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Old 12-08-2018, 10:48 AM   #41
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The OP succeeded in getting the usual off the track truck vs car battle going.

Interesting they don't have a great handling, low CJ trailer with torsion suspension to go with their great handling TV.
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Old 12-08-2018, 12:25 PM   #42
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Pretty sure the engineers at Ford, GM etc know their stuff when it comes to tow ratings. Certainly they know more than me...
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I take tow ratings from manufacturers with a huge grain of salt after the tow rating wars of the 2000's. Dodge would add 500lbs to their half ton, shorty matched by Ford and GM with no discernable redesign or beefing up of components. It was the marketing bean counters that drove that insanity.
Also it is a well known fact that tow ratings were purposely low for certain vehicles, so not to encroach on very profitable truck sales. Witness the deaths of the NA domestic sedan.

For example, my 2003 Chevy Tracker LT with the V6 has a tow rating of 1,500 lbs, where as the Suzuki Grand Vitara; same engine, same transmission, same rear end, but slightly bigger front brakes and 16" rims, versus my Trackers 15" wheels, has a tow rating of 3,500 lbs.

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Old 12-08-2018, 12:58 PM   #43
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In spite of much of the opinion on this forum, “payload” capacity CAN be practically tweaked more than just a little with a good WD hitch. (Which is why WD exists)

People can, and most likely will disagree with me about that, but in the end I’m still going to be right whether I answer them or not.
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Old 12-08-2018, 01:09 PM   #44
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Payload cannot be changed, but a WD hitch will shift the hitch weight to the TV front axle and trailer axles. The weight moved to the trailer axles is deducted from the weight counted as payload. Weight moved to the front axle has no impact on payload. WD will have an impact on axle weight.
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Old 12-08-2018, 01:31 PM   #45
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This thread is turning into most other threads, it’s no different then comparing swords in the locker room. It’s frankly pathetic that people come off like this. As a new person to this board I see it over and over.So much misinformation. Unibodies are bad, what? My ford transit van is a unibody and it tows fine-and would and will tow the air stream no problem. This unibody also has a 3500 lbs capacity as well. I bet f250 isn’t that high.

I saw a video where they showed Jay Leno and the CEO of airstream talking about their new land yacht trailer. Jay asked if the airstream would need an F250 to tow and the CEO said that actually the F150 is the ideal truck to tow any of their trailers.

I think it would be helpful if people thought a litttle bit about the info they post before they post it. Keep an open mind etc. At this point it seems like there are a lot of curmudgeons on here, interspersed with a fair number of level headed people.
https://youtu.be/6Vi37dKPCrg

A CEO of any company is looking out for their product. Even if he thought an F250 would be better he would never say so. The F150 I think is the best selling truck. He would not be doing his company any service to tell everyone you need an F250. Many can't afford one or they live in places where it is not practical. As well, of course you could tow with an 150. Is it ideal - only you can make that decision.

Your definition of a curmudgeon and a level headed person is probably different than others. When you believe something strongly you try to get your point across. Most unibodies aside from yours are a whole other ball of wax and that person was probably talking generally and not your specific vehicle. Like my F250 is a detuned F350 with one leaf spring missing so if you tired to put my F250 into the 250 payload class you would be mistaken.

As far as Can-Am goes. I think Andy is great and we bought our Airstream from him. He is a genuine nice man who would do anything for you. However, I do not agree with his towing ideas and there are some at Can Am that don't as well. Each to his own. I personally think Trump is fantastic and I am sure some think he is the devil. So be it. If we were all the same the world would be pretty boring.

Life is do it yourself project and I live the way I want to and drive what I want to and that is why I am so grateful to be in the land of the free and if I come across as a curmudgeon than that is your issue and not mine.
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Old 12-08-2018, 01:41 PM   #46
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As an engineer, payload is not quite what most believe. Payload is often a function of spring rates as much as everything else. And spring rates are more often than not dictated by the desired ride quality. Which is why from compact car to big truck, you'll find on average, most vehicle payloads to be in the low to middle 1000 range.

Click image for larger version

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https://jalopnik.com/this-mahindra-o...d-c-1822977934

It's obvious we see HD trucks have much higher payloads. Yes, partially structure. But primarily because of the stiff springs that are acceptable to owners of these vehicles, with the big trade being ride. Truck people might say trucks ride great, but that's because they're willing to accept that compromise to get higher payloads as the primary role is to be a beast of burden. Nothing wrong with HD trucks. They serve a need that many have.

Like Andy does for hitch's, most vehicles can just as easily be augmented for more payload. With an uprated spring.

Sure, there are other considerations. The performance envelop of a vehicle to support higher payloads and hitch loads should always be considered. In the US, we have big hills and great stretches of freeway.

Europe might not be a great analogy. Nor Asia. Australia is much closer.

At the same time, we layman on these boards conflate everything and we talk past each other. HD trucks are a solution. With compromises. SUVs can surely be a solution too, with compromises. Every single vehicle, even down to it's configuration has pros and cons. Then there are the personal needs. What works for one may not work for the other.

Suffice to say, details matter here to the individual and cannot always be summarized by diesel, propride, and "more/bigger". To do that dismisses the personal needs, which leads to a frustrating and unproductive conversation. Like the ones we often have here.
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Old 12-08-2018, 02:22 PM   #47
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Kinda reminds me of the mid eighties single rear wheel 1 ton Toyota diesel pick ups; dead nuts simple and reliable as hell.

I did a co-op program with an electrician on Saltspring Island in early grade 10, who used Ford 250's as work trucks. He had only recently bought one of these Toyota 1 ton diesel pick ups, to which one of his employees had poo-pooded it mercilessly.......until he drove it. It didn't take him long to be a convert and proclaim that little truck to be the best truck he had ever driven. It could take more payload than the Ford's and used 1/2 the fuel, plus get into the tightest spaces with a small turning circle.

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Old 12-08-2018, 07:34 PM   #48
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Tony, I do so wish Toyota would come up with a solid diesel truck for the USA market. I’d get one for sure. In the meantime I’ll just struggle through with my Tacoma and eventually go to a Tundra. Toyota can’t be beat on reliability or durability in my opinion...and since DW won’t let me buy anything else, I’ll stay a happy camper...
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Old 12-09-2018, 04:58 AM   #49
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1 month, 6000 miles, first time to west coast, towing less than I year. Our MDX has 110,000 miles on it as well. So good point, we’ll see how well it does in the durability department. While it’s paid for, parts aren’t cheap!
My last ram as I said had 110,000 all towing...our last trip to Nova Scotia was 7200 miles..keep track of the towing ...it will be interesting
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Old 12-09-2018, 05:50 AM   #50
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As an engineer, payload is not quite what most believe. Payload is often a function of spring rates as much as everything else. And spring rates are more often than not dictated by the desired ride quality. Which is why from compact car to big truck, you'll find on average, most vehicle payloads to be in the low to middle 1000 range.

Attachment 329331
https://jalopnik.com/this-mahindra-o...d-c-1822977934

It's obvious we see HD trucks have much higher payloads. Yes, partially structure. But primarily because of the stiff springs that are acceptable to owners of these vehicles, with the big trade being ride. Truck people might say trucks ride great, but that's because they're willing to accept that compromise to get higher payloads as the primary role is to be a beast of burden. Nothing wrong with HD trucks. They serve a need that many have.

Like Andy does for hitch's, most vehicles can just as easily be augmented for more payload. With an uprated spring.

Sure, there are other considerations. The performance envelop of a vehicle to support higher payloads and hitch loads should always be considered. In the US, we have big hills and great stretches of freeway.

Europe might not be a great analogy. Nor Asia. Australia is much closer.

At the same time, we layman on these boards conflate everything and we talk past each other. HD trucks are a solution. With compromises. SUVs can surely be a solution too, with compromises. Every single vehicle, even down to it's configuration has pros and cons. Then there are the personal needs. What works for one may not work for the other.

Suffice to say, details matter here to the individual and cannot always be summarized by diesel, propride, and "more/bigger". To do that dismisses the personal needs, which leads to a frustrating and unproductive conversation. Like the ones we often have here.
I agree; all consumer products are engineered with a particular consumer in mind. Light pickups are primarily engineered to be family vehicles and ride is very important because most are used to commute far more than tow. The actual axle rating (axle alone) on my Tundra is twice the load with max load in the rear. I doubt it is unique. I paid for my engineering degree by working at the family auto shop where occasionally I would convert a Mercury Marquis or equivalent to tow a trailer by adding a trans cooler, brake controller, air lift springs (or more leafs) among other things. They seemed to work fine .
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Old 12-09-2018, 05:56 AM   #51
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Life is about choices ! Hey You can dig a 8’x8’x8’ hole with a spoon or a steam shovel !
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Old 12-09-2018, 07:10 AM   #52
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Talk about tiresome and down right arrogant, another plug for Can Am and ridiculing anyone choosing to tow with a truck. There are countless others out there businesses and individuals who are every bit as competent and intelligent about towing, setting up hitches, choosing gear and a suitable Tow Vehicle.
If you need to drive all the way to Canada to get help setting you up with your rig perhaps you should consider another line of recreation.
They are the closest dealer to northern Detroit suburbs so that’s where I go. Andy set up both my trailers and Hensley, even though I was towing with a giant F350. Several other large diesel trucks were also getting hooked up when I was there so apparently he doesn’t refuse service to truck guys. I have to go back and have the Hensley set up to the new Ram but for now I just hook up, make sure it’s level, and go.

What’s funny is I’ve towed all kinds of stuff literally across the country for 40 years and never needed anyone to set it up, never even knew what a Cat scale was until a couple years ago and I never had an issue. When I grew up there were actually gearheads who knew cars and had mechanical aptitude. Now everyone knows intimate insurance and legal rules and whips out spreadsheets but no one can eyeball the vehicle they are about to tow with and make the call on safety.
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Old 12-09-2018, 07:11 AM   #53
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I don’t get the prejudice against Can-Am and smaller tow vehicles on this forum. (And yeah it’s prejudice so don’t try and tell me it’s not)

It seems like any time anyone mentions any smaller tow vehicle, a certain segment goes all busybody and the thread dies.

Give it a rest guys and MAYBE Andy from Can Am and others will start posting here again for the benefit of the people who DON’T want a giant tow vehicle.
News flash, everyone of these threads starts with a glowing endorsement of towing with the smallest TV possible singing the praises of Can AM and finishes bashing in as many ways as possible towing with a pick up truck. These threads are regularly recurring.
I can't recall a thread on this forum promoting towing with a pickup and bashing those who choose the smallest TV and the services of Can AM.
I have no problem with a b usiness like Can Am advertising their services on this forum. Making negative statements about the largest segment of the towing community who chose to tow with a pick up truck is not smart business.
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Old 12-09-2018, 07:15 AM   #54
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In spite of much of the opinion on this forum, “payload” capacity CAN be practically tweaked more than just a little with a good WD hitch. (Which is why WD exists)

People can, and most likely will disagree with me about that, but in the end I’m still going to be right whether I answer them or not.
Just make sure that hitch is attached to something strong. WD puts a bending moment on the frame at the attachment points. Measure them and apply the mechanical advantage, divide by two, draw a couple arrows and you have a free body diagram...
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Old 12-09-2018, 07:24 AM   #55
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I agree; all consumer products are engineered with a particular consumer in mind. Light pickups are primarily engineered to be family vehicles and ride is very important because most are used to commute far more than tow. The actual axle rating (axle alone) on my Tundra is twice the load with max load in the rear. I doubt it is unique. I paid for my engineering degree by working at the family auto shop where occasionally I would convert a Mercury Marquis or equivalent to tow a trailer by adding a trans cooler, brake controller, air lift springs (or more leafs) among other things. They seemed to work fine .
In my mind and dare I say in many others as well I don't see driving a pick up truck a compromise. Between my wife and I we have a BMW 540 and Jaguar in the garage in addition to my F-250. I always prefer to drive my truck even simply making a quick run to the drugstore. (Or my 1998 Explorer Island beater.)
I have been enjoying driving pick ups for the last 40 years.
With that said I could care less what the next guys preference in vehicles is whatever floats your boat and the last thing you will ever find me doing is starting a thread on the subject.
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Old 12-09-2018, 07:28 AM   #56
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Tony, I do so wish Toyota would come up with a solid diesel truck for the USA market. I’d get one for sure. In the meantime I’ll just struggle through with my Tacoma and eventually go to a Tundra. Toyota can’t be beat on reliability or durability in my opinion...and since DW won’t let me buy anything else, I’ll stay a happy camper...
Maybe you should let “DW” drive an F250 Powerstroke or a new Ram Diesel, or even a new Hemi or 6.2 gas. First time she floors it and gets pinned to the seat maybe she’ll let you get one. Might not have the initial JD power ratings of the Toyota but the frame is heavier steel and will always win in a collision with a Toyota.

My ex didn’t like diesels. Current wife swears they stink but smiles every time she floors it to merge.
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Old 12-09-2018, 07:46 AM   #57
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What Europeans are towing with?

Quote:
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News flash, everyone of these threads starts with a glowing endorsement of towing with the smallest TV possible singing the praises of Can AM and finishes bashing in as many ways as possible towing with a pick up truck. These threads are regularly recurring.

I can't recall a thread on this forum promoting towing with a pickup and bashing those who choose the smallest TV and the services of Can AM.

I have no problem with a b usiness like Can Am advertising their services on this forum. Making negative statements about the largest segment of the towing community who chose to tow with a pick up truck is not smart business.


Why don’t you just ignore the threads about smaller tow vehicles and Can-Am and start or revive another thread about how your way is best then?

Andy has practically been browbeaten off of this forum, that’s not cool. He is a great source of “how to” for folks who want a smaller tow vehicle that has been driven off the forum by “the tyranny of the majority?)

Is it just me seeing it, or are there a lot of type A personalities who have been successful at life, who frequent this forum with the intent of “winning” the the debate about “the right way to Airstream”?

I’m not saying that we shouldn’t put our own opinions out there, but maybe we should do so in the right time, place, and tone.

A harsh tone generates a harsh response, and then so on and so on....
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Old 12-09-2018, 08:00 AM   #58
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I think whatever TV a person chooses will be based upon a multitude of factors such as amount of towing, where you are towing, and the kind of things you will be carrying while towing. I originally chose the F150 3.5 Ecoboost. I was new to the process. That was a common tow vehicle, and it made sense. And generally it works great. I drove a 3/4 ton and it was just too big. But since then I am wondering if the Expedition would be best suited for my wife and me. We like camping, but we don’t like driving long trips. It can easily tow my 28’ AS. Plus the Expedition has a lot of advantages over a pickup with regard to daily drivability. And my wife would feel more comfortable driving it around. Length of it not much different than our Pacifica van. My F150 is a long bugger to park when I get into parking lots.

Now if my wife and I liked to drive long trips through the mountains then a diesel or 3/4 ton gas might make sense. We would have to consider payload more. We’d need to more stuff to carry on longer trips. But that’s not us.

So all this debate about TV is often talking past each other. Everyone is different. That is the reason there are so many vehicles out there. Different strokes for different folks.
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Old 12-09-2018, 08:38 AM   #59
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In spite of much of the opinion on this forum, “payload” capacity CAN be practically tweaked more than just a little with a good WD hitch. (Which is why WD exists)

People can, and most likely will disagree with me about that, but in the end I’m still going to be right whether I answer them or not.

LOL. Saw a tee shirt yesterday " Your opinion matters just not to me".


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Old 12-09-2018, 10:09 AM   #60
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Just wondering, does anyone else share the driving with their spouse? My wife towed about half of the time on our trip and I could ride and enjoy the scenery more and also made for less fatigue. I hear opinions of the male drivers but how about the women who tow?
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