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**Stefrobrts** · 01-17-2008, 09:47 PM

Chester and Jasper

cameront120 · 01-17-2008, 10:27 PM

Best buddies!

ROBERT CROSS · 01-18-2008, 12:55 PM

Check them ears for ya pal??

**Stefrobrts** · 01-18-2008, 01:06 PM

Chester's the only one who likes him today. He seems to have slipped into full defiant teenager mode. He had been following us from the house to the shop and hanging out with us while we worked, and he had lots of toys to chew on and Dave was playing with him and chasing him around the aisles, which Jasper enjoyed. Then the other day he didn't follow me to the shop, and headed down the driveway. So I ran the other direction, and he just watched me go and then ran the other direction! That's not how it's supposed to work. So Dave came to help and caught him way over behind the neighbor's house.

So now he has to be on a leash to go from the house to the shop. Then Dave was getting something out of the van and when he came back into the shop Jasper rushed the door, bolted past him and headed down the driveway at full speed. Dave was pretty ticked! Jasper ran across the neighbor's property and the neighbor on the other side of that has it fenced for horses, so that stopped him. I let our dogs out in the yard hoping their barking would get his attention, but he was running up and down that fenceline looking for a way out. By the time Dave caught up with him he ran back in our direction, and when he stopped to sniff the neighbor's chicken coop I tackled him.

So we're pretty unhappy with him today. I've never had a dog that wanted to run away. Our dogs have always stuck to us like glue. Of course he's only had a week. Hopefully this isn't a regular thing. Worst part is we can't keep him in the shop with us if he's going to head for the hills every time a delivery man shows up and opens the door, so he's spending the rest of the workday inside in his crate.

InsideOut · 01-18-2008, 01:40 PM

Cesar Millan

**Stefrobrts** · 01-18-2008, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InsideOut

Cesar Millan

Dang it, we don't get that channel!

mistral blue · 01-18-2008, 01:45 PM

treats!!

InsideOut · 01-18-2008, 01:46 PM

DVD?...

Shari

ROBERT CROSS · 01-18-2008, 01:58 PM

Stephanie,

I think the crate idea is good, is he in the work area with you?

Fado would do the same thing every time someone would come to the

kitchen door, door open, out he went. We started keeping him in the X-pen,

after awhile we would open the door let him walk around, then tell him to

get back in, treat when he obeyed. After he got the hang of that, we just let

him walk free and randomly tell him to get in "his" X-pen, another treat. I

really believe it's important for them to have a "space" of there own.

While traveling it's the crate, and when home it's the X-pen, Fado is never

home alone loose.

This is how he greets us now when we come home!!

Good luck with your new buddy.

**Stefrobrts** · 01-18-2008, 03:55 PM

Fado is too cute!

**Stefrobrts** · 01-19-2008, 05:23 PM

Well, I'll be honest, Jasper has just about worn out his welcome here. Last night he playfully pounced on Alki, and this morning he made three attempts to chase the cats, all while on leash, and the third time he wrenched my arm and really $(*&^% me off! When his foster mom called I was ready to send him packing. But we discussed it for a while and decided to work harder at it for a bit longer. She put me in touch with a trainer who gave me a bunch of training exercises to do with him. Hopefully these will get him under control until real obedience classes start in February. For the meantime he is on leash and 'in hand' 100% of the time, or in his crate. This seems to be the only way to stop him from playing too rough with the other animals. It has been tiring for us, but it seems to be working ok for him today.

I'm trying to have a more open and compassionate heart, as difficult as that can be when faced with untrained lab puppy exhuberance. I just have to remember that unlike Alki, who was trained from the time she was a baby, Jasper has probably never had as much attention as he is getting right now, and he needs to learn to be part of our pack, because he probably hasn't had the chance to do that before.

**azflycaster** · 01-19-2008, 05:41 PM

I can really relate to your situation. Gracie our yellow lab joined the family when she was 14 months old. She was an outside backyard dog and had very little interaction with people or other dogs. Things were a little rough at first, but settled down after a while. Jasper is still a puppy and will be until around the age of 3. Labs mature later then most other dogs. Hang in there!

juel · 01-19-2008, 06:19 PM

Anyone who can make it through the growing up phase of a Lab puppy can make it through anything. They are great older dogs; however, they are a trial getting to that stage. I have three young Siamese cats, I feel your pain. Crate training is good. All my show dogs got crate trained. Just a word of warning, Labs will eat their way through your house, your furniture, your shoes, your clothes and your AS if you leave them alone and bored.

cameront120 · 01-19-2008, 06:53 PM

Stephanie, I survived two Lab pups and can certainly sympathise. Please visit this forum and peruse the training tips:

Training Tips and Puppy Advice

There are some really knowledgable people with great advice. There are breeders and trainers on the board who have a wealth of useful information. The forum really helped me get through the puppy and teenaged months/years

If pulling is a real problem, I strongly encourage you to try a Sense-ation harness.

Dog Harness, Dog Training Supplies | Sense-ible and Sense-ation Dog Harness

I used these for both my boys to help with pulling. When a dog pulls, the harness corrects the dog by redirecting his legs. It's hard to describe, but it really does work.

Labs are a lot of work but in the end it is so worthwhile. Keep in mind, they mature slowly compared to other dogs. My two are now 3 1/2 years old and are still pups in many ways. I don't mind, they keep me on my toes and help keep me young. If I can help in any way, please just ask.

cameront120 · 01-19-2008, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juel

Anyone who can make it through the growing up phase of a Lab puppy can make it through anything. They are great older dogs; however, they are a trial getting to that stage. I have three young Siamese cats, I feel your pain. Crate training is good. All my show dogs got crate trained. Just a word of warning, Labs will eat their way through your house, your furniture, your shoes, your clothes and your AS if you leave them alone and bored.

Oh yes, agreed! A crate will become your best friend! Your dog will like it too. It will become his den, his safe place.

rettoc625 · 01-19-2008, 07:11 PM

OK, Labs - Goldens, same brain just more fur!!!

Clicker train!!!! Crate train!!!! Gentle leader - where the head goes, the body follows!!!

Karen Pryor Clickertraining | dog training and cat training info, books, videos, events

Read Karen Pryor's book - Don't shoot the dog! It will explain in non-technical terms behavior modification for dogs, whales, husbands, and kids.

I taught my special needs golden stand on a four foot therapy ball today with clicker training!!

Mary

rettoc625 · 01-19-2008, 08:02 PM

Here is another really good website discussing dog behavior and why dogs do what they do.

Turid Rugaas - Calming Signals Community

Mary

**Stefrobrts** · 01-19-2008, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rettoc625

Clicker train!!!! Crate train!!!! Gentle leader - where the head goes, the body follows!!!

Thanks for all the great advice. We've been working with the clicker already this week, and the obedience class we are going to take is all positive methods, and we used the clicker when I took Chester through it years ago. Luckily Chester's Gentle Leader fit Jasper perfectly, so we've been using that too when we're on walks. He could pull a tank on his regular collar! And I'm a big believer in crate training, which is the only reason we survived Alki's puppy years. Unfortunately Jasper hasn't been introduced to one as a puppy, so it's not a comforting place for him yet, and I'm sure I've hurt that myself by having to put him in there for a 'time out' when I've had enough of him! But hopefully we can work through that and get back on the positive side. Today he has been with one of us all day (we've been trading off), and he's actually done pretty well. We had one incident this afternoon where he tried to trample Alki but he was on the leash so we intervened.

Since he's not running around loose I saw Alki laying tummy-up for the first time in a week! Apparently she knew she was safe from trampling!

**Stefrobrts** · 01-25-2008, 12:25 PM

Well, this has been the longest two weeks of my life! Jasper is so full of energy, and plays hard, and hardly ever sits still. He's on a leash almost all the time inside, and usually the leash is in my hand or tied to something nearby. We've been doing LOTS of training exercises, and he's doing ok with those. The cat chasing is getting better, but mostly because the cats are getting braver and when they get tired of him they smack him.

The Alki chasing has not improved though, because he doesn't listen to her when she snarls to be left alone. Partly because she's busy running away from him and trying not to get trampled. So we have to be very careful when they are out in the yard together. Sometimes he will stroll by her, other times he wants to play and chases her. He did it twice this morning and caught me off guard, the first time yanking the leash out of my hands, and the second time after he finished eating and specifically went look for her to harass and found her before I could catch his leash. He just wants to play, but he could hurt her by accident, and it scares her.

So we are still on the fence. We're working with a behaviorist the rescue put us in touch with, and if we can't get him to leave Alki alone, he will have to go back to the rescue and find a home without any small animals to chase.

2airishuman · 01-25-2008, 01:01 PM

sorry to read about the struggles stef....

larger field/hunting/gun dogs (the lab and dal) are a challenge to mix with kitties and small dogs...

and especially indoors or IF the small ones are OLD and established.

the big dogs need to be on a leash or long line while working, playing, training in short solo sessions...

and crated or in a run at all other times.

until they are 99.9% dialed in.

this can take a year for most young dogs.

letting them run loose indoors OR outside (for even a short time) only lengthens the control/learning process.

the big dogs form a pack all their own if allowed to romp together and will resist/ignore handler input while together.

all the other critters have to scatter or fight/play for rank...

and that's not easy with field dogs in the mix with older/smaller animals.

sure they settle down with aging but that takes years, which will seem like a lifetime.

and the early bad traits become fixed/established behaviors then too.

i know u r a patient caring couple, with LOTS of critter love...

so i hope this works out, but you may need to separate them and use lots of short focused training...

even on a leash the lab needs to be following u, NOT leading on walks, even 4 a second...

treats, head halters and clickers may help but becoming the alpha dog and BOSS is the key...

corrections aren't abuse IF used to mold a stable, behaved, friendly pooch.

and besides you are providing him a safe home and food and health care!

hang in there and best wishes for all the critters (2 legged and 4!)

2air'