What's your preference? Over capacity TV or under capacity?

[Albireo]

Originally Posted by RandyNH

Not being an engineer or knowing all the correct equations necessary, I ask the following question.

How much push does it take to break traction on a 4,500lb highly capable sport SUV with a superior brake system as compared to an 8,500lb behemoth with a slightly less capable system.

Not being highly educated and having gobs of book knowledge stored up top, I am forced to use my eyes ears and seat of my pants to evaluate things and in the back of my mind I'm hearing that a lighter vehicle will break contact sooner and once broken all that sophisticated system will do is lock up like the rest, all things being equal (that being antilock)

There must must be a friction over mass formula somewhere.

In today's world it seems some confuse intellect with intelligence. I believe they are two completely different things. The world is full of educated idiots as my dad would say. I certainly am not implying those here who have posted are idiots in any way. On the contrary, there are some very well thought out arguments.

It seems, although I may be wrong as I often am, that some here believe a small German SUV to be a better tow vehicle than say a large truck. I can't for the life of me understand this. At some point you reach critical mass and a larger vehicle pulling a lighter trailer seems to make sense to me. Obviously not others which is OK. Being able to handle a skid better and better rotor brakes and everything else just gets lost in my common sense. Like I say my common sense. Not yours.

It seems to be the case of say digital over analog in the audiophile world or if you have seen the movie Trouble with the Curve.

Anyway, I do like the passion to which people hold there view points. That is admirable and if you can't understand why one would own a truck it is obvious you do not need one. All the places I live and all the things I get up too a truck is invaluable to my extremely rural and outdoor lifestyle. I am currently an hour from any kind of services and you will not find a sophisticated car dealer for about a 2 hour drive.

So if I have got this right. Some believe bigger is better (such as a diesel with an engine brake and a clear view of the road) and other believe that a smaller sophisticated German SUV with better suspension and brakes is the way to go.

You can spend a 200K on a sound system and some will insist that digital music is the best sounding and other will insist that analog is the best.

I fall into the analog camp.

Just like there is an expert for the witness and an expert for the defense. It seems as you get older everything is up for interpretation and we all come with our own biases. Like for me God is the only thing that is certain and of course others would think I am nuts. That is just fine with me.

If we were all the same the world would be pretty boring. I guess I will hop in my big truck (which I love to drive) an hopefully be able to stop when the time comes (I hope you see the humor in that).

[pteck]

Originally Posted by Albireo

In today's world it seems some confuse intellect with intelligence. I believe they are two completely different things. The world is full of educated idiots as my dad would say. I certainly am not implying those here who have posted are idiots in any way. On the contrary, there are some very well thought out arguments.

I won't say you're wrong. But when generalizing, it's not completely right either. And that is the problem.

Intellectual layman discussing engineering concepts - means everyone starts talking past each other as they make their generalized points. It's the problem of conflating various concepts and factors. With a good dose of personal preference and needs.

And so we go spinning in circles again.

Even in engineering, there's not necessarily a perfect answer. Which is okay, as there's so many different ways to solve a problem. It's more an issue of which trade-off one is willing to make.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Albireo

It seems, although I may be wrong as I often am, that some here believe a small German SUV to be a better tow vehicle than say a large truck. I can't for the life of me understand this. At some point you reach critical mass and a larger vehicle pulling a lighter trailer seems to make sense to me. Obviously not others which is OK. Being able to handle a skid better and better rotor brakes and everything else just gets lost in my common sense. Like I say my common sense. Not yours.

It seems to be the case of say digital over analog in the audiophile world

I don't think it is an analog vs digital issue, as much as it is a statics vs dynamic issue. Analog vs digital seems to me like a personal preference more than anything. Statics vs dynamic analysis is more about a simple look at a problem, or a more complex look. They aren't mutually exclusive approaches, they just have different degrees of sophistication.

If one wants to opt for a bigger and heavier tool so that it better resists external forces, then that aligns well with a statics discussion. It means that a bigger and heavier vehicle (when parked, for example) is less likely to move when hit by a windstorm, or that when anchoring a boat, a bigger and heavier anchor better resists dragging. No argument here.

If we move to a dynamics discussion, with vehicles moving instead of being stopped, then handling, CoG, steering response, braking, and so on all come in to play. In that discussion, brute weight doesn't necessarily triumph, all the other factors come into play. If one has an absolute requirement to carry a ton of extra stuff in the tow vehicle, it is a straightforward choice. But if one doesn't have that requirement, then the larger heavier tow vehicle seems to be more of a personal preference than a requirement or safer choice. Sometimes a heavy tow vehicle can mask the feedbacks that come from a trailer being towed, but that doesn't make it safer or more solid, it just means that the operator doesn't feel the forces as much.

[pteck]

One is a tanker that steams resolutely forward.

The other is a tugboat with a bit more agility.

Just to add some levity
https://www.vrddit.com/?v=r/Instantr...omments/9trbph

[rmkrum]

“justice”

[sbowman]

Originally Posted by pteck

But to have them all on a road-trip. Guess there's a solution to that too in the form of having it all on a car hauler towed by an F550.

All on one road trip? I guess it depends on the level of adventure one is going on. "If one is not living on the edge then you are taking up to much space" quote on a no fear T-shirt..............


Best regards, safe travels, and be well

[bono]

Small brain, too much power, poor handing.

Originally Posted by pteck

One is a tanker that steams resolutely forward.

The other is a tugboat with a bit more agility.

Just to add some levity
https://www.vrddit.com/?v=r/Instantr...omments/9trbph

[pteck]

Yes, travel in the same vain as Land Rover. Part of the draw for me when traveling is to visit the back country when possible. I use my AS as a home base at destinations. I value reliability to always get me home though.

[RandyNH]

Originally Posted by sbowman

All on one road trip? I guess it depends on the level of adventure one is going on. "If one is not living on the edge then you are taking up to much space" quote on a no fear T-shirt..............


Best regards, safe travels, and be well

I believe that was a Nickleback song

[rmkrum]

“justice”

[sbowman]

Originally Posted by pteck

Yes, travel in the same vain as Land Rover. Part of the draw for me when traveling is to visit the back country when possible. I use my AS as a home base at destinations. I value reliability to always get me home though.

Attachment 326962
Attachment 326963

It appears a good set up for you and your family and works well where you live and travel to.



For Liz and I and living in the PNW our adventures range from 30 minutes to 4 hrs. sometime longer. Generally covers WA. & Oregon coast, AS adventure.



Into the mountains not AS territory unless you want to air lift it in. These adventures are demanding in type of vehicle required. These adventures are of tent and or off road tent trailers. Take a look at both NWOL.com & PCRC.net. These two groups are extreme OverLanders.



We are fortunate grand kids either 2 hrs South or 2 hrs North. 7.8 grandsons, 8th due early December. Each family has their own camping set up and so called toy's.


Long story short for us there are different degrees of adventures that require different set ups. What can I say, Liz keeps telling me you can't take it w/you when you die...............


Best regards, safe travels, and be well.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by bono

Hahaha, I have regular checkups with dentist, but decided that I do not want to see her more often

Both trucks were brand new in 2017 (do not remember whether model 17 or 18). If I do not like handling of the vehicle solo, I am not sure, how I would change my mind after connecting a trailer. A trailer will not miraculously change "imperfectly" handling vehicle into "ultimate driving machine".

Handling a larger AS behind a diesel F250 or F350 going up/down mountains with automatic engine brake and cruise engaged is really what I was referring to here, albeit I was not too clear. My point is, the power and braking combination with the 925lbs of torque in this beast are well matched for the task pulling the larger AS's. Hard to argue or convince anyone who hasn't driven this combination. 65mph on the highway going up 7% mountain at 1500 rpm's without straining. is very nice..Will other TV's do the job of "pulling"; of course...you can "pull" an AS with just about any vehicle...and I also understand the "fun" quotient when not towing...but, we typically carry kayaks, bbq, generator, extra propane bottle, camp gear and large 65 qt. cooler. We go out for longer periods and go from MT to TX and back...For us, my set up works well...just not as easy to park in parking lots and not as cheap as smaller gas powered vehicles to operate. We bought it for towing...it does that job very well.

[sbowman]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Handling a larger AS behind a diesel F250 or F350 going up/down mountains with automatic engine brake and cruise engaged is really what I was referring to here, albeit I was not too clear. My point is, the power and braking combination with the 925lbs of torque in this beast are well matched for the task pulling the larger AS's. Hard to argue or convince anyone who hasn't driven this combination. 65mph on the highway going up 7% mountain at 1500 rpm's without straining. is very nice..Will other TV's do the job of "pulling"; of course...you can "pull" an AS with just about any vehicle...and I also understand the "fun" quotient when not towing...but, we typically carry kayaks, bbq, generator, extra propane bottle, camp gear and large 65 qt. cooler. We go out for longer periods and go from MT to TX and back...For us, my set up works well...just not as easy to park in parking lots and not as cheap as smaller gas powered vehicles to operate. We bought it for towing...it does that job very well.

Well written, concur............


Best regards and safe travels

[Tenaya]

Aaaaargh!

[AlbertF]

Originally Posted by jcl

I don't think it is an analog vs digital issue, as much as it is a statics vs dynamic issue. Analog vs digital seems to me like a personal preference more than anything. Statics vs dynamic analysis is more about a simple look at a problem, or a more complex look. They aren't mutually exclusive approaches, they just have different degrees of sophistication.



If one wants to opt for a bigger and heavier tool so that it better resists external forces, then that aligns well with a statics discussion. It means that a bigger and heavier vehicle (when parked, for example) is less likely to move when hit by a windstorm, or that when anchoring a boat, a bigger and heavier anchor better resists dragging. No argument here.



If we move to a dynamics discussion, with vehicles moving instead of being stopped, then handling, CoG, steering response, braking, and so on all come in to play. In that discussion, brute weight doesn't necessarily triumph, all the other factors come into play. If one has an absolute requirement to carry a ton of extra stuff in the tow vehicle, it is a straightforward choice. But if one doesn't have that requirement, then the larger heavier tow vehicle seems to be more of a personal preference than a requirement or safer choice. Sometimes a heavy tow vehicle can mask the feedbacks that come from a trailer being towed, but that doesn't make it safer or more solid, it just means that the operator doesn't feel the forces as much.

Agreed. I spent many miles towing a 6000 lb (loaded) AS with a 3300 lb TV, with a high degree of stability and responsive handling. A car with fully independent suspension and a low centre of gravity can work extremely well. I have no desire to own a pickup.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Remember....

"The hardest thing about Airstreaming is clearing your head and accepting how others feel it’s supposed to be done"….
RLC

Bob
🇺🇸