Will It Tow It?

[dscluchfc]

I have a friend who has the chance to buy a 29 ft Airstream, but he is stalled.

He has a pickup with a 350 Vortec and 125K miles on it that is in exceptional condition. The pickup has 3.73 gears, and he says it won't tow the trailer.


I asked months ago about when they were going to buy it from his relative and now he says, "We are looking at options for towing it, our truck wont do it. We talked to an Airstream technician. We cant afford a new truck and the trailer at this time."

I am thinking...WHAT?!?!?!

That pickup will tow that 29 footer!
So I said so and got this reply:
"We dont want to abuse this truck like that. It is a VERY exceptional truck for its age. Only 125k, all original 350 Vortec, has the factory towing pkg. .373 gears. And the trailer comes with the load leveler hitch. The technician told us it was suspension and brakes that was the issue."

And I am thinking....the suspension and brakes??????????

So I reply:
"I don't know what "technician" he talked to, but the suspension doesn't take a beating because of the weight distribution hitch, and the brakes don't take a beating because of the trailer having it's own brakes.

There are two things which are stressed. The first is the motor because it is required to provide the power to pull the trailer, which should weigh in at less than 8000 lbs, and with weight distribution hitch have less than 200 lbs tongue weight.

The second thing which is stressed is the transmission. If the pickup doesn't have a heavy-duty transmission cooler (half inch line/ tall cooler) then one needs to be mounted in front of the radiator and I would put in a tranny temperature gauge as well.

My Yukon had 160K miles on it and all I did was put a transmission cooler on it and the transmission temp gauge and I towed 2 years with it before buying the Duramax.

The 350 can handle it, the brakes can handle it, the 3.73 gears is better than the 3.42s I had, and the wheelbase on the truck i longer than that short Yukon....and your pickup probably has a tow package to help the transmission shift points....my Yukon didn't have a tow package.

I towed a larger trailer with less than you have, and it did it fine. My only issue was pulling up hills...I had to gear down and grind it out.

The other limiting factor I had was the 265x75-16 tires which robbed torque from the drive train. The better choice would have been 245's which are a little smaller but transfer more horsepower to the ground than the larger tires do....gears/physics/ratios...

I say you got bad information. The suspension and brakes are not an issue, IMO."

SO, what say you AIR Forums Members?

AM I right?....or is this so called "technician" correct?
I will show this thread to my friend....

I rest my case....and thanks for your thoughtful replies!

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, It sounds OK the way you say it, but maybe if there was more information on the truck; Like year, tow rating, horse power, torque, carbureted or fuel injected Etc. Also I don't think an 8,000 lb trailer is going to only have about 200 lbs tongue weight. maybe more information on the trailer too.

[dscluchfc]

Vortec = fuel injected 350 with 125K miles on it.
Tongue weight on a properly set up weight distribution hitch is only going to be 200-400 lbs because you are not going to want the truck squatting under the tongue weight, you want it towing about level which means those weight distribution bars are going to transfer the tongue weight to the front of the tow vehicle so all tires are equally weighted.
I am guessing the trailer will weigh 7500 or so...my 31 ft weighs about 8000.

[slowmover]

I think something is screwy. That truck, those gears, that engine spec, are about ideal for towing. If they're worried about engine condition then a compression test and blowby test should settle things. Big coolers/filters on trans and power steering fluid otherwise (given perfect book maintenance; time, not just miles).

Don't know what year the truck is, but suspension & body bushings ought to be looked at/replaced, IMO. Same for changing to BILSTEIN shock absorbers. Also, to change anti-roll bar bushings to polyurethane, and add a rear one if not so equipped; HELWIG). LT tires, obviously. Steering wander, brake drag, alignment are all in need of inspection.

After all, it's a truck. What good is it if it won't do the work? 5k annual miles towing ought to be ideal. Work out a few kinks (only a "maybe") and get on down the road.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by dscluchfc

Vortec = fuel injected 350 with 125K miles on it.
Tongue weight on a properly set up weight distribution hitch is only going to be 200-400 lbs because you are not going to want the truck squatting under the tongue weight, you want it towing about level which means those weight distribution bars are going to transfer the tongue weight to the front of the tow vehicle so all tires are equally weighted.
I am guessing the trailer will weigh 7500 or so...my 31 ft weighs about 8000.

Vortec=at least a 1996, 3:73 axle=towing package, 125k=complete maint. needed to insure proper condition for towing. All things being properly done...WD hitch,with sway control, brake controller, hitch receiver inspection for rust and cracks,(class III, IV), there is no reason the truck wouldn't make a very good TV for that Airstream.

Bob

[overlander63]

I have a pickup truck with a 4.7 engine, 3.55 gears, and it tows our 7100 pound 31' Airstream just fine. The truck also has 17" tires on it.

Just an FYI, using WD does NOT change the tongue weight one ounce. The weight is still there, it is distributed forward to the front axle of the truck, and rearward to the axles of the trailer. And the tongue weight for that Ambassador will be closer to 500 pounds at least, at 10% of trailer weight on the tongue and a 5000 pound trailer.

[Aviator]

No problem with the truck if it is truly in good condition. IMHO, the technician is the one blowing smoke.

I pull a 34' with an F150, 5.4L (351c.i.) engine.

Your friend will need to add a brake controller, but that is about it.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Vortec=at least a 1996, 3:73 axle=towing package, 125k=complete maint. needed to insure proper condition for towing. All things being properly done...WD hitch,with sway control, brake controller, hitch receiver inspection for rust and cracks,(class III, IV), there is no reason the truck wouldn't make a very good TV for that Airstream.

Bob

Ditto. I pull my 8500# Classic with a 2000 Express Van, 350cid, port fuel injection, 3.73 gears on occasion. It's overloaded by the numbers and could use a few more ponies and some more torque, but it's not hurting anything.

We really need to know the weight/year/model of that trailer.....I am sure it is quite a bit lighter than my Classic.

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by Aviator

No problem with the truck if it is truly in good condition. IMHO, the technician is the one blowing smoke.

I pull a 34' with an F150, 5.4L (351c.i.) engine.

Your friend will need to add a brake controller, but that is about it.

A 351 was about 5.8L... the 5.4L is about 330 c.i.

[TouringDan]

I agree completely with the previous posters. Your friend's truck will be fine assuming a thorough inspection to make sure everything is in proper shape and all worn components replaced.

Sometimes people believe what ever an "expert" or "knowlegable person with a title" tells them. What the Airstream Tech told him is different from what he should have told him IMHO. Also, your friend may not be completely committed to buying the Airstream and is just looking for an excuse not to.

I sense and understand your frustration. This one is a no brainer- just buy it.

Dan

[overlander64]

I am with the Airstream technician who recommended against this tow vehicle for the 29-foot Ambassador. My '64 Overlander is somewhat shorter and still weighs 6,000 to 6,100 pounds ready to travel with a hitch weight between 725 and 750 pounds. Prior to purchasing my '99 K2500 Suburban in April 1998, I towed with a K1500 Z71 Chevrolet Club Cab pickup with 5.7 Liter and 3.73 gears with heavy duty 6,500 pound trailer tow package. The truck was grossly underpowered for the '64 Overlander -- the pickups's suspension was far too stiff for a Vintage Airstream, and the pickup's brakes were only marginal for the situation. I purchased the pickup new with the intention of towing the Overlander and was disappointed with the pickup's performance from the very first time it was mated to the Overlander - - and that was in the flat lands of Illinois - - the situation degraded quickly in the hills of Southern Illiinois and Southeast Missouri let alone when attempting one trip to Rocky Mountain National Park. The 5.7 Liter may pull the 29-foot Ambassador, but it will be a marginal combination (IMHO)

Kevin

[ROBERT CROSS]

I agree with Kevin on the Z71 suspension....it IS stiff.

Not completely though on the trucks ability, didn't have an AS when we used our 350 Blazer to tow some pretty heavy car haulers without concern.
I guess it's how subjectively you define ability.

Bob

[Pat Conway]

IMHO Kevin is correct in diagnosing the combination as marginal. We had a 1999 Suburban 1500 with the 3.73 rear end, a 4 speed automatic, an LT model that was big and comfortable. Admittedly it was a little tired with 67,000 miles when we first bought it to tow our 1988 25' A/S tt. It could tow in Florida on the flatest road, after finally climbing to speed (God help me if it was an uphill merger onto the Interstate), but on the slightest grade I found myself off on the shoulder with every semi-tractor trailer on the road screaming past me with their horns blazing. On a caravan on the Natchez Trace I was having to request that others in front of me with their diesel tow vehicles wait for me as I couldn't keep up with them on the hills. Their response was "what hill"?. The best thing that tow vehicle did for us was my wife saying to me "Don't you think you had better get us a diesel?" I think it was better suited to soccer mom duties or only towing a much lighter trailer. Yes, the tow vehicle met the specs, but in reality it was marginal at best.

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Originally Posted by overlander64

I am with the Airstream technician who recommended against this tow vehicle for the 29-foot Ambassador. My '64 Overlander is somewhat shorter and still weighs 6,000 to 6,100 pounds ready to travel with a hitch weight between 725 and 750 pounds. Prior to purchasing my '99 K2500 Suburban in April 1998, I towed with a K1500 Z71 Chevrolet Club Cab pickup with 5.7 Liter and 3.73 gears with heavy duty 6,500 pound trailer tow package. The truck was grossly underpowered for the '64 Overlander -- the pickups's suspension was far too stiff for a Vintage Airstream, and the pickup's brakes were only marginal for the situation. I purchased the pickup new with the intention of towing the Overlander and was disappointed with the pickup's performance from the very first time it was mated to the Overlander - - and that was in the flat lands of Illinois - - the situation degraded quickly in the hills of Southern Illiinois and Southeast Missouri let alone when attempting one trip to Rocky Mountain National Park. The 5.7 Liter may pull the 29-foot Ambassador, but it will be a marginal combination (IMHO)

Kevin

Hi, I tend to go with Kevin, but I still don't think the original poster has given enough information about the truck or trailer to make a proper decision.

I will give my example:

2005 Airstream Safari 25-B GVWR 6,300 lbs.

Tow vehicle:

2000 Lincoln Navigator Tow rated at 8,900 lbs.
5.4 L V-8, dual overhead cams, 32 valves, 300 horse power, 355 torque @ 2,750 RPM, 3:L73 gears, four speed automatic trans, and factory tow package.

Original poster's specs:

Vortec 350, Chevy truck, 3:73 gears, 125K miles, and a 29 foot Airstream. This is not enough information to even make an educated guess.


[my opinion]

[Zia]

I have been thinking to get an advice on my specific towing issue,
Purchased new 23 FB Serenity (replaced 2007 20' Safari) a few months ago towing with existing 2007 Lexus GX470 with towing capacity of 6,500 bs. I am using Reese weight distribution hitch with anti sway.
I weigh the both on a truck scale fully loaded trailer 5040 lbs, Lexus reare axcel 3260 lbs and front 2460 lbs. I also measured the car height before and after weight distribution hitch hookup with about 1/2 drop in both front and rear excel.
I have gone over 5,000 ft passes with no problem. The only issue is onced in a while I feel unstable handling even at 55 mph after I slow down a little the stable feeling comes back.
Is it a sign that I am loosing it or any other phenomenon I am unaware of?
I wish Andy could chime-in I am one of his admirer
Thanks in advance

[Condoluminum]

I wanted to respond to Kevin's post about Chevy 5.7L V-8 in a Suburban or Z-71 Pickup.. We owned a 1994 Chevy Suburban 1500 with tow pkg and used it to tow our 25' Excella.. Truck came first, and was initially matched to a 24' Lightweight Nomad trailer... Key piece of information is that pre-Vortec 5.7L Chevy V-8's were indeed gutless as tow vehicles.. Going over major hills like southern Calif Grapevine or northern Calif Siskayou's, the Suburban would be challenged to maintain 45 mph.. Vortec mod to fuel injection and more efficient intake manifold picked up an additoinal 50 horsepower, plus torque, and made a huge difference..

We now tow with fuel injected Ford Excursion/5.4L Triton V-8 combo, and do just fine for trailer that generally weighs about 6500# on the road, plus some stuff in back of Excursion.. Unless the Trailer were always towed with full water and holding tanks and lots of food, supplies, clothing, electronics, etc, the Vortec V-8 model Chevy/GMC truck should be fine..

And for Zia, there are generally three causes for handling instability to check:
1. Tire pressures on Lexus and trailer need to be checked and should be at high end of ranges
2. Trailer loading should not be "tail heavy" so be sure heavy items aren't concentrated in rear of trailer, or rear-most tanks are less than full, and propane tanks are full..
3. DO you have anti-sway setup? Either Sway bar (friction type) or anti-sway built into hitch? For shorter wheelbase tow vehicles (like Lexus) an anti-sway system is a good idea..

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by Zia

I have been thinking to get an advice on my specific towing issue,
Purchased new 23 FB Serenity (replaced 2007 20' Safari) a few months ago towing with existing 2007 Lexus GX470 with towing capacity of 6,500 bs. I am using Reese weight distribution hitch with anti sway.
I weigh the both on a truck scale fully loaded trailer 5040 lbs, Lexus reare axcel 3260 lbs and front 2460 lbs. I also measured the car height before and after weight distribution hitch hookup with about 1/2 drop in both front and rear excel.
I have gone over 5,000 ft passes with no problem. The only issue is onced in a while I feel unstable handling even at 55 mph after I slow down a little the stable feeling comes back.
Is it a sign that I am loosing it or any other phenomenon I am unaware of?
I wish Andy could chime-in I am one of his admirer
Thanks in advance

Zia,

You need to post the TV alone, and the AS hitched weights, with and without the WD set, you'll probably find you need more weight on the steering axles. What sway control are you using?

Edit...sorry just saw Reese,

Bob

[JFScheck]

I would love to see you cat scale ticket, trailer loaded and just tounge weight, then trailer, tv alone, then tv with trailer connected.

Something is not correct here.... :-/

[Bruce B]

OK,
I am going to sell my F-150 and go with our Fiat! It is equiped with Fiat's "Ultimate Tow package" too...should be no problem.
Bruce

[Gene]

David, maybe your friend doesn't want to use this truck for towing. It is his baby and he doesn't really want to use it as a truck, but as a car and is worried about harming this beloved vehicle. Maybe the tech told him what he wanted to hear. Sometimes it is all in the perception.

Gene