Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-11-2006, 06:23 AM   #15
4 Rivet Member
 
2007 25' International CCD
Arlington , Virginia
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 323
Images: 5
GC, according to the directions provided in the box the WD hitch came in, you are supposed to have the trailer present while installing the WD hitch. I suppose its to guarantee a correct fit?
__________________

__________________
Streamer1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2006, 06:25 AM   #16
4 Rivet Member
 
2007 25' International CCD
Arlington , Virginia
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 323
Images: 5
2air, I measured the height to the bottom of the 2" receiver box on my truck and the height was 20".
__________________

__________________
Streamer1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2006, 06:38 AM   #17
Rivet Monster
 
wahoonc's Avatar

 
1975 31' Sovereign
1980 31' Excella II
Sprung Leak , North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 7,174
Images: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Streamer1
GC, according to the directions provided in the box the WD hitch came in, you are supposed to have the trailer present while installing the WD hitch. I suppose its to guarantee a correct fit?
Yes! In my experience it makes a huge difference in setup if you A) have a flat, level surface for set up and B) have all the components of the rig at hand. FWIW I set up my wife's F150 to tow our first Airstream home, the slab I was setting it up on was on a bit of a sideways tilt for drainage. I ended up having to makes some adjustments to the hitch set up a bit later to even everything out. For a perfect set up you want everything to be pretty much level. A tad nose down on the trailer is aceptable. And you want to minimize the rear end squat on the vehicle.

And FWIW I tow my Airstream with my dually, "on the ball" no WDH or sway needed! I am going to be putting an Air Ride hitch on in the near future to soften the ride for the ASes. At that time I may put a Blue Ox sway control on it.

Aaron
__________________
....so many Airstreams....so little time...
WBCCI #XXXX AIR #2495
Why are we in this basket...and where are we going
wahoonc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2006, 09:55 AM   #18
Rivet Master
 
AYRSTRM2's Avatar
 
1966 22' Safari
Armada , Michigan
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 939
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpcaudill
Just thought I might offer my 2 cents to this topic. I have an 03' Duramax towing my 30 foot AS with Load Leveling system. My set-up when looking at side view is perfectly level. Problem I'm starting to experience, is that the trailer goes into a high speed rear push at around 65 or so. Does this going down hill and on level ground. Not the most pleasant experience for either my passenger (who can feel the trailer pushing) or myself who's trying to keep the vehicle in control. Maybe this isn't the correct topic to post a question like this, just thought I'd throw it out to see what responses I collect.
Maybe you should slow down.

You are probably experiencing porpoising, which is a complex collection of conditions, including your TV length, trailer length, the distance between the expansion joints in the road, and your speed. This makes your whole rig bob up and down...you essentially have found the harmonic frequency of your whole rig with the joints and you get a wavy feeling. Not much to do about it but not drive at that speed...there isn't any way your camper can become powered and actually speed up to push your TV, unless you modified it with a motor!

And BTW, if you think I'm crazy, did you know that the washboard affect on dirt roads is from the same sort of effect? Automotive engineers have described how this works, with wheels hitting potholes and then bouncing up and down, causing those indentations, with them getting worse with each car.
__________________
John

Visit my Camping Blog!
AYRSTRM2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2006, 11:19 AM   #19
4 Rivet Member
 
2007 25' International CCD
Arlington , Virginia
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 323
Images: 5
GC, according to the instructions included in the WD hitch, to properly install said hitch you would need to have the trailer present (i.e. varoius measurements to make and verify?). I am not 100% sure of that, but looking at the diagrams they provided, it looks like at least half of the WD hitch could be installed (the 1/2 pertaining to the TV anyway).
__________________
Streamer1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2006, 12:36 PM   #20
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
hi streamer1

are ya getting excited? hope the trailer is a keeper!

i'm not a hitch expert. really i only have experience with mine...

as i recall the tv receiver height is measured from inside the 2in box...
the top of hole.

so an estimate based on your 20inches at the bottom...would be a fraction under 22...

what brand hitch? it will be easier for folks to offer install suggestions IF they know the brand.

again from my basic understanding, your drop bar would be 3 inches up to 4 approx.

this depends some on how much the trailer axles have settled over 10 years...

while the spot where the unit is parked may not work for properly setting up the hitch, surely there is a level area somewhere close by?

don't forget the photos...pix help us learn, and yours may help the next person...

any idea about brake condition or bearings?

cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2006, 01:26 PM   #21
Rivet Monster
 
wahoonc's Avatar

 
1975 31' Sovereign
1980 31' Excella II
Sprung Leak , North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 7,174
Images: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Streamer1
GC, according to the instructions included in the WD hitch, to properly install said hitch you would need to have the trailer present (i.e. varoius measurements to make and verify?). I am not 100% sure of that, but looking at the diagrams they provided, it looks like at least half of the WD hitch could be installed (the 1/2 pertaining to the TV anyway).
But to get the ball height correct and the tilt you will need the trailer.

Aaron
__________________
....so many Airstreams....so little time...
WBCCI #XXXX AIR #2495
Why are we in this basket...and where are we going
wahoonc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2006, 07:31 PM   #22
Round on both ends
 
SafeHarbor's Avatar
 
1979 31' Excella 500
1975 28' Argosy 28
Rutledge , Georgia
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 783
Images: 39
Hi, bpcaudill,

Please define "high speed rear push." Thanks!

Lamar
__________________
1975 Argosy 28 "Argosy"
1979 Excella 500 31 "Betsy"
1992 Lincoln Mk 7 LSC
2003 Dodge 2500 Cummins "TowHog"
"Lucy Loosehair" the cat - Airstream mascot
Klaatu barada nikto
SafeHarbor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2006, 08:59 PM   #23
Rivet Master
 
Ganglin's Avatar
 
1971 27' Overlander
Central , Ohio
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,365
Images: 13
The manual I have for a 71 says to set the the ball to 19 to 19 and 1/2 inches on the tow vehicle while on level ground.
__________________
Ganglin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2006, 10:49 PM   #24
Rivet Master
 
66Overlander's Avatar
 
1962 22' Safari
2016 30' Classic
Somewhere , in the USA
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,973
Images: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Streamer1
If you had to choose the best of a bad towing situation and had to tow your AS (pick a distance) with the AS either angle down towards the TV or angle up towards the TV, which would you choose and why?
I hear over and over again about the evils of towing with the front of the trailer high. I have no other choice unless I spring for a custom hitch shank, because the commercially longest available shank (an 8" drop) isn't long enough with the H2. I tow my trailer with the front high by 1 to 2 inches and have never had an issue in thousands of miles towing. My trailer axle weights are not quite equal, but are both well within spec and I have my weight bars adjusted to transfer a correct amount of weight - I have measured to verify this. I will clarify that the majority of my towing experience is with the H2, which is a heavy vehicle with a short rear overhang. This may make it less susceptible to questionable hitch setups than other tow vehicles.

I will however clarify that the front of my trailer is high because the truck hitch receiver is high, not because I cranked in too much weight transfer with the Reese WD setup. You have to transfer the correct amount of weight. Too much and the front of the trailer may end up higher than it should and handling may be compromised by the removal of weight from the truck's rear axle. Too little and the front of the trailer may be low and handling may be compromised by the removal of weight from the truck's front axle.

As to what the effects of towing with the front of the trailer high or low are, I will note the following:

Trailer Front High:
  • May drag the rear bumper (or drag it more often) over bumps and entering driveways (obviously this is more of an issue the longer the trailer)
  • Trailer rear axle carries more weight than front (assuming torsion axles, can exceed spec if not careful)
  • When turning the trailer will behave as if it is longer (when backing, it will react slower)
  • "Out of levelness" may affect fridge operation
Trailer Front Low:
  • May drag the saftey chains or even the hitch head (or drag them/it more often) over bumps and entering driveways
  • Trailer front axle carries more weight than rear (assuming torsion axles, can exceed spec if not careful)
  • When turning the trailer will behave as if it is shorter (when backing, it will react faster)
  • "Out of levelness" may affect fridge operation
In the end, it is my opinion that getting the proper hitch setup (including sway control) and transfering the correct amount of weight (if needed) is more important than the exact levelness of the trailer. If you can't get level, I do not know if either having the trailer front high or low in provides any specific handling benefits. Others may be able to expound on this thought.

In any case, your mileage (and others opinions) may vary.
__________________
Joe
Wally Byam Caravan Club International Historian
Vintage Airstream Club Historian
WBCCI/VAC #6768

(Looking for a vintage 1960's fiberglass front window guard)
66Overlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2006, 07:46 AM   #25
1 Rivet Short
 
1989 25' Excella
By The Bay , Rhode Island
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,547
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by 66Overlander
I hear over and over again about the evils of towing with the front of the trailer high. I have no other choice unless I spring for a custom hitch shank, because the commercially longest available shank (an 8" drop) isn't long enough with the H2. I tow my trailer with the front high by 1 to 2 inches and have never had an issue in thousands of miles towing. My trailer axle weights are not quite equal, but are both well within spec and I have my weight bars adjusted to transfer a correct amount of weight - I have measured to verify this. I will clarify that the majority of my towing experience is with the H2, which is a heavy vehicle with a short rear overhang. This may make it less susceptible to questionable hitch setups than other tow vehicles.

I will however clarify that the front of my trailer is high because the truck hitch receiver is high, not because I cranked in too much weight transfer with the Reese WD setup. You have to transfer the correct amount of weight. Too much and the front of the trailer may end up higher than it should and handling may be compromised by the removal of weight from the truck's rear axle. Too little and the front of the trailer may be low and handling may be compromised by the removal of weight from the truck's front axle.

As to what the effects of towing with the front of the trailer high or low are, I will note the following:

Trailer Front High:
  • May drag the rear bumper (or drag it more often) over bumps and entering driveways (obviously this is more of an issue the longer the trailer)
  • Trailer rear axle carries more weight than front (assuming torsion axles, can exceed spec if not careful)
  • When turning the trailer will behave as if it is longer (when backing, it will react slower)
  • "Out of levelness" may affect fridge operation
Trailer Front Low:
  • May drag the saftey chains or even the hitch head (or drag them/it more often) over bumps and entering driveways
  • Trailer front axle carries more weight than rear (assuming torsion axles, can exceed spec if not careful)
  • When turning the trailer will behave as if it is shorter (when backing, it will react faster)
  • "Out of levelness" may affect fridge operation
In the end, it is my opinion that getting the proper hitch setup (including sway control) and transfering the correct amount of weight (if needed) is more important than the exact levelness of the trailer. If you can't get level, I do not know if either having the trailer front high or low in provides any specific handling benefits. Others may be able to expound on this thought.

In any case, your mileage (and others opinions) may vary.
My experience has been similiar; I am about 1 inch high now with my current truck, and was about 1 inch high with the Suburban. Correcting this would have meant getting another shank for several hundred $, and losing a bit of ground clearance (was not crazy about that idea).WD is set properly. I have also towed for thousands of miles like this and never had an issue. If I were more than an inch or so out of level I might be concerned. I use an EQ, hitch, and when I first set it up I called them and asked about this situation, they said that should be close enough and to be more concerned about proper levelling using the WD. I followed this advice and have been fine.

Oh Yeah-I would definitely want the hitch with me when I picked up my camper. That is a lot of tongue weight...

Bill
__________________
BillTex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2006, 02:19 PM   #26
2 Rivet Member
 
1994 30' Excella
2012 25' FB International
Anchorage , Alaska
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 25
High speed push question.

Thanks for responding to my dilemma. I don't think the speed of the tow vehicle is the problem (could be wrong though). My wife who also feels this explains it as more of a side-to-side push versus the porpoising effect. The particular road we were on the last time we had it out was perfectly smooth without expansion joints. The trailer has brand new shocks and such, so I don't think there's any problems from that end.
What happens, is the truck and trailer will be going along as it should be. Then, the driver will experience the trailer trying to push the rear of the truck sideways (again, this is on a straight section absolutely no curves). At this point, I'm going holy cow, how do I correct. Letting off the gas seems to be the wrong thing to do. From experience, the only correction is to keep on the gas and slowly try to rergain control.
I think for now, I will try the going a little bit slower. Just for grins, is there some chance that I'm getting enough high speed air under the front of the trailer to actually be picking the front of it up and in turn taking away from the needed weight on the TV's rear tires??? Help
__________________
bpcaudill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2006, 03:01 PM   #27
4 Rivet Member
 
bobchevy89's Avatar
 
1977 24' Argosy 24
Inverness , Florida
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 264
push

Hey bpcaudill, I would slow your tv down to 60 max till you find out what is the cause of the side push.I drive coast to coast and have seen 20 to 25 campers and tv lying on their sides because of fish tailing..quite a few get hurt very badly cause of this,so slow down and save your life or some one else's..
__________________
bobchevy89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2006, 06:45 PM   #28
Round on both ends
 
SafeHarbor's Avatar
 
1979 31' Excella 500
1975 28' Argosy 28
Rutledge , Georgia
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 783
Images: 39
Hi, bpcaudill,

Hmm... That doesn't sound too good. I'd agree that slowing down is in order until you find out what's causing this.

And I know that's it can be hard to describe a sensation, but this sounds like the start of sway to me. Yaw may be the feeling you guys are getting. That would be rotation around the axis of the truck. This is also known as the "tail wagging the dog."

When you say "load leveling," are you describing a feature of the truck? If so, can it be turned off? What kind of hitch are you using? Weight distributing, anti-sway, both, neither?

I use a an older "twin cam" Reese hitch with my '79 31' Excella, which is a lighter trailer than your '94 30'. It works by effectively locking the hitch in a straight-ahead position and preventing sway by magic. (Okay, I know it's not magic, but I'm not an engineer, so it might as well be.)

I haven't had it over 60 or so yet, but I can attest that it's a HECK of a lot less scary with my 3/4-ton Dodge than it was with my old Dakota. Passing trucks used to give me severe indigestion. Now, it's just "press on."

And if you want to get passed by a LOT of trucks, try going 60.

Lamar
__________________

__________________
1975 Argosy 28 "Argosy"
1979 Excella 500 31 "Betsy"
1992 Lincoln Mk 7 LSC
2003 Dodge 2500 Cummins "TowHog"
"Lucy Loosehair" the cat - Airstream mascot
Klaatu barada nikto
SafeHarbor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
LT versus ST tires on a trailer 76Argosy Tires 18 08-29-2014 05:03 PM
Trailer Type Joe & Mary Scudder 1998-1999 Limited 1 09-29-2004 05:24 PM
Unknown Trailer pictures Raptorrider2001 Our Community 2 11-16-2002 12:50 AM
Towing a small 60s trailer with a SUV... Andy R Tow Vehicles 15 03-30-2002 08:57 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.