Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-13-2017, 08:26 AM   #101
Rivet Master
 
Vintage Kin Owner
N/A , N/A
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 989
Images: 1
Back in the days, they were towed with vehicles as powerful as your Jetta. Try towing a 34 Avion with your Jetta (Use your weight distribution of your choice) to see what a miserable experience it would be. You have to understand what is acceptable now is very, VERY different than what was acceptable 40, 50 years ago. My laptop is probably more powerful than the computers NASA used to go to moon. Would you use a laptop for a Mars trip? Sorry, but unlike you I don't believe WDH is a cure-all for all towing related issues. Laws of physics remain the same. WDH or not.
rostam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2017, 09:06 AM   #102
Rivet Master
 
2017 30' Classic
Anna Maria , Florida
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,642
Quote:
Originally Posted by wulfraat View Post
Agreed on the high center of gravity. I just moved up to a 30' international (from a 25) and tow with my QX (in the process of driving to Denver from Colonial in NJ).

QX has a 7,500lb Gross vehicle weight, 1,700lb payload, 121in wheelbase, upgraded tires with higher than needed load rating, 400hp and 413lbs of torque. Substantial Class IV hitch welded directly to the frame. Zero flex. I've got about 800lbs on the receiver after WD pushes some weight to the trailer axels (still looking for a CAT scale on hwy 80).

Tows really well - very stable up through 75mph. QX sits almost level (only a 3/4" difference in wheel well height front vs rear), great steering feel (managed to dial my equalizer in with only one adjustment - 2 additional washers for more weight transfer - after colonial's install hitch thanks to extensive experience with my 25')

Passing and getting passed by big rigs is no problem, don't get pushed around too much despite the huge surface area of the 30'. Curved contours of the airstream help to shed some of the cross winds as compared to white box trailers.

People often poo poo using large SUVs for towing bigger airstreams but I'd argue my QX does an equal or better job than most 1/2 ton pickups (has more power and payload capacity than many). Low center of gravity and independent suspension make for great handling and a super comfortable ride.
OK,
Your post was very informative about the usefulness, based on your personal experience of a large powerful SUV to tow a 30' AS.
Your last paragraph however was completely unnecassary.

I did't realize that this forum was daily contest or duel about whose set up is better, and why others are not in addition to making pointless assumptions. It is not helpful for a newbie in helping them to make a decision. On the contrary, it confuses them.
You have absolutely no idea of the depth and width of the life time experiences of the many participants of this forum regarding towing trailers, owning and operating a variety of tow vehicles.
franklyfrank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2017, 10:05 AM   #103
Living Riveted since 2013
 
Rocinante's Avatar

 
2016 Interstate Lounge Ext
Green Cove Springs , Florida
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 8,201
Blog Entries: 1
Weight distribution and anti sway equipment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
You have absolutely no idea of the depth and width of the life time experiences of the many participants of this forum regarding towing trailers, owning and operating a variety of tow vehicles.

You know the same applies to you, right?

There is a plentitude of passionately pronounced fact-free opinions, helping folks make uninformed decisions. Billions served, step right up and get yours today.

Would be nice if folks would stick to their experience - what they use, and how well it works for them, along with actual links to actual data and information, instead of the same set of folks getting angry over every slight and berating each other over and over, across the entire forum, in every thread about hitches, tow vehicles, tires, keeping the fridge running on propane while traveling, etc., ad infinitum.
__________________
Rocinante Piccolo is our new-to-us 2016 Interstate Lounge 3500 EXT
(Named for John Steinbeck's camper from "Travels With Charley")


Rocinante is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2017, 10:10 AM   #104
Rivet Master
 
Moflash's Avatar
 
2007 28' International CCD
Springfield , Missouri
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,423
Quote:
Originally Posted by gator.bigfoot View Post
What is truth? It seems to me you are just as guilty in distorting it. Why can't people just share their experiences without everyone criticizing everyone else. If you have never tried it then I don't think you have a right to judge.

Every one of these towing questions inevitably leads into this sort of debate and spirals out of control.

For the rest of us we just want to learn from people that have experience and what works for them. I just want to be able to make up my own mind, and not have others try to convince me that their way is the only way thank you very much. So why bash someone of a different opinion?
I have had two new 1/2 tons(F150's)and three new 1 ton(F350's) in the last seven years.I have pulled my 28ft Airstream with both platforms.We tow 15,000-20,000 miles per year on flatland and thru the mountains.We use our trailer and tow vehicle for much more than weekend camp outs.

My background:
Not to toot my own horn but I have been in the automobile business for over 40 years.I have ordered thousands of new vehicles.I also won the Chevrolet product knowledge challenge three years in a row.I am a member of the Chevrolet truck hall of fame and a diamond member of the Chevrolet Legion of leaders.I am also certified in ordering Medium and heavy duty trucks.
I might also mention I am a ASE certified technician.

But with all this I am still learning and gaining experience...........I do not believe in bashing anyone but will call BS when I see people stating incorrect information with zero background in suspension design or theory.
Sorry if I offended anyone
Moflash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2017, 10:25 AM   #105
3 Rivet Member
 
dvgofaz's Avatar
 
2005 34' Classic
tucson , Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 160
Images: 5
I really enjoy reading these conversations on towing and hitches. Whatever the various points of view they always get me me thinking about how I tow and tow safely.

After 30 minutes of reading I am reminded of a John Maxwell story about a CEO who summed up a meeting that really didn't accomplish much. He said something like 'I'm glad we had a chance to go over all this information. We came to this meeting confused, and now that we've had a chance to talk things through I feel like we are still confused, but at a much higher level.'
dvgofaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2017, 10:41 AM   #106
2020 Globetrotter 25 FBT
 
GettinAway's Avatar
 
2020 25' Globetrotter
Wildwood , Missouri
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,589
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvgofaz View Post
I really enjoy reading these conversations on towing and hitches. Whatever the various points of view they always get me me thinking about how I tow and tow safely.

After 30 minutes of reading I am reminded of a John Maxwell story about a CEO who summed up a meeting that really didn't accomplish much. He said something like 'I'm glad we had a chance to go over all this information. We came to this meeting confused, and now that we've had a chance to talk things through I feel like we are still confused, but at a much higher level.'
That's great! Ha! I think it applies here. All but the "much higher level" part.

What did they tow those big Avions with when they originally came out!
__________________
2020 25GT FBT
2012 Toyota Tundra Dbl Cab, 5.7 4x4

Previous AS trailers: (04) 19’ Bambi, and (11) FC 23FB
GettinAway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2017, 11:00 AM   #107
Rivet Master
 
2017 30' Classic
Anna Maria , Florida
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,642
Quote:
Originally Posted by wulfraat View Post
Agreed on the high center of gravity. I just moved up to a 30' international (from a 25) and tow with my QX (in the process of driving to Denver from Colonial in NJ).

QX has a 7,500lb Gross vehicle weight, 1,700lb payload, 121in wheelbase, upgraded tires with higher than needed load rating, 400hp and 413lbs of torque. Substantial Class IV hitch welded directly to the frame. Zero flex. I've got about 800lbs on the receiver after WD pushes some weight to the trailer axels (still looking for a CAT scale on hwy 80).

Tows really well - very stable up through 75mph. QX sits almost level (only a 3/4" difference in wheel well height front vs rear), great steering feel (managed to dial my equalizer in with only one adjustment - 2 additional washers for more weight transfer - after colonial's install hitch thanks to extensive experience with my 25')

Passing and getting passed by big rigs is no problem, don't get pushed around too much despite the huge surface area of the 30'. Curved contours of the airstream help to shed some of the cross winds as compared to white box trailers.

People often poo poo using large SUVs for towing bigger airstreams but I'd argue my QX does an equal or better job than most 1/2 ton pickups (has more power and payload capacity than many). Low center of gravity and independent suspension make for great handling and a super comfortable ride.
OK,

Your post was very informative regarding your experience, towing a 30' AS with a large powerful SUV. However your last paragraph was opinionated conjecture and unnecessary. It would at best confuse at worst prejudice a newbie looking for information to make a decision.
Besides you have no clue to the depth of experience gained over a lifetime towing many different trailers with as many varied tow vehicles by a good number of participants on this forum.
franklyfrank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2017, 11:09 AM   #108
Rivet Master
 
2017 30' Classic
Anna Maria , Florida
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,642
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAtraveler View Post
I am torn every time I'm tempted to agree with either the light duty vs heavy duty truck faction. On the one hand I know that a 1/2 ton truck with available factory towing options and some relatively inexpensive mods is capable of towing just about any AS trailer....so long as the operator is willing and able to drive his (or her) TV within legal limits and exercises careful, common sense driving habits. Mostly what I see, though, are owners who have succumbed to the false notion that a light duty TV is only driveable if its saddled with expensive (and questionable) aftermarket towing devices.
I also recognize that some owners, either thru inexperience or lesser driving skills, get uncomfortable when they can "feel" that trailer behind them. Their stories are posted here any time the topic comes up; explaining how much safer, capable, and pleasant it is to tow with a HD truck.
By their own admission some of these owners are saying this because they choose to push the margin of reasonable towing practice, such as going way to fast for road and/or weather conditions. From an environmental standpoint, these HD tow vehicles, especially the diesels, are a pollution disaster. New technologies hold the prospect of making these high consuming fossil fueled HD vehicles obsolete, the sooner the better.
FYI,

Modern diesels are no more polluting than a comparably seized gas engine. And before you get to carried away, remember that every item you consume was brought to the grocery store or delivered to your door by a powerful efficient diesel engine truck, driven by a hard working driver. It will be many lifetimes before the IC engine is displaced by a non fossil fuel motor.
And please explain how your comment helps someone searching for advice about what hitch and TV would serve their needs the best.
franklyfrank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2017, 11:51 AM   #109
Living Riveted since 2013
 
Rocinante's Avatar

 
2016 Interstate Lounge Ext
Green Cove Springs , Florida
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 8,201
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
Besides you have no clue to the depth of experience gained over a lifetime towing many different trailers with as many varied tow vehicles by a good number of participants on this forum.
Again, I remind you that you suffer from the same limitation.
__________________
Rocinante Piccolo is our new-to-us 2016 Interstate Lounge 3500 EXT
(Named for John Steinbeck's camper from "Travels With Charley")


Rocinante is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2017, 11:54 AM   #110
Living Riveted since 2013
 
Rocinante's Avatar

 
2016 Interstate Lounge Ext
Green Cove Springs , Florida
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 8,201
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
FYI, Modern diesels are no more polluting than a comparably seized gas engine.

Maybe yes, maybe no, but without appropriate citation, what we have here is another fact-free opinion.
__________________
Rocinante Piccolo is our new-to-us 2016 Interstate Lounge 3500 EXT
(Named for John Steinbeck's camper from "Travels With Charley")


Rocinante is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2017, 01:13 PM   #111
Rivet Master
 
Moflash's Avatar
 
2007 28' International CCD
Springfield , Missouri
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,423
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAtraveler View Post
I am torn every time I'm tempted to agree with either the light duty vs heavy duty truck faction. On the one hand I know that a 1/2 ton truck with available factory towing options and some relatively inexpensive mods is capable of towing just about any AS trailer....so long as the operator is willing and able to drive his (or her) TV within legal limits and exercises careful, common sense driving habits. Mostly what I see, though, are owners who have succumbed to the false notion that a light duty TV is only driveable if its saddled with expensive (and questionable) aftermarket towing devices.
I also recognize that some owners, either thru inexperience or lesser driving skills, get uncomfortable when they can "feel" that trailer behind them. Their stories are posted here any time the topic comes up; explaining how much safer, capable, and pleasant it is to tow with a HD truck.
By their own admission some of these owners are saying this because they choose to push the margin of reasonable towing practice, such as going way to fast for road and/or weather conditions. From an environmental standpoint, these HD tow vehicles, especially the diesels, are a pollution disaster. New technologies hold the prospect of making these high consuming fossil fueled HD vehicles obsolete, the sooner the better.
Once again you are miss informed a 3/4 or 1 ton is a light duty truck and not even considered to be a medium duty truck.

The new ultra low emission diesel engine emit just water vapor and ammonia.

It is the opposite of what you stated a experienced and mechanically inclined driver can feel when the tow vehicle of choice is at is limits in suspension,braking,and its engines capability.I can personally attest to the fact as I have driven on virtually all the major racetracks in the USA and a few famous ones in Europe driving some of the fastest cars in the world.Lamborghini,Ferrari,Porsche etc..
You can build install a wd hitch to transfer the load and level your tow vehicle but there is a design limit to the amount of weight you can safely put on that 1/2 ton vehicles suspension,I don't care what option package you have.I have towed my current Airstream with both 1/2 and a 1 ton.

The new 2017 F150 and F250 and its F350 variant share the exact same cab the main differences are a fully boxed frame for more capable loading without flexing with a heavier tongue weight trailer this is a plus wouldn't you say?.Larger axles and differentials for pulling additional weight.Progressive springs with higher spring rates that increase as they compress for towing heavier trailers more smoothly and comfortably along with all upgraded suspension pieces designed with more aggressive towing in mind.HD transmission with larger cooler along with a increased capacity oil cooler. Larger increased capacity radiator and cooling fan.Larger disc brakes and upgraded baking system.HD receiver hitch designed for heavier tongue weights.8 bolt higher capacity wheels designed for heavier loading. Just to name a few.....

To say there is no need for this type of vehicle is laughable!Just think of it as a more capable F150 built for towing because in reality that is what it is..

Until Elon Musk introduces a comparable Tesla unit(and he will) this is as good as it gets for heavier tongue weight trailers! I will own one when that happens!
Moflash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2017, 02:38 PM   #112
jcl
Rivet Master
 
Currently Looking...
Vancouver , British Columbia
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moflash View Post
The new ultra low emission diesel engine emit just water vapor and ammonia.
That simply isn't true. Yes, there is ammonia and water vapour emitted as a result of the SCR, but also a host of harmful substances, including carcinogens and smog creating NOx.

LEV is an emissions standard. An average.
ULEV is 50% better.
SULEV is 90% better
ZEV has zero emissions. By definition, an ULEV is not a zero emissions vehicle.
jcl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2017, 02:50 PM   #113
jcl
Rivet Master
 
Currently Looking...
Vancouver , British Columbia
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,579
Quote:
Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
FYI,

Modern diesels are no more polluting than a comparably seized gas engine.
If that was true VW, Mercedes, and Ram would still be selling the same Diesel engines they offered in previous years, but which can't meet current emissions standards in the real world, at least at a competitive price point. While gasoline engines in the same vehicle can do so.

In Europe they have had more relaxed standards for emissions from Diesel engines, to get the fuel economy benefits. Your quote suggests they don't need that lower bar.

And then we have the real world testing that shows that many diesels don't even meet the lower standard once they are off the dynamometer.

http://www.theicct.org/sites/default...s_20141010.pdf
jcl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2017, 03:03 PM   #114
Site Team
 
wulfraat's Avatar

 
2017 30' International
Broomfield , Colorado
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,555
Images: 1
Weight distribution and anti sway equipment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
However your last paragraph was opinionated conjecture and unnecessary. It would at best confuse at worst prejudice a newbie looking for information to make a decision.
Agreed Frank. In rereading my post I should have omitted that last paragraph which was just an opinion. It doesn't necessarily serve any value.




Quote:
Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
Besides you have no clue to the depth of experience gained over a lifetime towing many different trailers with as many varied tow vehicles by a good number of participants on this forum.

I'm not sure how you're coming to that conclusion but I certainly enjoy learning from this forum almost every day and also enjoy sharing my experiences for others to learn from.

Be safe out there… I'm driving across Nebraska right now hauling the 30' with a gentle 40 mph crosswind. Fun times.

PS - went over the CAT scales twice on this trip -once with and once without the trailer connected via weight distribution. All the numbers look great, all well within the published limits of the vehicle (GVWR, GAWR (f/r), CGWR, tongue weight on the receiver, tire load range @ max cold PSI, etc.)

Attached are the numbers if anyone is interested. (CGWR in the line item below should actually read CWR) gross combined is well over 14k lbs...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1105.JPG
Views:	261
Size:	168.6 KB
ID:	287502  
wulfraat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2017, 06:37 PM   #115
Rivet Master
 
2015 30' FB FC Bunk
Ayer , Massachusetts
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,114
I like the guy a few years ago that said his brake controller was made by Nike.

At least he was humorous.
Ted S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2017, 07:41 AM   #116
Rivet Master
 
2017 30' Classic
Anna Maria , Florida
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,642
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcl View Post
That simply isn't true. Yes, there is ammonia and water vapour emitted as a result of the SCR, but also a host of harmful substances, including carcinogens and smog creating NOx.

LEV is an emissions standard. An average.
ULEV is 50% better.
SULEV is 90% better
ZEV has zero emissions. By definition, an ULEV is not a zero emissions vehicle.
Zero emission anything is pure nonsense.
The Standards are set mostly based on hyped emotions and promoted by aggressive PC. Nothing created by a manufacturing process or using energy of any kind is a Zero emission creation.
Everything in the universe emits something.
franklyfrank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2017, 09:41 AM   #117
jcl
Rivet Master
 
Currently Looking...
Vancouver , British Columbia
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,579
Quote:
Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
Zero emission anything is pure nonsense.
The Standards are set mostly based on hyped emotions and promoted by aggressive PC. Nothing created by a manufacturing process or using energy of any kind is a Zero emission creation.
Everything in the universe emits something.
Tailpipe emissions, in case that wasn't clear.

Whatever the tailpipe standards are, do you concur then that diesels are emitting more than comparable gasoline engines, which was your claim above?
jcl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2017, 08:18 AM   #118
Rivet Master
 
2017 30' Classic
Anna Maria , Florida
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,642
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcl View Post
Tailpipe emissions, in case that wasn't clear.

Whatever the tailpipe standards are, do you concur then that diesels are emitting more than comparable gasoline engines, which was your claim above?

I am from the Midwest you are in Vancouver BC, I seriously doubt we could ever concur on any subject.
franklyfrank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2017, 08:30 AM   #119
ObviouslyKnot
 
james.mileur's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
KAILUA , HI
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 862
Interesting the range of Google articles on Diesel vs. Gas. More smog or more CO2 and this one claimed gas spewed more particulate than new diesels. Ah, the wonder of it all.
http://achatespower.com/are-diesels-...oline-engines/
__________________
James Mileur, HY80-2-Al,
2017 Classic Twin, 2016 RAM 3500 Megacab, ProPride hitch
james.mileur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2017, 08:39 AM   #120
Rivet Master
 
gypsydad's Avatar
 
2017 28' Flying Cloud
2014 25' FB Flying Cloud
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Georgetown (winter)Thayne (summer) , Texas & Wyoming
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,621
Anti-Sway or Anti-Diesel thread?

Somehow it seems we got off topic here?
__________________
Empty Nesters; Gypsies on the road!
2017 28' Twin Flying Cloud
2017 F250 King Ranch, 4X4, 6.7L, Blue-Ox WDH
Summer-Star Valley Ranch RV Resort (Thayne, WY); Winter-Sun City (Georgetown,TX)
gypsydad is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anderson Weight Distribution Anti-Sway Hitch vuch Hitches, Couplers & Balls 122 10-20-2020 01:58 PM
Anti-Sway Bar or WD with Anti-Sway for 19' FC? CanonFan Towing, Tow Vehicles & Hitches 32 09-20-2016 05:29 AM
anti-sway/weight distribution questions quincy799 Towing, Tow Vehicles & Hitches 24 09-12-2014 08:59 PM
Weight distribution & anti-sway hitches - What changed from the "old days"? Phoenix Towing, Tow Vehicles & Hitches 14 09-10-2014 05:50 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.