree or other landmark. They might see a similar "landmark" while on a search and it might affect their performance in possibly saving a life...

[Janet H]

Our neighbors had a barky dog for several years - they also tried a bark collar. The end result was bizarre.... The dog would bark once (or twice) be "disciplined" by the collar then whine in discomfort or frustration. What we heard daily - repeatedly, was:

bark
brief silence
whine

bark
brief silence
whine

bark
brief silence
whine

over and over and over and over and over........

[Rhodie]

Originally Posted by Xray

For those of us who believe our dogs are as important as anyone else's children, we would never dream of leaving our dogs in a situation where they would be uncomfortable or stressed for any length of time.

I'm with Xray, our dog is one of the family and we would not place him in that situation. If we intended to camp and leave the dog, and this dog barked and whined when alone, we would not leave him to be miserable along with bothering everyone else around us. Shock training IMHO is barbaric.

It's all about the dog around here and Ernie goes where we go or we don't go. Part of the reason to get an AS is so we can all go!

BTW, our 19' bambi ccd goes into production the 29th...yipeeee!

[Stefrobrts]

I own a barky dog, I'll admit it. She just loves to 'talk'! 'Talks' about EVERYTHING day and night at home, drives us nuts. We've had her for ten years and she was like this the day she came home, and she'll probably go out of this world barking I would NEVER use a shock collar on her, or one of those spray collars. I think she has a right to vocalize just like anyone else.

The odd part is that she's actually quiet when left alone, unless someone comes too close. That's because she really is communicating with us, not just barking out of loneliness. So we do sometimes leave them in the trailer and go out to dinner. No complaints yet. But my preference is to take them everywhere with us when we travel. That way they're never out of my sight and I know they're safe. I've watched from a distance as people walked right up to the car they were in and she just watches them through the window "I don't know you, so I don't have anything to say to you".

But when we come back to the trailer, whether or not they were left alone or if they are with us, there's always some barking. Can't be helped. We tell her to 'be quiet' and she does after a few barks. We try hard not to let her get going at night.

We had a trainer one time who directed us to tell her one 'be quiet' and then if she didn't immediately stop, catch her and squeeze a few drops of lemon juice in her mouth. This resulted in her barking like mad, and then barking as a great chase through the house ensued, only to get some nasty lemon juice in her mouth. She'd give me a dirty look like "well, you're no fun", and stalk away. I felt like a heel, and I don't think she ever associated the lemon juice with the barking. This is one of the training methods I tried but didn't work. She's my first dog, so I took a lot of 'expert' advice that I now know better. Shaking cans with pennies in them caused her to bark more - "Wow! did you hear that? What was that? Let me see!" as she's bouncing up and down like a little circus dog trying to get the can!

Anyway, we try to be responsible pet owners, not to leave her alone, not to let her get going at night when she'd disturb others. Dogs who bark because they're alone are scared or lonely, and their owners should care enough not to leave them alone if they're like that. Not everyone is that in tune with their dogs, or has sense enough to care. Or they just put their enjoyment of going out ahead of their dogs (and neighbors) discomfort. But you can't change the way other people handle their pets, if we could I'd do something about my idiot neighbors who's dogs 'live' in a dog run behind their house (when they're not running loose because they've escaped - they're on their third dog in five years, the other two got hit by cars!)

But rules to ban dogs just annoy those of us who follow the rules, and those who ignored them before will ignore them anyway. I've been to local parks that ban dogs only to see folks breaking the rules and playing with their dogs, while I left mine at home!

[Cedars]

DOGS, DOGS, BARKING, WHINING, YAPPING DOGS!
What a subject. Personaly, I hate barkers, really hate them.
Something that helps stop the uncontrolled barking when the owner is absent from the dog is simple: confinement. Pure and simple. Either confine the animal to a small space (think bathroom here) or crate the critter! Crates are not a cruel device, rather, they, if used properly, contribute to a dog's sense of security. A crate is den-like to a dog, a safe place. I keep one set up all the time for my dogs. Each uses it as wanted, both use it to nap in. One of the funniest sights I have seen is each of my standard poodles exit the crate one at a time, followed by one of our cats! That was one hundred ten pounds of dog followed by twenty one pounds of cat! All in a kennel claimed to be the size for one forty pound dog!
Crates serve many purposes, come in many sizes and styles. The most practical for a travel trailer would most likely be a wire folding variety. These are available from http://www.petedge.com/ (and other sources), fold to about four inches in thickness and are easy to store.
This link will take you directly to the folding crate page:
http://www.petedge.com/jump.jsp?item...itemType=INDEX
As an aside, these crates can be covered quickly with a sheet, towel or the like, to provide more privacy, or semi darkness for the dog.
I routinely travel with two of the largest size made (48L X 30W X 36 H) and I know one that size will set up inside our 31' Excella and still leave us a little space around it!

Elizabeth in Iowa

[rfield54]

Originally Posted by Stefrobrts

I own a barky dog, I'll admit it. She just loves to 'talk'! 'Talks' about EVERYTHING day and night at home, drives us nuts. We've had her for ten years and she was like this the day she came home, and she'll probably go out of this world barking

Stephany,

Chances are that what you consider "talking" by your dog, are actually annoying "obsenities" to people who enjoy solitude . . . day or night. By the way, I too am a dog owner.

[Stefrobrts]

It's possible This is why I try to spare others from having to listen to her conversations - however I quite enjoy her at home! Her personality is so bubbly and happy I would hate to change it for the worse by stifling her self expression

I perfer camping sites away from others whenever possible, and the others probably appreciate that too! BTW, neither pooch is attending the VAC rally with us, so no worries there.

[InsideOut]

BTW, neither pooch is attending the VAC rally with us, so no worries there.

Thought we'd have to re-do the parking...again!

It's enough of a moving target as it is...and noooo, I can't tell you (or anybody else) your site number yet ~

Shari

[LeeMo]

I would suggest a loving and constructive method of training your dog. My favorite dog trainer is Mathew Margolis (Uncle Matty) and founder of The National Institute of Dog Training. The pioneer of "love, praise and affection" training, Uncle Matty emphasizes that there is never a good reason to hit, yell at, or punish a dog.

Uncle Matty has had a series of broadcasts on PBS titled, "Woof! It's a Dog's Life." One broadcast featured him correcting the "Agressive behavior" of a dog barking at oncoming strangers in less than 5 minutes. He is amazing!

I recommend you visit his website http://www.matthewmargolis.com. The website is very animated and informative. Do some reading on his website and if you like, he has a number of video/DVD products that could help you.

Give it a try, and by all means don't use the Bark Collar or the Crate to terrorize your pet! I hope this is helpful.

[Stefrobrts]

I've seen Uncle Matty's show a few times, and he's pretty impressive. I'll check out his website. Thanks!

BTW, our noisy dog is crate trained as well. She loves her crate, and often plays in it for fun. It's definitly not terrorizing if they're introduced to it when they're puppies!

[overlander64]

I have traveled with one or more Chihuahuas most of my life. One thing that I learned when beginning to RV after a stint of not owning an RV was that my Chihuahua who had never been in an RV tended to bark at nearly any and every noise if I weren't present (she was 10 years old when we made our first RV trip and had survived the trauma five years earlier of being evacuated from our bedroom window into a rescue boat during the floods of 1993).

At the suggestions of friends in the "pet section", I tried a "barks no more" device, and she would bark once and when corrected by the device would shriek as if she were being attacked - - I was very relieved to have tested the device while I was near the coach as it was removed immediately. In the end, she never adapted to RVing, she did, however come to accept the trailer as her home which reduced the barking considerably (she would still bark whenever someone came within her territory - - an approximate 3' perimeter around the coach). To get her to accept the trailer as her home, we spent most of our time together in the trailer for at least a week before departing - - she had her special bed, toys, food, and water bowl in familiar locations; all of which seemed to increase her security in the trailer.

My current two Chihuahuas were both introduced to RVing while they were young, recently weaned puppies. I actually introduced the puppies to my Airstream before taking them into the house - - to this day, I tend to believe that they perceive the Airstream as home. They have been nearly ideal travelers, and individually are very quiet - - the only time that they tend to make any noise is when they decide to play - - the problem was that their preferred play time was in the wee hours of the morning; the solution has been that each has a pet porter to sleep in and they have been trained to go to the porter at bed time and when in the RV the doors are closed (no more early a.m. play sessions). They will bark, however, if someone is speaking loudly in close proximity to the coach or when anyone knocks on the door or side of the coach. (The little 2.5 pound female is spoiled - - she rides on the passenger seat in the Suburban with the seat heater set to high; and she knows if she whimpers just once at night that I will let her get under my covers - - by morning she has usually burrowed under my pillows and is asleep at the head of my bed curled up next to the wall bolster under the pillows.)

With my current two Chihuahus, I leave their pet porters open so that they can retreat to their safety zone when I am away from the coach. When checking with my neighbors after an absence, I generally hear that the only time they hear anything from the pups is if someone went to the door or if someone got too close to the coach. One of the reasons that I like my toy Chihuahuas is that they are litter box/puppy pad trained so they are much easier to clean up after. My biggest shock at one rally was when I returned after being away on a tour for the entire day, and my neighbors didn't even realize that I had dogs in the coach (for some reason they hadn't barked all day) - - I was royaly scolded when I opened the door upon return by two quizzical faces saying "how dare you leave us without attention for so long" - - they had also found some tissue paper and the coach was adorned with tissue confetti.

With all of my Chihuahuas, I have found that they are far more apt to bark when at a Rally with minimal electric where they are exposed to outside noises. When at Rallys where electric service allows air conditioning, I run my air conditioner (sometimes just on the fan setting) to avoid opening the windows (I have a two-fold reason - - it helps to keep the pups quiet and it is better for my allergies and asthma).

Kevin

Kevin

[67caravel]

Kevin,

Sounds like you found a solution. Seems like many of us who have experiences with shock and "no-bark" collars shudder at the thought of using them...

As we all know, some breeds are more prone to barking than others. When upset, our Jack Russell barks a lot and of our three dogs, he is the most prone to create a problem if left to his own devices. Fortunately, he was born in an RV in Jackson Hole and spent his first 8 weeks traveling. He loves our CCD and does very well camping!

[67caravel]

Anyone else notice the 'Google' targeted ads that appear at the top of this thread? They rotate and the last one I saw was a series of "no bark" collar links...

Arrrrr!

[LeeMo]

Originally Posted by Stefrobrts

BTW, our noisy dog is crate trained as well. She loves her crate, and often plays in it for fun. It's definitly not terrorizing if they're introduced to it when they're puppies!

After I posted the thread, I thought my wording might have been a bit harsh and out of context. The crates are good things; my brother's pups have made their wire crate their home and domain. What I wanted to convey was not to use the crate as a "solitary confinement" punishment tool. Uncle Matty discusses this concept as well.

Looks like you are getting great input from lots of nice folks who really love their pets. Good Luck!

[silver suz]

I have just the opposite problem- Teaching my quiet dog into barking like crazy, when I go down in a seizure. I don't want her to turn into a barking dog. But I am counting on people to be attracted to the barking (even if annoyed) and then see her medic alert- service dog cape. I'll certainly check out Uncle's site! thanks, suz