Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-19-2008, 09:02 PM   #57
3 Rivet Member
 
rettoc625's Avatar
 
2003 22' International CCD
Ledyard , Connecticut
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 153
Images: 2
Here is another really good website discussing dog behavior and why dogs do what they do.

Turid Rugaas - Calming Signals Community

Mary
__________________

__________________
Sir Logan Foxhall, OAP, OJP, NAC, NCC, CL1, PS1, PJ1, CGC
Sir Blaze Foxhall, Let the Games Begin!!!

The more I try to understand people, the better I like my dog.
rettoc625 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2008, 09:17 PM   #58
Moderator
 
Stefrobrts's Avatar

 
1968 17' Caravel
Battle Ground , Washington
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 11,906
Images: 50
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by rettoc625
Clicker train!!!! Crate train!!!! Gentle leader - where the head goes, the body follows!!!
Thanks for all the great advice. We've been working with the clicker already this week, and the obedience class we are going to take is all positive methods, and we used the clicker when I took Chester through it years ago. Luckily Chester's Gentle Leader fit Jasper perfectly, so we've been using that too when we're on walks. He could pull a tank on his regular collar! And I'm a big believer in crate training, which is the only reason we survived Alki's puppy years. Unfortunately Jasper hasn't been introduced to one as a puppy, so it's not a comforting place for him yet, and I'm sure I've hurt that myself by having to put him in there for a 'time out' when I've had enough of him! But hopefully we can work through that and get back on the positive side. Today he has been with one of us all day (we've been trading off), and he's actually done pretty well. We had one incident this afternoon where he tried to trample Alki but he was on the leash so we intervened.

Since he's not running around loose I saw Alki laying tummy-up for the first time in a week! Apparently she knew she was safe from trampling!
__________________

__________________
Stephanie




Stefrobrts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2008, 01:25 PM   #59
Moderator
 
Stefrobrts's Avatar

 
1968 17' Caravel
Battle Ground , Washington
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 11,906
Images: 50
Blog Entries: 1
Well, this has been the longest two weeks of my life! Jasper is so full of energy, and plays hard, and hardly ever sits still. He's on a leash almost all the time inside, and usually the leash is in my hand or tied to something nearby. We've been doing LOTS of training exercises, and he's doing ok with those. The cat chasing is getting better, but mostly because the cats are getting braver and when they get tired of him they smack him.

The Alki chasing has not improved though, because he doesn't listen to her when she snarls to be left alone. Partly because she's busy running away from him and trying not to get trampled. So we have to be very careful when they are out in the yard together. Sometimes he will stroll by her, other times he wants to play and chases her. He did it twice this morning and caught me off guard, the first time yanking the leash out of my hands, and the second time after he finished eating and specifically went look for her to harass and found her before I could catch his leash. He just wants to play, but he could hurt her by accident, and it scares her.

So we are still on the fence. We're working with a behaviorist the rescue put us in touch with, and if we can't get him to leave Alki alone, he will have to go back to the rescue and find a home without any small animals to chase.
__________________
Stephanie




Stefrobrts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2008, 02:01 PM   #60
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
sorry to read about the struggles stef....

larger field/hunting/gun dogs (the lab and dal) are a challenge to mix with kitties and small dogs...

and especially indoors or IF the small ones are OLD and established.

the big dogs need to be on a leash or long line while working, playing, training in short solo sessions...

and crated or in a run at all other times.

until they are 99.9% dialed in.

this can take a year for most young dogs.

letting them run loose indoors OR outside (for even a short time) only lengthens the control/learning process.

the big dogs form a pack all their own if allowed to romp together and will resist/ignore handler input while together.

all the other critters have to scatter or fight/play for rank...

and that's not easy with field dogs in the mix with older/smaller animals.

sure they settle down with aging but that takes years, which will seem like a lifetime.

and the early bad traits become fixed/established behaviors then too.

i know u r a patient caring couple, with LOTS of critter love...

so i hope this works out, but you may need to separate them and use lots of short focused training...

even on a leash the lab needs to be following u, NOT leading on walks, even 4 a second...

treats, head halters and clickers may help but becoming the alpha dog and BOSS is the key...

corrections aren't abuse IF used to mold a stable, behaved, friendly pooch.

and besides you are providing him a safe home and food and health care!

hang in there and best wishes for all the critters (2 legged and 4!)

2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2008, 03:38 PM   #61
3 Rivet Member
 
rettoc625's Avatar
 
2003 22' International CCD
Ledyard , Connecticut
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 153
Images: 2
It's a delicate balance to add another critter to the pack. They all have to sort out their place. When you add an immature Lab brain it is more of a challenge. I agree that you do need to teach Jasper that you are the leader of the pack and there are some behaviors that just won't be allowed, chasing Alki and the cats. The cats can usually establish the rule for themselves, but Alki is a special needs dog and may not have the patience or the physical ability to tell off a Lab.

It's good to work with a behaviorist, it sounds like you have some ground rules working for you. I primarily use positive reinforcement with my knuckle heads, but there are times when I could not ignore the behavior I didn't like. It is just too much fun to chase a cat! So I have squirt bottles filled with water scattered around the house and campsite. It worked wonders to teach my guys what not to do. I don't use them as much now, but only need to pick the bottle up.

My blonde golden came to us with some stress related baggage, like mounting my older golden and digging holes to China in the yard. For those behaviors I use a remote training collar. We attached the zapper to the regular invisible fence collar and can give a warning or a correction, as the case may warrant, from a distance and the correction is not associated with me.

Because Jasper and the dalmation are more evenly sized, I would let them out together - with supervision. Alki may need to be protected in an xpen or taken out separately. I would also spend more time outside alone with the new pup. He needs much more exercise, frisbee tossing or tennis balls, and he needs to establish a unique bond with you.

Don't give up! Maybe Jasper needs more than just basic obedience classes. You might consider some other high energy activities with him, like frisbee tossing classes, just to help him burn off energy. I bet he has not lived with anyone long enough in his short life that was willing to take the time to teach him manners and house rules.

My young blonde had three homes before we adopted him at 12 months old. He is such a wise guy and very fresh!! It is a challenge to help him remember the rules. We got my older guy as a little puppy, he had the advantage of puppy kindergarten, and it shows in his behavior.

Keep working with the behaviorist.

Mary
__________________
Sir Logan Foxhall, OAP, OJP, NAC, NCC, CL1, PS1, PJ1, CGC
Sir Blaze Foxhall, Let the Games Begin!!!

The more I try to understand people, the better I like my dog.
rettoc625 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2008, 04:02 PM   #62
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
here's another resource for ya stef...

my regular local vet happens to be a pretty well known veterinary behaviorist...

he is the author of several books, and many articles on pet behavior problems.

and has been specializing in this area, since before it was trendy...

his bio is online and many of his interviews...

here's a short intro to him...

An Interview with Dr. Wayne L. Hunthausen - Veterinary Medicine

i happen to agree with his view of the tv dog guy...

also one of his books just happens to be available in almost full text online as a review...

Handbook of Behavior Problems

cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2008, 05:52 PM   #63
Moderator
 
Stefrobrts's Avatar

 
1968 17' Caravel
Battle Ground , Washington
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 11,906
Images: 50
Blog Entries: 1
Well, we've discussed it quite a bit today, and decided he's going back. He's a real challenge, and everytime I think we're starting to make some progress he surprises me by doing something I wasn't expecting. Chasing Alki this morning twice in a row was the last straw. Obviously the correction for the first incident didn't sink in. I can't have a dog that is constantly in my hand or in his box, and the barking wailing tantrums he throws in his box are pretty disturbing in their own right. Plus we just can't take the risk that he will hurt Alki or the cats. We've been lucky so far, but he is big and fast and impulsive, and we only have to drop our guard for a moment for someone to get hurt. The potential is there. It just seems like we're playing with fire. So I contacted the rescue and told them we'd like to bring him back. At least by going back to the rescue he can find a home that will fit him better.
__________________
Stephanie




Stefrobrts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2008, 06:09 PM   #64
Rivet Master
 
juel's Avatar

 
1976 31' Sovereign
Currently Looking...
Chandler , Oklahoma
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,770
Images: 24
I know this was a hard choice for you, but you do have to think of your beloved Alki and her health. Have you thought about a precious "little beastie"? I never had a small dog before, having shown Standard Poodles (50 to 70 pounds). However, I'm so in love with these little Poms I can't believe it. They are active, but can't do much damage to anyone or anything.
__________________
juel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2008, 06:33 PM   #65
Moderator
 
Stefrobrts's Avatar

 
1968 17' Caravel
Battle Ground , Washington
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 11,906
Images: 50
Blog Entries: 1
I think our next dog will be a puppy from a reputable breeder. That way we can start right from the beginning. I would love another Eskimo, but that's only because Alki has been so great. There's the possibility another eskimo would have a hard time living up to her My husband has always wanted a german shepherd, but I thought a lab would be an easier fit into the family, I've heard GSDs are even more difficult. After this, I'm thinking either one is more work than we are prepared to do!

All the labs I've ever known just lived for praise, but Jasper really isn't like that at all. I think you have such a learning curve to get past when a dog hasn't been conditioned from puppyhood to look to a human for direction. Because of that I don't think we'll try another rescue dog.
__________________
Stephanie




Stefrobrts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2008, 06:49 PM   #66
Well Preserved

 
1993 21' Sovereign
Colfax , North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 20,190
Chiweenie?

We've been considering a chiweenie for whenever we are ready for a new dog. They are small, and I had no trouble training Daisy, my sister-in-law's 4 legged kid. In 8 weeks, I had trained her to know to go out, to ask to go out, sit, stay, walk on a leash, come when called, and most importantly, to stop whatever she was doing when ordered.
__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
overlander63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2008, 06:54 PM   #67
Site Team
 
azflycaster's Avatar
 
1975 25' Tradewind
Dewey , Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 12,125
Images: 62
Blog Entries: 1
It's too bad it did not work out. The safety of your other family members has to come first. You did the right thing. I am glad it is a rescue organization. I am sure they will find the right match.
__________________

Richard

Wally Byam Airstream Club 7513
azflycaster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2008, 07:05 PM   #68
Well Preserved

 
1993 21' Sovereign
Colfax , North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 20,190
Here's Daisy @ 16 weeks:
(Daisy is the one with black hair)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IM000855.JPG
Views:	64
Size:	270.2 KB
ID:	53180  
__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
overlander63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2008, 07:19 PM   #69
Moderator
 
Stefrobrts's Avatar

 
1968 17' Caravel
Battle Ground , Washington
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 11,906
Images: 50
Blog Entries: 1
Daisy's adorable I don't think I could have a dog quite that small! I'd be afraid it would get lost in the couch cushions!
__________________
Stephanie




Stefrobrts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2008, 07:35 PM   #70
Well Preserved

 
1993 21' Sovereign
Colfax , North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 20,190
She currently weighs in at about 9 pounds. She's very cute, and thinks she is a much bigger dog.
__________________

__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
overlander63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dog owners, we need help! Silver Threads The Pet Forum 9 11-26-2007 07:58 PM
Daughter needs a dog lyrikel The Pet Forum 23 08-27-2007 02:24 PM
Be careful what your dog gets into... stevecamper The Pet Forum 6 05-12-2006 04:50 PM
where do you keep the dog remcolent The Pet Forum 34 10-29-2005 03:40 PM
dog 57overlander The Pet Forum 3 10-01-2005 01:30 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.