What vehicle to tow a 2016 FC 28..

[Moflash]

[QUOTE=IAMGLG;1929525]I have pulled a 28foot CCD 28 international all over the USA and Canada with the engine you describe above with a 4 speed transmission and never lacked for pulling power, even with a trailer and 1500 suburbans (two on them, one disguised as an Escalade), both with a high speed rear end (3.73 as I recall, not a 4.11). fully loaded. The only challenges I ever had were in the very steep grades of the back roads of the Vermont mountains, but those too were handled. With the 6 speed or higher transmissions you have now you have even torque CAPACITY at the road because the gasoline engine is faster up INTO IT'S HORSEPOWER RANGE. So what if you have 1,000 foot pounds of torque available to you if you only need 300 foot pounds to accelerate the load. We are talking trucks and trailers here not locomotives and ships. All you need is what is required to do the job and, as a sidebar, gasoline engines these days with their fuel injection engines, properly maintained (like changing the oil periodically, will last you as long as you want to own the car


I also pulled our 28ft International CCD with a
Equivalent new 2010 F150 SuperCrew 5.4 Max Tow package 5.5 ft box with 3:55 axel. Pulled approximately 15,000 miles and while it could pull the trailer I could tell it's engine,suspension and brakes were taxed and near their design limits.

I traded it for a new 2012 F350 Lariat 6.7 turbo diesel Supercrew 8ft box with 3.55 axel.Wow complete change in the towing experience.Rode smoother,pulled easier with less gear changes.Much safer when merging and lane changing.Much more stable in all conditions.Mountain grades are not a problem with this truck.Pulled 30,000 miles

Traded for 2015 F350 6.7 Turbo diesel Platinum Supercrew 8ft box with 3:55 axel.
Big changes it was more powerful,quieter and even more pleasurable to travel in.Pulled approximately 35,000 miles

Ordered yesterday 2017 F350 6.7 Turbo diesel Platinum with Ultimate tow package ,3:55 axel and 8ft box.

Will not go back to a 1/2 ton platform gasoline powered tow vehicle to pull our 28ft International .If you are just a occasional short trip weekend Airstreamer it might work for you.But for people who want a tow vehicle that is truly purpose built and designed to pull a heavy tongue weight 28ft Airstream there is no equal to the Superduty platform with a turbo diesel.
Just my experience.

.They build different trucks for different applications.Some of the comments on this forum regarding the newer diesel trucks comes from lack of knowledge and understanding that comes with experience.

[IAMGLG]

[QUOTE=Moflash;1929782]

Originally Posted by IAMGLG

I have pulled a 28foot CCD 28 international all over the USA and Canada with the engine you describe above with a 4 speed transmission and never lacked for pulling power, even with a trailer and 1500 suburbans (two on them, one disguised as an Escalade), both with a high speed rear end (3.73 as I recall, not a 4.11). fully loaded. The only challenges I ever had were in the very steep grades of the back roads of the Vermont mountains, but those too were handled. With the 6 speed or higher transmissions you have now you have even torque CAPACITY at the road because the gasoline engine is faster up INTO IT'S HORSEPOWER RANGE. So what if you have 1,000 foot pounds of torque available to you if you only need 300 foot pounds to accelerate the load. We are talking trucks and trailers here not locomotives and ships. All you need is what is required to do the job and, as a sidebar, gasoline engines these days with their fuel injection engines, properly maintained (like changing the oil periodically, will last you as long as you want to own the car


I also pulled our 28ft International CCD with a
Equivalent new 2010 F150 SuperCrew 5.4 Max Tow package 5.5 ft box with 3:55 axel. Pulled approximately 15,000 miles and while it could pull the trailer I could tell it's engine,suspension and brakes were taxed and near their design limits.

I traded it for a new 2012 F350 Lariat 6.7 turbo diesel Supercrew 8ft box with 3.55 axel.Wow complete change in the towing experience.Rode smoother,pulled easier with less gear changes.Much safer when merging and lane changing.Much more stable in all conditions.Mountain grades are not a problem with this truck.Pulled 30,000 miles

Traded for 2015 F350 6.7 Turbo diesel Platinum Supercrew 8ft box with 3:55 axel.
Big changes it was more powerful,quieter and even more pleasurable to travel in.Pulled approximately 35,000 miles

Ordered yesterday 2017 F350 6.7 Turbo diesel Platinum with Ultimate tow package ,3:55 axel and 8ft box.

Will not go back to a 1/2 ton platform gasoline powered tow vehicle to pull our 28ft International .If you are just a occasional short trip weekend Airstreamer it might work for you.But for people who want a tow vehicle that is truly purpose built and designed to pull a heavy tongue weight 28ft Airstream there is no equal to the Superduty platform with a turbo diesel.
Just my experience.

.They build different trucks for different applications.Some of the comments on this forum regarding the newer diesel trucks comes from lack of knowledge and understanding that comes with experience.

It looks to me from your purchase of 3 or 4 tow vehicles in 6 years or so that you weren't satisfied with any of the trucks you have purchased. It comes down to how you drive and how much acceleration you think you need. I have 150,000 miles on my trailer and over 200,000 miles on each of my "1500's", I drive 55 to 60 and settle for 45 up steep inclines like found in coming out of Yellowstone. The tires (and axles and suspension) on the CCD 28 are trailer tires and shouldn't be driven over 60 mph. You may well be able to accelerate to 75 mph in less than 7 seconds with the various rigs you have described but my experience (and many others who have rigs similar to mine) says that the 1500s will do a very good and safe job. On the original thread, I don't know why one would need a 6 or 8 speed transmission on a diesel engine of the same horsepower as a gasoline engine for the same application unless you wanted to get to 75 mph in less time, the diesel doesn't need as many gears as a gas engine to deliver the same torque to the drive wheels because of it's low speed torque capabilities and electrical motors, (unless field weakened DC or higher frequency than base frequency - AC) give constant torque throughout their speed range, would be even better.

[tjdonahoe]

In above article concerning the gear ratios, 4.11 is lower than 3.73...moons ago a now decieced friend pulled a tandem axle reefer loaded with swinging meat from a packing plant here in Billings to LA,Cal.The power unit was a Chevrolet with a 6 cylinder gas engine, it took 7 days to round it, 2 men, non stop..now it is done in 1/2 the time with twice the load with 6 cylinder Diesel engines...progress ...

[Moflash]

[QUOTE=IAMGLG;1929842]

Originally Posted by Moflash

It looks to me from your purchase of 3 or 4 tow vehicles in 6 years or so that you weren't satisfied with any of the trucks you have purchased. It comes down to how you drive and how much acceleration you think you need. I have 150,000 miles on my trailer and over 200,000 miles on each of my "1500's", I drive 55 to 60 and settle for 45 up steep inclines like found in coming out of Yellowstone. The tires (and axles and suspension) on the CCD 28 are trailer tires and shouldn't be driven over 60 mph. You may well be able to accelerate to 75 mph in less than 7 seconds with the various rigs you have described but my experience (and many others who have rigs similar to mine) says that the 1500s will do a very good and safe job. On the original thread, I don't know why one would need a 6 or 8 speed transmission on a diesel engine of the same horsepower as a gasoline engine for the same application unless you wanted to get to 75 mph in less time, the diesel doesn't need as many gears as a gas engine to deliver the same torque to the drive wheels because of it's low speed torque capabilities and electrical motors, (unless field weakened DC or higher frequency than base frequency - AC) give constant torque throughout their speed range, would be even better.

I trade every two to three years to minimize the cost of Airstreaming.Driving a $50k-$78k tow vehicle into the ground until its value is next to nothing is not in my idea as a good financial decision.Plus we don't enjoy traveling in a worn out vehicle knowing we can be standing on the side of the road facing a huge repair bill.Been there done that.
My trucks are cleaner than the new one when I go to pick it up.I do all the scheduled maintenance at my Ford dealer so they give me maximum value when I trade.It costs me very little to have a new tow vehicle every two to three years.
Regarding power, I choose a vehicle that is best suited and designed for the job at hand.
You stating that it's not needed to have this much torque and power.But I choose to maintain the posted speed on mountain inclines and to merge safely onto a interstate with traffic exceeding 70mph.I do not enjoy being the guy holding up traffic or merging into 70mph traffic at 45mph because I chose a anemic underpowered overloaded tow vehicle to prove a point.
I threw away the Chinese wheel bearings and Goodyear Marathon "trailer tires" and installed 16' Michelin Ribs and upgraded the wheel bearings to USA made Timken bearings.The axels on a Airstream are more than adequate for higher speeds than 60mph.I also over service my Airstream and maintain it properly.Add a AirSafe hitch and the trailer is very manageable and stable with the right tow vehicle.I am a firm believer in common sense and maintain a safe distance from other vehicles.Road conditions pay a important role in higher speed towing also.

I am very satisfied as stated with my tow vehicles but what you and others don't seem to understand is vehicle technology evolves quickly and prices escalate each year.But if you order the right new vehicle with the right options and color,take better care of it than the next guy that u can keep up with technology and drive a new luxury tow vehicle every 2-3 years economically.Or you can fall behind and drive a worn out vehicle that has little or no value when trading time comes(and it will come) then hit the hip for $50k -$78k
So if a new black F350 SuperCrew with two Hobie kayaks and a CanAm atv pulling a 28ft Airstream passes you as your going 45mph up that mountain pass please know that I do respect your choices.Its just not my thing.......Safe travels

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by MelGoddard

And where does one plug in a twenty mile long extention cord, or find a garage when parked at roads end out in 'the Bush'?

No one in northern Canada ever solved that problem, right? Experience back into WWII available for your education. Internet makes it easy. But since you've a history of choosing lemons, . . .

[slowmover]

[QUOTE=IAMGLG;1929842]

Originally Posted by Moflash

It looks to me from your purchase of 3 or 4 tow vehicles in 6 years or so that you weren't satisfied with any of the trucks you have purchased. It comes down to how you drive and how much acceleration you think you need. I have 150,000 miles on my trailer and over 200,000 miles on each of my "1500's", I drive 55 to 60 and settle for 45 up steep inclines like found in coming out of Yellowstone. The tires (and axles and suspension) on the CCD 28 are trailer tires and shouldn't be driven over 60 mph. You may well be able to accelerate to 75 mph in less than 7 seconds with the various rigs you have described but my experience (and many others who have rigs similar to mine) says that the 1500s will do a very good and safe job. On the original thread, I don't know why one would need a 6 or 8 speed transmission on a diesel engine of the same horsepower as a gasoline engine for the same application unless you wanted to get to 75 mph in less time, the diesel doesn't need as many gears as a gas engine to deliver the same torque to the drive wheels because of it's low speed torque capabilities and electrical motors, (unless field weakened DC or higher frequency than base frequency - AC) give constant torque throughout their speed range, would be even better.

Wasting your breath. Or cramping typing fingers. Doesn't understand money or what constitutes "safe". Everything bought the past forty years was delivered by OTR trucks slow on the grades and slow in entering highways, etc. Poor brakes and incredibly unstable for those who've not driven them.

"Safe" isn't part of power versus load with these little trailers. Being frightened by new experience is common with RVers closed to skill acquisition. Tail-chasing bad assumptions is the result.

Suspension stability, steering and braking are what count. Power hasn't ever really mattered with these trailers. It was more than adequate in 1967 or 2017. The advances that matter have been elsewhere.

The confusion soothed by increased isolation is the fig leaf.

The trailer by design is "better" than a pickup. That's the problem to address. Matching superior to inferior is a fools errand. Where a pickup is an income-producing asset is its justification. On every other score its a loser.

Note that the legions of pickup lovers haven't ever used a car to tow. Drill down to find out if even so it had a decent lash up. As 90% didn't, good luck. Absence of evidence does not a case make. Look hard enough and it can be found. Of course, an understanding of basic physics will also do.

Everyone starts somewhere.

[Moflash]

[QUOTE=slowmover;1930770]

Originally Posted by IAMGLG

Wasting your breath. Or cramping typing fingers. Doesn't understand money or what constitutes "safe". Everything bought the past forty years was delivered by OTR trucks slow on the grades and slow in entering highways, etc. Poor brakes and incredibly unstable for those who've not driven them.



"Safe" isn't part of power versus load with these little trailers. Being frightened by new experience is common with RVers closed to skill acquisition. Tail-chasing bad assumptions is the result.



Suspension stability, steering and braking are what count. Power hasn't ever really mattered with these trailers. It was more than adequate in 1967 or 2017. The advances that matter have been elsewhere.



The confusion soothed by increased isolation is the fig leaf.



The trailer by design is "better" than a pickup. That's the problem to address. Matching superior to inferior is a fools errand. Where a pickup is an income-producing asset is its justification. On every other score its a loser.



Note that the legions of pickup lovers haven't ever used a car to tow. Drill down to find out if even so it had a decent lash up. As 90% didn't, good luck. Absence of evidence does not a case make. Look hard enough and it can be found. Of course, an understanding of basic physics will also do.



Everyone starts somewhere.

What are you smoking?? lol

[MelGoddard]

Originally Posted by slowmover

No one in northern Canada ever solved that problem, right? Experience back into WWII available for your education. Internet makes it easy. But since you've a history of choosing lemons, . . .

Go back to sleep!

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by IAMGLG

It may be obvious but the reason companies are going to multi-speed transmissions is to get the engine to run faster to get it into it's most efficient speed. The old slog about diesels having constant torque across a wide speed range, while correct, is mitigated by gasoline engines with multi-speed transmissions. Diesels work great on boats and locomotives where no transmissions are involved because of their near flat and constant torque characteristics across their speed range. Gasoline engines with multispeed transmissions effectively put out the same torque as a diesel engine with lesser geared transmissions.

I have not seen any big gas engines in the big trucks moving freight across the country for quit a few years, torque? My ram is at 800 ft lbs, my cat in the KW is at 1850 ft lbs torque, explain this...

[IAMGLG]

Originally Posted by EarlM

I say a 2500 or a 3500 diesel or ford if you want to be safe.

To the gentleman who trades his diesel truck every other year: Bought a used 2001, 1500 Suburban in 2004 with 49,000 miles on it for $29,000. Still own it today with 203,000 on it with no significant repairs. If I sold it today I'd probably get $4,000 for it. Works out to $1,550 a year depreciation. Also, bought a 2004 Cadillac Escalade ESV with 50,000 on it for $30,000 in 2008. At 200,000 miles on it I probably could get $6,000 for it today. Works out to $1,850 per year depreciation. Don't plan to get rid of wither one till 250,000 on either. Both car's leather is in very good shape and work as new. How does that compare to the depreciation lost by trading in your truck every other year? I can easily afford any "truck" I want but I don't know why I would want to. As I said earlier (and I have been involved in life cycling engine test stands, both hot and cold) given the fuel injection "carburetion" on gasoline engines, and using synthetic oil, there is no reason they can't last hundreds of thousands of miles. And, the receiver on a 1500 Suburban and a 2500 Suburban are rated the same....and it isn't 500 pounds.

[IAMGLG]

Originally Posted by EarlM

I say a 2500 or a 3500 diesel or ford if you want to be safe.

To the gentleman who trades his diesel truck every other year: Bought a used 2001, 1500 Suburban in 2004 with 49,000 miles on it for $29,000. Still own it today with 203,000 on it with no significant repairs. If I sold it today I'd probably get $4,000 for it. Works out to $1,550 a year depreciation. Also, bought a 2004 Cadillac Escalade ESV with 50,000 on it for $30,000 in 2008. At 200,000 miles on it I probably could get $6,000 for it today. Works out to $1,850 per year depreciation. Don't plan to get rid of wither one till 250,000 on either. Both car's leather is in very good shape and work as new. How does that compare to the depreciation lost by trading in your truck every other year? I can easily afford any "truck" I want but I don't know why I would want to. As I said earlier (and I have been involved in life cycling engine test stands, both hot and cold) given the fuel injection "carburetion" on gasoline engines there is no reason they can't last hundreds of thousands of miles. And, the receiver on a 1500 Suburban and a 2500 Suburban are rated the same....and it isn't 500 pounds, try 1500....with a service factor of 1.25.

[airwoody]

Was that Guy going 45 mph in my 28 ft CCD towed by 1500 Chevy Suburban - not fun being that guy. Felt unsafe and decided it wasn't worth my family's safety. When I got home I ordered a 2017 GMC 2500 Duramax Denali

[IAMGLG]

Originally Posted by airwoody

Was that Guy going 45 mph in my 28 ft CCD towed by 1500 Chevy Suburban - not fun being that guy. Felt unsafe and decided it wasn't worth my family's safety. When I got home I ordered a 2017 GMC 2500 Duramax Denali

I drive 55 to 60 because it is safe. I could easily drive 65 to 75 in either my Suburban or my Escalade all day long, both cars have the power to do this. It gives the rubberneckers a chance to look me over. If you choose to drive a tow vehicle that weighs less than 1/2 the weight of the trailer being towed at 110 feet a second have at it, but please stay away from me. I suspect many put their rigs on cruise control at 75 and dream away, not me; I like to smell the roses along the way and actually see the scenery. The 45 was at Raton pass, and I passed a lot of tractor trailers along the way, and I can take any hill at 55 to 60 no problem and pass more tractor trailers.

[xrvr]

The difference in technology between my 06 dodge pickup and the new ones is astounding. Making it wors is my truck has no power door locks or windows, no cruise control or engine braking, a simple radio and a tow haul mode that just changes the shift points and can lock out od. Two different worlds. Too old and broke to get a new one.

[airwoody]

Before I got the AS I read alot about TV on this forum. and was planning to get a 23ft to match the capabilities of my 02 1500 Sub which has the Auto ride tow pacakage. One thing I remembered and was guilty of it was you will justify the TV you have. When I got the 28 I was told the Sub would be fine which it is, but pulling on grades could not keep up with the flow of traffic. On the way to Sedona AZ I had trucks with double trailers passing me with my rig straining to maintain speed. If I recall the GVWR on the CCD is 7600 on the Sub is rated for 7300 which is pushing limits. Oh I drive 55 live in CA and enjoy the smell of roses but I don't want to be pushing up daisies.
My question is what TV would you choose if you could have anything you want?

[Mergatroyd]

For towing I want a Freightliner. For daily driver I want a golf cart. This is my dilemma.

[AirstreamCSH]

Toyota Sequoia. Finest vehicle ever owned. Tundra is he pickup version.
I would have either but with a payload capacity north of 1800#
Got an F250 because What I wanted wasn't made.

[USAtraveler]

Originally Posted by IAMGLG

I drive 55 to 60 because it is safe. I could easily drive 65 to 75 in either my Suburban or my Escalade all day long, both cars have the power to do this. It gives the rubberneckers a chance to look me over. If you choose to drive a tow vehicle that weighs less than 1/2 the weight of the trailer being towed at 110 feet a second have at it, but please stay away from me. I suspect many put their rigs on cruise control at 75 and dream away, not me; I like to smell the roses along the way and actually see the scenery. The 45 was at Raton pass, and I passed a lot of tractor trailers along the way, and I can take any hill at 55 to 60 no problem and pass more tractor trailers.

Yikes! Someone who uses logic and common sense...what a rarity.

[Mergatroyd]

I, too, would like to tow the 28 with my SUV. Then when I get to where I'm going I will have my daily driver. I know people are towing the 28 with a lot less than this, but when I plug the numbers into my loading spreadsheet I can't stay within the car's payload limits without shifting all my cargo to the back of the trailer and running light on the tongue. I can get I little more than the minimum 10% hitch weight if I do this balancing act, but I'd feel better with 12%. 1/2 ton pickups are only marginally better but I would still have to worry about load distribution to stay within spec. The 28 really calls for a 3/4 ton, but now it's a problem for the wife to drive it around town every day.

[FCStreamer]

I disagree. You need the 3/4 ton if you can't manage to stay within the payload limits of the SUV, yes. For most couples this is imminently doable. I even have have a EU2000 generator on the tongue of my 30' AS and I am under a couple hundred pounds of my rear axel rating.

I also want to bring my golf cart around. For THAT I will need a 250/350. But short of that a 1/2 ton and many SUVs are perfectly SAFE and fine, even up the Ike Gauntlet.

I know a lot of people drive big trucks daily. Good for them. I can't. My condo won't allow it. So I pull with a SUV and like happily in my condo. Best of both worlds.