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Old 12-29-2007, 03:59 PM   #15
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Lots of great info here....

I had the same questions when we lost two Goldens in a row at age 8 to cancer!!!

After months of research it boils down to 3 things

Food
Stop feeding the junk that is sold in the grocery stores - and if you are not a nutricianist be very careful about feeding home made diets - they may be nutritional - but if not set up properly the nutrients may not be released properly for the dog/cat.

Vaccination Schedules....
Stop filling your pet with toxins - research the vaccines that you are giving and the all in ones, the multiples, as well as the schedule if you have young pets - SPREAD them OUT!!!!! you do not have to follow the VETS schedule - it pounds a puppies immune system when it is not needed - let their immune system build with the natural transfer from the mother. Research the types of vaccines you are giving - for example Leptosporosis - for years we gave this to our dogs - and when the details are identified the strains that are vaccined are not even found in the are where we live and never have been. they have done more research in this area but the likelyhood is so minimal.

Testing your dog - blood test for heart worm - 2-3 times a year can prevent you from loading the dog with toxins all year long with the heart worm pill. ( high mosquito areas you should make your decision accordingly).

Spay - when they are older - not younger - allow the natural hormones to develop and do their job with the long bones and build healthy strong skeletal structure - when you spay too early - the hormone that stouts the dogs bones does not cut in (around 1 year) this means the long bones continue to grow - causing all sorts of issues with hips and bones/joint problems.
Have you ever noticed the large breed dogs that have been bread are "shorter"??? and stockier.

Environment
Allergies - a lot of our pets have terrible allergies - their immune systems are terrible and weak and allow for so much of the human environment to impact on them.....

Molds and Yeast are huge - some you can not do anything about - but if you are aware that your dog has allergies then you can at least control the environment a bit better....like cleansing tepid baths to remove the allergens on a regular basis - no soap or shampoo just a weekly rinse - winter and summer!

Assist the itchy dog with benedryl - so that they do not scratch too much and then break the skin down and then you run into a whole other ball game of medications and visits to the vet.

PICK a good vet and make them listen to YOU not the other way around. It is YOUR pet you live with them - the saying do not take no for an answer goes a long way in the proper treatment of your pet. Most of the work a vet does is guess work - and a process of elimination. Yes of course a lot of the symptoms are very common and of course the area where you live will have certain epidemics that the Vet will be aware of...But don't just settle for something said - if your gut feeling tells you something else.

Even if the final outcome is still not the greatest - be heard by your Vet - they are looking after your FAMILY member!!!

Pay attention to your pet - weekly grooming, clipping, cleaning etc and feeling the dog/cat from head to toe - note all new/changes in any lumps - mark them on a diagram to monitor - know their routines - watch their ears, eyes and mouth for infections, notice different smells, or dander on the coat or dullness, excessive hair loss from normal shedding, brightness of eyes, playfull or sleeping alot, grumpy or irritated - and know them inside out as if it were your "child". You will have a huge jump on health issues when they show early signs of poor health. Dogs especially are so resiliant and many times it is too late by the time the symptoms appear.

Research the cancer symptoms and know them well and compare to your pets daily health.

Keep logs or records.

But most importantly LOVE your Pet
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Old 12-29-2007, 04:21 PM   #16
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Why do so many pets get cancer?

I think there are many reasons -

We do generally take better care of our pets now a days. We don't let them roam freely and do get routine veterinary care so we find illness early enough to cure it. Because our pets live longer, like all of us, they are exposed to more environmental factors that can cause cancer. The veterinary field now has board certified specialists in oncology and radiology and can use the same treatments and technology we expect for our own human care. We pet owners are more willing to pay the thousands of dollars that it costs for such treatment. Our pets are considered members of the family and of course we don't neglect family.

Diet is a major factor in disease. You are what you eat. Same with our pets. Research into human disease is conducted on dogs first, then humans. Specific nutritional guidelines for dogs have only been available since the mid 80's, and just recently updated in 2006. Unlike the Food Pyramid published so freely by the FDA, most pet owners don't have easy access to the pet nutrition guidelines. Pet food manufacturers generally develop nutritionally sound food, but companies are also trying to maximize the financial bottom line and produce that product inexpensively. An incomplete proteirn from grains and legumes is much cheaper than high quality protein from meat and dairy sources.

And then there is the subject of breeding. Back yard breeders and puppy mills don't follow a breeding program that might limit the supply of animals with a genetic predisposition towards cancer. Certain breeds become more popular if they are seen in the movies or owned by celebrities (think chiwowa and Paris Hilton!) Dogs are breed simply as a commodity to be sold or someone thinks the family dog will be 'unfulfilled' if not allowed to produce one litter.

Most all dogs that live beyond 10 years will develop cancer. It is considered a chronic disease in many dogs. Something that will not be cured, but can be treated and lived with. I guess we and our dogs are lucky to be living today, with the veterinary care and treatments available to treat diseases that caused pooches in the past to be put down.

Some people think I am crazy for spending the money and time to treat my dog's cancer. I know there are many who would like to do the same but lack the financial resources to do so. My heart goes out to them.

Every ten years or so, it seems God gives us another chance to become a better puppy parent.

Mary
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Old 12-29-2007, 04:34 PM   #17
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AH puppy mills...one of my pet peeves. We seem to have a good supply of them here in Oklahoma. Then we have the "Pit Bull" crowd of bubbas also. If you want a good dog, go to a breeder who does testing or go to the shelter and give a stray a second chance. You kinda take your chances at the shelter, but you will be giving an animal the chance to live a good life and give it more time to be on this earth giving you love. I'm rescue poor at my home, not from a shelter but from the clients I serve in a State child abuse prevention program. To many here in the "bible belt" think dominion over means you can do with them as you please. It's heartbreaking at times. Everyone in my family now has a rescued animal or three. Also a note about vaccinations.....most vets are now spacing those first shot out over a longer period to reduce the stress on a young animal's immune system. And, a good vet is a blessing for you and your hairy/furry friends.
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Old 12-29-2007, 05:03 PM   #18
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What do I feed?

Until recently I fed Science Diet for sensitive skin. Occassionally I would add 'stuff', eggs, leftover meat, carrots, tomatoes, etc. I 'hang' with alot of dog people and vets in my agility club and classes, they of course all 'know' the 'best' way to feed a dog and many of them choose the BARF method. I have a problem feeding raw meat to anyone! Food spoils too quickly for my mind!

When my older golden developed a tumor I researched everything I could find about how to help him. What veterinary treatments and what I could do at home. I found a home cooked diet that was developed by a noted veterinary oncologist. Before I jumped in and started feeding it to my dog, I asked my vet and oncologist for opinions about it. It was not until they assured me there was some research behind it suggesting it might be helpful, then I decided to make the commitment to cook for my dog. So the one with cancer gets the homecooked with supplemental cottage cheese, pumpkin and vit E. The other guy still eats Science Diet, but gets cottage cheese, flax seed oil, carrots and other goodies.

I also have read some books on canine nutrition and belong to a Yahoo group owned by a canine nutritionist.

As far as herbs, essential oils and 'natural' stuff, I don't go there unless there is independent research by qualified researchers suggesting it might be helpful. Then I ask lots of questions.

Mary
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Old 12-29-2007, 05:47 PM   #19
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We just lost a Golden at 10 yrs. to cancer of the spleen. He was never sick a day in his life and got only the best, grain free, food. In the case of Goldens I'm afraid its genetic.

Do the best you can to keep them healthy but know that there are some things you have no control over.

John
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Old 12-29-2007, 05:55 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Relentless
We just lost a Golden at 10 yrs. to cancer of the spleen. He was never sick a day in his life and got only the best, grain free, food. In the case of Goldens I'm afraid its genetic.

Do the best you can to keep them healthy but know that there are some things you have no control over.

John
I am sorry you lost your pal. Goldens are such wonderful dogs. They hide their troubles until it is too late. That is the sad price paid for being such a popular, family friendly breed. Goldens are just cancer factories. I read that 75% of all goldens will develop cancer.

Spay, neuter and responsible breeding.

Mary
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Old 12-29-2007, 06:10 PM   #21
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Where to get the next dog is a big concern for us. Although we put in a an app to a rescue, after thinking about it I contacted some breeders, and next weekend we are going to go up and meet an Eskimo breeder in Seattle. Her dogs are shown, her breeding program involves dogs from other breeders, so she's not just cranking out puppys from her own dogs, and she tests for joint and eye problems. I think it's about the best bet you can make.

I have to admit, Alki, coming from a reputable breeder, was never sick a day in her life until the cancer diagnosis. Chester, a rescue who probably started out in a puppy mill during the last Dalmatians movie rush, is poorly bred, has bad conformation which is really starting to effect him as he gets older, and has been sick with allergies, bladder stones and ear infections, for as long as we've had him. It's been a constant battle. He's also not very bright, but I think that was beat into him by his original owners. There is a HUGE difference between a poorly bred dog and a well bred one. And when you get a dog from a rescue you really do take a chance by getting a dog with an unknown history, both genetically, and how it has been treated during it's formative years. There are many happy rescue stories out there, but it is a gamble.

I think if this eskimo breeder checks out, this will be the right way to go for us. She has a couple planned breedings next year, and we'll get to meet her dogs who will be involved, the mother of one breeding and the father of the other. Of course, we'll be putting down a deposit just to get on a waiting list, but that's how it should be with good breeders. We can be patient and wait a bit for our next buddy.
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Old 12-29-2007, 06:47 PM   #22
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Puppy mills are a huge peeve of mine as well. Regardless of where one lives, you'll find people who treat dgs like disposable property. Kai came from a reputable breeder, one of the best around my neck of the woods. He's a great dog and I know his family history and can fairly predict that he'll not have any health issues. Samm is my rescue. He was found wandering the backroads somewhere in Kansas and put in a shelter when he was picked up. Fortunately, I was able to have a rescue pull him from the shelter and assess his personality for me. I don't know his history, nor what sort of genetic problems we may face as he gets older, but that isn't even a concern. Samm is one of the best dogs I've met. He's happy and a pleasure to have around. I'm proud to be able to give this guy a good home and a happy life. If it weren't for rescues, this fine boy would have been gassed. So if a person can get over the fear of the unkown, a rescue dog can be a fine and rewarding choice. Oh, and you get to save a life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juel
AH puppy mills...one of my pet peeves. We seem to have a good supply of them here in Oklahoma. Then we have the "Pit Bull" crowd of bubbas also. If you want a good dog, go to a breeder who does testing or go to the shelter and give a stray a second chance. You kinda take your chances at the shelter, but you will be giving an animal the chance to live a good life and give it more time to be on this earth giving you love. I'm rescue poor at my home, not from a shelter but from the clients I serve in a State child abuse prevention program. To many here in the "bible belt" think dominion over means you can do with them as you please. It's heartbreaking at times. Everyone in my family now has a rescued animal or three. Also a note about vaccinations.....most vets are now spacing those first shot out over a longer period to reduce the stress on a young animal's immune system. And, a good vet is a blessing for you and your hairy/furry friends.
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Old 12-29-2007, 06:53 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rettoc625
I found a home cooked diet that was developed by a noted veterinary oncologist.
I'd be interested in hearing more about this diet - would it be possible to pass along a link or some info? That'd be great!

I was also thinking about the to spay/neuter early or later issue. From what I've read, there are pros and cons to both earlier and later. By earlier I mean around the 6 month mark, and later would probably be about 1 year or so.

Based on what I've read, if you wait until later to "fix" your animal, then you've allowed the animal to fully develop their hormones and thus affect the bone structure as it ought to be, among other things.

If one considers a female animal, there seems to be some disagreements over whether to spay before 1st heat cycle, after one heat cycle or after 1st pregnancy (or not at all). I did some reading and decided for a spay prior to 1st heat cycle (thus practically eliminating mammary gland cancer incidence).

It's one of those decisions that seem to have no right or wrong answer - just one that needs to be made after weighing all the info.

As for vaccination schedules, that really didn't come into play for my case specifically, as my dog, a lab-mix rescue, was an unfortunate soul who had the misfortune to be born in the presence of an evil person, who took all the pups in the litter and tied them up in a garbage bag within hours of their birth and tossed them from a moving vehicle into a ditch (sorry - I'm still ticked about this). So while my dog lived (though 2 of her sibs died from heat and dehydration), she most likely did not have proper access to her mother and so didn't get any immunity from her. So I had to vaccinate her as per convention.

But this has made me start thinking for when I get my next dog (am on waiting list for American Mastiff - woo hoo!) - I do like to keep my options/ears/opinions open about everything.

Cheers,
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Old 12-29-2007, 07:08 PM   #24
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Today I had my first training as a home visitor for families wishing to adopt a golden through Yankee Golden Retriever Rescue. I am going to volunteer for them to conduct home visits of prospective adoptors.

My young blonde, Blaze, is a rescue from YGRR. All I know about his past is that he was past around as a puppy from one soldier to another as each was sent to Iraq. Blaze ended up in the home of one of the parents of a soldier with a resident rottie. Blaze is my 'wild child'! He is fun, but has no manners! It has taken a lot of training to teach him the rules.

I don't know his health history, but physically he is much larger than a conformation golden. Blaze has some behavioral issues, but they are really no worse than anything I might expect regardless of the source of the puppy. He has some resource guarding issues, but then he was a step-dog to a rottie at a crucial developmental period in his first year. He also has some stress related behaviors, possibly from not feeling secure in his living arrangements as a pup.

He is a fun goof ball and will be competing in agility with me this spring.
I don't know what type of health issues he may experience. Each of my 4 goldens has had something different (Auto-immune mediated anemia, thyroid tumor, skin cancer).

Just like two legged kids, whether adopted, fostered, or biological, ya never know what nature will bring. There are no guarantees. Only lots of fur and sloppy kisses!!!

Mary
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Old 12-29-2007, 07:31 PM   #25
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Home cooking

The diet I found was developed by Dr. Greg Ogilvie, a veterinary oncologist at Colorado State University School of Veterinary Medicine. He conducted research on dogs with lymphoma to see if he could develop a diet that would starve the tumor while providing great nutrition. Dogs with cancer frequently lose substantial weight due to the fact that the cancer cells thrive on carbohydrates and utilize it before the dog's body has a chance to.

Ogilvie's recipe is high in essential fatty acid and protein, with no simple carbohydrates, complex only. This recipe is the foundation of the Hills Science Diet n/d food for dogs with cancer. Here is the link to the recipe

http://www.vetoncologyconsults.com/O...cer%20Diet.pdf

I have 15# of ground sirloin and 5# of beef liver in the frig to be cooked tomorrow.

Keep in mind that this recipe was developed for dogs with lymphoma. No suggestion has been made that it will prevent cancer in dogs.

You might be interested in learning more about cooking for your dog. Check out the K9 kitchen group on Yahoo and this website owned by a canine nutritionist
Welcome to Monica Segal

Monica Segal has written some books about preparing nutritionally balanced home cooked food for dogs with all sorts of dietary needs. She owns the yahoo list and comments frequently. Her recommendations all follow the government guidelines for nutritional recommendations for dogs.

I don't think all of our dogs health problems can be prevented with diet alone. But as with people, obesity and highly processed foods create health issues for our dogs too.

Mary
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Old 12-29-2007, 07:41 PM   #26
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If it weren't for rescues, this fine boy would have been gassed. So if a person can get over the fear of the unkown, a rescue dog can be a fine and rewarding choice. Oh, and you get to save a life.
I agree, many rescues are good dogs, and our Chester is certainly a good boy who didn't deserve what happened to him, and his resilience is inspiring to see. But the first dog we got from the dal rescue did not work out so well. I understand now that the rescue was short handed and should have done a better job of temperment testing Dominic before giving him to us. Right off he attacked our cat (we were there to intervene, so she didn't get hurt, just scared), growled at us, and Alki was constantly growling at him (very unusual for her) and barking, which we should have seen as a sign - she was trying to protect us. Luckily he never made a move at her, but one day at the park a dog wandered up to us off leash (Dom was on leash) and Dom jumped him, pinning him to the ground and poking a hole in his ear, while that poor dog was screaming and the owner was screaming, and the dog was bleeding, it was horrible! I took him to a professional trainer who was recommended to us, and she tested him and said he had serious issues, and that it really wasn't safe for him to be around our other pets until they were worked out, if they could be worked out at all, because he was already an old dog. Dominic immediately went back to the rescue. There was no way I could risk him attacking Alki, or the cat again. Unfortunately Dominic went to several other homes and threatened people and got in fights with other dogs until he had to be put to sleep. Not all dogs are suitable for rescue. Not his fault, he had been treated badly for years, but he paid the final price.

So when we think about rescue we've had a bad experience, and a good experience. That's only 50/50 to me. The thought of bringing home another Dominic turns my stomach, and makes me think maybe starting with a puppy is the best route for us. Not that rescue isn't a wonderful thing, but there is an element of the unknown involved, and it can turn out pretty scary.
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Old 12-29-2007, 07:58 PM   #27
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I agree, many rescues are good dogs, and our Chester is certainly a good boy who didn't deserve what happened to him, and his resilience is inspiring to see. But the first dog we got from the dal rescue did not work out so well. I understand now that the rescue was short handed and should have done a better job of temperment testing Dominic before giving him to us. Right off he attacked our cat (we were there to intervene, so she didn't get hurt, just scared), growled at us, and Alki was constantly growling at him (very unusual for her) and barking, which we should have seen as a sign - she was trying to protect us. Luckily he never made a move at her, but one day at the park a dog wandered up to us off leash (Dom was on leash) and Dom jumped him, pinning him to the ground and poking a hole in his ear, while that poor dog was screaming and the owner was screaming, and the dog was bleeding, it was horrible! I took him to a professional trainer who was recommended to us, and she tested him and said he had serious issues, and that it really wasn't safe for him to be around our other pets until they were worked out, if they could be worked out at all, because he was already an old dog. Dominic immediately went back to the rescue. There was no way I could risk him attacking Alki, or the cat again. Unfortunately Dominic went to several other homes and threatened people and got in fights with other dogs until he had to be put to sleep. Not all dogs are suitable for rescue. Not his fault, he had been treated badly for years, but he paid the final price.

So when we think about rescue we've had a bad experience, and a good experience. That's only 50/50 to me. The thought of bringing home another Dominic turns my stomach, and makes me think maybe starting with a puppy is the best route for us. Not that rescue isn't a wonderful thing, but there is an element of the unknown involved, and it can turn out pretty scary.
Not only do you need to evaluate the dog, but you need to evaluate the rescue group too!!!

At YGRR there is a 4 page application for the adoptor and a home visit is required to make sure the adoptive family is responsible. Strict rules are in place for adoptors with cats and small children. The dogs at the kennel go through an extensive health and behavioral evaluation, including reactions to other dogs and cats. All are spayed and neutered and any health problems are treated and addressed prior to adoption. All at no cost to the adoptive family. Blaze had an undiagnosed ear infection when we adopted him. YGRR paid the bills incurred with my vet. Dogs at YGRR will only go to a good match. We had to bring our resident golden up to the kennel to meet Blaze. There was one dog at the kennel for 3 years waiting for her forever home!!!

The YGRR facility is impressive - air conditioned, areas for senior dogs, ill dogs, and unruly dogs. There is a pool for dogs who need hydro therapy and miles of trails through the woods covering the grounds. And never any rush or pressure to make a match or send a dog off with a family if the situation is not right.

There are lots of rescue groups that take in tractor trailer loads of dogs and send them to homes with very little screening. My dil is going to help transport a truck load of greyhounds in early January. She said some of them may be adopted on the spot by those who assist, no screening at all!!!

It can be very discouraging when things don't work out at first. Some people think YGRR is too strict, but hopefully it reduces the number of dogs who get returned to the kennel.

Mary
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Old 12-29-2007, 08:22 PM   #28
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I think a very strict rescue group is best. It shows they want to make sure it's a good match for everyone involved. Unfortunately this was our first experience with a rescue, and the folks running it were very good people, with big hearts, but overrun with work. Now we know more, and could ask more informed questions if we went that route again!
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